Applying drywall to boxed structures (old basement)

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ENIGMACODE

ENIGMACODE

New member
:rolleyes: Hello again to everyone .... :)

As I progress in the construction of my basement studio,
I'd like to get a few opinions on where to install drywall
in regard to boxing in old heating pipes.
(explanatory illustrations are below)

I've gotten some valuable information in the past from:
Rod Gervais,Innovations,Rick,and Frederick.

Rod Gervais outlined the CORRECT method in installing drywall:

Install the ceiling layer first - leave this 1/4 to 3/8" from the wall framing. Caulk this joint.
Install the wall layer...... leave this 1/4" to 3/8" from the wall/ floor/ ceiling - caulk this joint...... repeat this for the remaining 3 walls......
Apply a 1st coat of joint compound and tape to all joints except corners (those have the caulk)
Repeat the above........ just make certain that at the corner joints you are going to tape that the caulk is slightly recessed in the corners.

Now please refer to these illustrations for explanations:
http://home.ucwphilly.rr.com/livesound/3.jpg < Overview
http://home.ucwphilly.rr.com/livesound/1.jpg < Another Overview
http://home.ucwphilly.rr.com/livesound/2.jpg < One option
http://home.ucwphilly.rr.com/livesound/4.jpg < Another option

http://home.ucwphilly.rr.com/livesound/5.jpg < Iso Hangers

Perhaps it really doesn't matter (from an isolation view),
if I don't apply the drywall underneath the boxed frame????
Just leave the open boxed frame and apply the drywall to the
frame itself, and just make sure that I caulk ALL the
gaps BEFORE applying joint tape - following Rod's advice above
Know what I mean?

Thank you Thank you ...

Best Regards
Michael Fraticelli
ROCKON@ucwphilly.rr.com
 
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Yeah, Rod's advice of chaulking the joints make sense.

What doesn't make sense to me is not moving all the pipes together. Looking at your pictures I have the impression thats a bit of work, but doable. This way you only have one "box" covering pipes, and less acoustical "traps" between the pipes.

I've been slowly doing this in my basement... even though my studio is upstairs above the garage, simply to make the ceiling higher except along the perimeter of the walls of the basement. This way there is room for pool cues :)

PVC is easy to move, you cut it with a hacksaw, glue on a female to female collar, then glue on your elbows, moving it closer to the walls.
 
Thanx Frederic :)

;) Yes Frederic ....

Nice to hear from you!
Actually after many many posts back n forth with Rod, and you and Innovations, you may recall that this project of mine is more of a 'hobby-type music room' reasonably insulated acoustically, and built within a very modest budget and within very constricting structural circumstances.

It's the 'process' more than anything that's an enjoyable challenge to me.

You mentioned:
"What doesn't make sense to me is not moving all the pipes together. Looking at your pictures I have the impression that's a bit of work, but doable."

Yes anything is 'possible'
BUT
Trust me yes it's a MAJOR job to free up and cut those old cast pipes.
And again, the proverbial question ALWAYS comes down to: Is it REALLY worth the extra effort, and expense for a 'hobby-type music room'?

As I mentioned, due to the constricting structural circumstances, the going so far has not been a piece of cake ....MOST 'General Contractors' despise this type of 'Old Work' construction.....The PREFERRED method is NEW work - Constructing new framing members, within a nice NEW area where things can be adjusted and built STRAIGHT and TRUE ....

So under the circumstances, I think I'm doing pretty good so far ...

Your input and ideas are always GREATLY appreciated - good luck with your new family! :)

We'll talk again .... :)

Best Regards
Michael Fraticelli
ROCKON@ucwphilly.rr.com
 
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Hello Michael! Well I read your post but I'm confused as to exactly what you are asking? Arn't these pipes in your "studio"? What are you trying to do? I understand the boxing in but what is the problem?
fitZ
 
Michael,

Do not use the other option you indicate - this will create a triple leaf systen once you wrap the lower box.......... just treat the box as if it were the ceiling and you will be fine.

Rod
 
Hello again Rick!

;) Hey Rick Wassup?

How ya been bud? :p

Yes well, in my explanatory photos, I was trying to pose this question:
(I may have made it a little more complicated than necessary, but try to follow me) ok? :)

I have an 80 year old small 2 bedroom row home - although the house heater was replaced, the original piping is of course cast iron traveling to cast radiators in the house.

In building this all-purpose music room, I decided to box-in the existing pipes, rather than to cut them out, and replace them (a major headache :mad: )

Sooooo I was just wondering if it were better to totally encompass them with drywall - build totally around them with a box???

OR - just simply build the frame FIRST, (attached to the the wall, and ceiling frame members), THEN attach the drywall only to the surfaces of the constructed boxed frame..... know what I mean? Refer to my options:
http://home.ucwphilly.rr.com/livesound/2.jpg < One option
http://home.ucwphilly.rr.com/livesound/4.jpg < Another option

I think the important thing is that I implicitly follow Rod Gervais's directions in regard to applying drywall (his instructions are posted)
Soooo - all this having been said, ya think it's cool?

Best Regards
Michael Fraticelli
ROCKON@ucwphilly.rr.com
 
Hello Rod!

Great to hear from you! :)

How ya doing guy? :cool:

Sorry I think our posts got crossed. You mentioned:
"Do not use the other option you indicate - this will create a triple leaf systen once you wrap the lower box.......... just treat the box as if it were the ceiling and you will be fine."

Rod - I assume by your comments the 'other' option is this one:
http://home.ucwphilly.rr.com/livesound/4.jpg < So this is a 'NO GO'
http://home.ucwphilly.rr.com/livesound/2.jpg < This is a 'GO'
Correct?

Best Regards
Michael Fraticelli
ROCKON@ucwphilly.rr.com
 
Michael,

You got it - the drywall above the box is a no-no.

One thing you said however - "OR - just simply build the frame FIRST, (attached to the the wall, and ceiling frame members), THEN attach the drywall only to the surfaces of the constructed boxed frame..... know what I mean? Refer to my options:"

DO NOT ATTACH THE BOX TO THE WALL - treat it as an extension of the ceiling - maintain your clearances at the wall and caulk as with the ceiling.

Otherwise you are destroying the isolation between the wall and ceiling that you've woirked to attain.

Rod
 
DO NOT ATTACH THE BOX TO THE WALL - treat it as an extension of the ceiling - maintain your clearances at the wall and caulk as with the ceiling.
Click to expand...

HOWDY Gents!
Im glad Rod has a better memory than I do. :p Makes sense to me now. Nothing more to add except good luck to ya! Looks like your making more headway with your studio than I am. All my time goes into doing the same kind of stuff(sheetrocking etc) in my shop. I've started my own cabinet/woodworking business at home so that keeps me busy right now. Anyway, Rod pinned it down, which is good, cause I forgot about the wall/iso thing. Time for work, later Michael.
fitZ :)
 
ENIGMACODEmine is more of a 'hobby-type music room' reasonably insulated acoustically said:
Well, if its a hobby type room and you aren't looking for perfection, slap sheet rock over it then. Its all about cost versus what compromises you're willing to make. Like you, I went for "reasonable" and "affordable". What I have now, even unfinished, is 10000000000 times better than what I had before - which was an uninsulated, disintegrating garage loft with a free supply of nasty, mean, hungry carpenter ants, and one 15A circuit shared with about 2/3 of the house.

Anyway, you're right, a lot of plumbers dislike cast iron and make that known either by bitching or by adding surcharges buried in their bill. But you know what, it's not *that* unpleasant to work with and I've removed a lot of it from this house, not because it was bad or leaking, but rather it was in the way. Our basement has a 7' high tiled ceiling because of the 300 miles of copper and iron plumbing just above it, as well as all the electrical wrapped in between. I spent exactly 71 hours to redo the electrical wire routing along the back wall, and probably closer to 80 hours redoing all the plumbing. This allowed me to remove the drop tile ceiling, add a foot to the room height, and slather the ceiling with sheet rock for a really nice, smooth ceiling line as if the room was upstairs and part of the main house. Eventually I'll rip down the 62 year old nasty panelling stapled to the walls, and put up sheetrock on that as well.

Removing the copper was easy - sawzall :)

Removing the cast iron was more difficult, but with large pipe wrenches and an assistant, and bracing things before I loosened things up, worked out just fine. I replaced it with PVC using adaptors available at home depot, lowes, and ace hardware. All in all it wasn't anywhere near as bad as I anticipated, though the first day was a struggle because little progress seemed to be made, only because the maze of plumbing was ridiculous. For example, one copper line feeding a hose fawcett at the front of the house ran into the foundation, turned right, went over 6 feet, then turned left, to the back of the house, to tap a cold water pipe over there. Where the pipe came into the house, there's a cold water pipe right there. So, that was about 70 feet of copper plumbing wasted. The entire basement was like that. I cut out close to 500 feet I'd guess, maybe 600.

Also got scrap value for the cast iron pipes, hauling it off to a metal recycler rather than the local dump. The cleaner, nicer pieces of copper plumbing I kept in the attic, the rest of it I sold as scrap too in the same load. Every nickel helps.

Seriously consider it, having protrusions into your recording space is distracting, both psychologically and acoustically.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you Rod Gervais, Rick, and Frederick :)

:D

As per my 'Guru' Rod Gervais, I will isolate the side of the box structure that
faces the wall.

I will allow about 1/4" between that side of the box framing members, and the wall framing members, (just as I will the clearances in the installation of the drywall).

As I understand it, generally the WALLS and the CEILING are to be SEPARATED by that 1/4" or 3/8" gap. Then the gap is caulked BEFORE the first layer of tape, and joint compound in those corners .....

And in regard to ALL Frederic's hard plumbing work - I admire him immensely!
Yes Frederic as (Rod pointed out), what you've done in your room is a far cry from what it was before! :cool:

And again my thanks to all my buddies out there!
Wonder where all you guys are located?
(I know Frederic is in New York)

Best Regards
Michael Fraticelli
ROCKON@ucwphilly.rr.com
 
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