Apex 460 capacitor change?

  • Thread starter Thread starter EdgeGuy
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I got the double sided version, There's three leads coming off of it. So that's not it. Like I said, I wasn't planning on it to sound like anything in particular, but good.
 
The only reason I said that was because that was how Dave Thomas always compared them. He also said that John Peluso told him that Muscle Shoals was replacing the capsules in their vintage Tele U47s with CEK367s and loved them.

I've not read of anyone changing the value of C6, just putting a good cap in there.

Here's a new question, when you use the 34mm capsules you do have to get the Peluso mounts, right? I don't remember anyone ever talking about this added expense.

Lucio
 
amzavareei,

Glad it's the right one. It's a mystery to me, you shouldn't lose gain changing patterns. Mine doesn't change. Just try what you said and make sure everything's solid and in the right place.

Hope it gets figured out for ya.

Lucio
 
mbrebes,

I'm messing ordering caps right now with the intent on experimenting with C6 and C7. Would a higher value at C6 increase bass response?

Thanks,
Craig
 
C7 won't do anything. The rolloff is already set at 0.5 Hz, so increasing C6 shouldn't make a difference.

Regarding using the 32mm mount for the 34mm capsule, I found that mounting arc bends a bit, and I also cut away part of it so that I could get the 34mm capsule to mount okay. Otherwise I would have had to order a mount from Peluso, along with the capsule.
 
So far, I like the mic best without C6 or C7. This is compared to leaving in both stock C6 and C7, and with C7 only.
 
Did you notice a difference in the gain between the two?

Are you gonna spend the $11.00 to see how much better a Black Gate would sound in C6 or are you pretty happy without C6?

Lucio
 
I really like the sound without it, so I'm probably done with modding it.
I'll post a few clips of voice and guitar of this mic, an Apex 460 with a CEK 367 capsule, and a Neumann U87 Ai so you guys can make a very unscientific comparison.
Craig
 
Very cool. Looking forward to it.

I'm hoping to start modding mine soon, just waiting for the tax return to come in. I think I'll try it without C6 1st, but I may go ahead and get some Black Gates while I can, just in case.

Lucio
 
Do C1, C2 and C6 have to be electrolytic caps or can you use Mylar or Polystyrene in their place?

Also, mbrebes modifies the stock mount for the 34mm capsule, is that what mostly everyone does or do you order the Peluso mount?

Got the tax return today as it turns out, so I want to order everything at the same time from Peluso.

Thanks,

Lucio
 
If you check eBay, you can usually get a Peluso capsule for a bit cheaper. I saw the CEK367 for the old price minus atleast $10. He sells a number of items on eBay.
 
Yeh, those are good prices. Unfortunately, the CEK-12 was only $10.00 cheaper, so I went ahead and ordered it from Peluso. I wish I had the cash to get a couple others but I can't at this time (bummer).

The price of the Cinemag 2480 went up quite a bit. They're now $75.00. If you keep the cathode follower circuit, he has an 8:1 transformer called the BV11P which is cheaper. I'm thinking of using it on my TCM 1050 which, big surprise, I want to be my U47ish mic.

Incidentally, there's been some confusion about the capsules so I talked with John Peluso today about it and he told me that the CEK-367 is his U47 capsule. He said the geometry is the same, it's just that the body is 2 piece instead of one. He also said that the CEK-89 was basically designed to fit the chinese mic's and is voiced in the U87's direction. He did say that he has a more specific U67 capsule that they use in there mic's that isn't listed.

He is a really nice guy, I was surprised that he answers the phone himself.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to everything arriving so I can Have at it. My only problem is deciding on what size to use for C8. I know some have said that the mic lacked low end, but I think that was with the stock capsule. Also, the Ansar caps are out of the country and I'm sure no one's gonna ship two capacitors internationally. So I'm thinking Auricap, maybe. Should I use a 1.5uf or go with a 3.3uf like a Elam251? I even saw so early C12 schematic that had a 0.5uf in there. Decisions decisions.

Thanks again,

Lucio
 
You might want to email David Geren or Tom Reichenbach at Cinemag directly. I know you can get a better price by going to them direct.

www.cinemag.biz

Co to the "contact us" section.
 
Thanks Phil.

The only reason I went thru Peluso was because I was told I could get a better price thru him because he bought in such high volume. Oh well, live and learn. I'll try that with the next mic.

Lucio
 
LDT2 said:
If you keep the cathode follower circuit, he has an 8:1 transformer called the BV11P which is cheaper. I'm thinking of using it on my TCM 1050 which, big surprise, I want to be my U47ish mic.
Click to expand...

If you want to keep a CF you need more like 1:3, 1:4 ratio, at the most. Otherwise why would you want a CF? ;)

LDT2 said:
Unfortunately, the CEK-12 was only $10.00 cheaper, so I went ahead and ordered it from Peluso...
...Incidentally, there's been some confusion about the capsules so I talked with John Peluso today about it and he told me that the CEK-367 is his U47 capsule. He said the geometry is the same, it's just that the body is 2 piece instead of one. He also said that the CEK-89 was basically designed to fit the chinese mic's and is voiced in the U87's direction. He did say that he has a more specific U67 capsule that they use in there mic's that isn't listed.
Click to expand...

There is definitely some confusion here, magnified by Mr. Peluso's usual inaccurate and deceptive descriptions, served to misrepresent his products and make people believe of something what those products are NOT!!!

Let's see...
First, the only resemblance of his CEK-12 and original CK12 is unsupported diaphragm. The CK12 had a 5 chamber structure, while CEK12 has "Neumann" type of backplates. Those two are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ANIMALS.

Re: CEK367 and U47. The U47 used two capsules--PVC M7 and K47 (for U47FET). The whole idea of those is ONE PIECE backplate, instead of two. The CEK367 has a K67/K87 type of backplates, which is CONTRARY TO WHAT K47 IS ABOUT. WTF kind of geometry is he talking about???

And FWIW, neither CEK12, CEK367, or CEK89 diaphragms are even NOT GLUED!

Re: CEK 89--
Friend of mine ones purchased and brought to me for evaluation. There was NO SOUND DIFFERENCE between that one and usual Chinese 32mm stuff used in MXL mics and alike. Now, consider that you can get 3 MXL complete mics on sale from GC for the price of one CEK89 :rolleyes:

Re: "He did say that he has a more specific U67 capsule that they use in there mic's that isn't listed."

Yeah, ones he mentioned it to me, saying that it was his "special" capsule he made himself and he will do a "very good price for me". It was quite a few years ago. A couple years later I discovered that it was original, unmodified 797 capsule. And he asked me $160 for it (i.e. almost twice from what you can get it for).
One little detail--Mr. Peluso even did not have an idea that on that one the diaphragm actually WAS GLUED.

Best, M
 
Wow. That is definitely enlightening. I thought that maybe I could clear things up by relaying my conversation, but I was wrong.

M, thank you for your insight, as usual. It's greatly appreciated.
 
Very unscientific comparison of:
1. Apex 460-CEK367 capsule, new C8, C6 and C7 still in place, Cinemag 2480
2. Nady 1050-CEK12 capsule, new C8, no C6 or C7, cathode follower removed, Cinemag 2480
3, Neumann U87 Ai

Samples are recorded through a JLM Baby Animal with a JH 990 opamp and JLM 14 transformer at about 2 feet in unidirectional mode.

apex guitar
apex voice
nady guitar
nady voice
neumann guitar
neumann voice

Very different mics.
 
Marik said:
Re: CEK367 and U47. The U47 used two capsules--PVC M7 and K47 (for U47FET). The whole idea of those is ONE PIECE backplate, instead of two. The CEK367 has a K67/K87 type of backplates, which is CONTRARY TO WHAT K47 IS ABOUT. WTF kind of geometry is he talking about???
Click to expand...

This one had me scratching my head as well! :confused: :confused:

The M7 and K47 are similar in that the drill pattern is a radial design (like attached image). The CEK367 appears to have a grid drill pattern like the K67 and K87. A lot of this attributes the M7 with it's distinctive proximity effect, which is another feature that capsule is known for.

Also, the CEK367 is a 34mm capsule (1.1") and the M7 is a 1".

So, let's see:

1. two piece capsule instead of one piece.

2. Drilled vent patterns are not the same.

3. Capsule diameters are different.

That's 3 for 3 incorrect on geometry...

...and he says this is his U47ish capsule?? I know it's one he puts in his 2247s. This leaves me with a newly found weird feeling about Peluso. Maybe if I could talk to him he'd be able to put the record straight?
 

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PhilGood said:
This leaves me with a newly found weird feeling about Peluso.
Click to expand...

After he lied me about 797 capsule, pretending he made it himself, after I found that his CEK89 is a usual Shanghai 32mm you can get for $20 at the most, my feelings about Peluso are very definite.

Look at his advertising practices.
First, even with the numbering he implies and wants to make you believe of what his mics are NOT!
22 251-- "It captures the nuances of the original "251" sound."
with a Neumann style capsule vs. old CK12??? Or just look at the grill construction :rolleyes: Give me a break, Mr. Peluso.

22 47--not to mention the capsule, let's see what he writes:
We use a Telefunken Steel Tube in the 22 47 LE which works excellently in the circuit and provides the same sonic quality as the VF14. Each tube is selected individually and the selection parameters are the same or even better as Neumann used for the VF14. There are some tubes in the Telefunken Steel Tube family which are perfectly suitable to replace the old VF14 if they get an independent filament supply.
Technically the only difference in the tube used in the old U47 is that the one that we use has a separate filament supply coming from the power supply.

Just make a search for Oliver Archut posts about that matter on Klaus' forum.

Best, M
 
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