Anyone use one of these?

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arcaxis said:
Probably the only thing that's in the box is a potentiometer connected to the input and output jack. If you can solder it would be a super easy project, but....

"...to get that killer tube tone, you have to crank it--and now you're too loud"

Part of that cranked "killer tube tone" comes from driving the output tubes, which putting a control in line like that reduces that drive. If you've got a Master control on the amp, turning that down likely would give the same result. Similar to "Power Soak" - not.

preamp out >>>> effects chain >>>> volume box >>>> power amp in

I've not used one of these, but this is my spin on what I think the box does or doesn't do. If I built one I think I'd put a bypass switch in to give an easy way to change volume while playing.
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Wow, can't believe i didn't catch that. You're totally right. So basically there is no cheap route to a THD Hotplate? It is my understanding that the hotplate decreases the volume after the poweramp, or something to the effect that you can still achieve a driven poweramp sound.
Also, are you saying I can achieve this effect with a bypass switch? I'm pretty new to DIY stuff.
James
 
arcaxis said:
Power Soak and the THD Hotplate connect to the secondary side of the output transformer along with the speaker. Both of those devices absorb much of the output power and pass a small amount along to the speaker, thus you can drive the piss out of the output tubes and not have much volume come out of the speaker. Both the Power Soak and the THD Hotplate dissipate the absorbed power as heat.

The bypass switch I suggested would only allow you to quickly change the volume of a box like that was shown on ebay, nothing more.
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Gotcha. Thanks man, I guess I'll start searching ebay for a Hotplate.
 
If anyone is still viewing this thread, does anyone know of a cheaper power soak than the Hotplate? One that won't jack up my amp. I've read some horror stories of people using attenuators that weren't Hotplates and having some bad results.
James
 
arcaxis said:
Probably the only thing that's in the box is a potentiometer connected to the input and output jack. If you can solder it would be a super easy project, but....

"...to get that killer tube tone, you have to crank it--and now you're too loud"

Part of that cranked "killer tube tone" comes from driving the output tubes, which putting a control in line like that reduces that drive. If you've got a Master control on the amp, turning that down likely would give the same result. Similar to "Power Soak" - not.

preamp out >>>> effects chain >>>> volume box >>>> power amp in

I've not used one of these, but this is my spin on what I think the box does or doesn't do. If I built one I think I'd put a bypass switch in to give an easy way to change volume while playing.
Click to expand...

Right on the money. The phase inverter tube comes after the FX loop. Unless you drive that sucker hard you won't get a good tone. You will actually lose gain by putting one of those boxes in the loop.

http://www.tedweber.com/atten.htm
 
I love my HotPlate. I've never used a Weber but I've heard great things about them too. I'm not sure of the options available on a Weber as far as knobs and switches, but the HotPlate has deep and bright switches that you can turn on/off to compensate for the loss of those frequencies based on the amount of attenuation you use. Plus the HotPlate has 2 outputs (you can drive 2 cabs from 1 HotPlate) and a line output for post-amp effect placement, built-in noise reduction, a dummy load setting (basically a speaker defeat) and variable attenuation below -16 dB.

One word of advice though about attenuators, and that's to keep your expectations realistic. Yes they can bring a raging tube monster down to bedroom levels, but there's a cost as far as tone. The more you attenuate, the more your tone is affected. By the time you attenuate enough to play at midnight in your bedroom without waking the sleeping baby in the next room, your tone doesn't really resemble what you're used to hearing.

But to shave off -4 dB, -8 dB or even -12 dB, it'll do a great job and you'll barely notice the difference except for a few things: 1) Your speakers provide a dynamic or variable load to your output transformer. An attenuator is a static load, so it doesn't quite react to your playing like an unattenuated speaker does, and 2) your speakers add a little bit of breakup to your overall tone when you really get them moving. when you play at quieter volumes, you lose a lot of that speaker breakup. Not a huge deal but you might notice it. 3) one other thing is that while the attenuator itself isn't bad for your tubes, having your amp cranked all the time (as opposed to however often you crank it up currently) will shorten the life of your power tubes.

But all that aside, I still HIGHLY recommend getting an attenuator anyways. These detriments to your tone are small potatoes compared to the ability to really cook the power section of a tube amp. Having the master volume low and not really pushing your power tubes sounds so sterile compared to the dynamic range and punch available by really pushing the power section.

My 80-watt 2x12 tube amp would be nearly useless to me without my HotPlate since I play entirely in my basement of my house. I don't gig, but if I did it would still be a huge benefit for the ability to control stage volume. It's still loud when attenuated by -12 dB but it really takes the edge off of the volume and makes it tolerable to be next to while playing, and it tames it enough to make it easier to mic without clipping my mic preamps.

So whether you go Weber or THD, I don't think either will let you down. The THD has more options and I can personally vouch for their excellent build quality and great tone. But the Weber has price on its side. It's too bad that so few places carry them so doing a demo or side-by-side comparison will be difficult. See if you can buy from someplace with a leniant return policy and give them both a try.

Good luck!
 
Tadpui said:
I love my HotPlate. I've never used a Weber but I've heard great things about them too. I'm not sure of the options available on a Weber as far as knobs and switches, but the HotPlate has deep and bright switches that you can turn on/off to compensate for the loss of those frequencies based on the amount of attenuation you use. Plus the HotPlate has 2 outputs (you can drive 2 cabs from 1 HotPlate) and a line output for post-amp effect placement, built-in noise reduction, a dummy load setting (basically a speaker defeat) and variable attenuation below -16 dB.

One word of advice though about attenuators, and that's to keep your expectations realistic. Yes they can bring a raging tube monster down to bedroom levels, but there's a cost as far as tone. The more you attenuate, the more your tone is affected. By the time you attenuate enough to play at midnight in your bedroom without waking the sleeping baby in the next room, your tone doesn't really resemble what you're used to hearing.

But to shave off -4 dB, -8 dB or even -12 dB, it'll do a great job and you'll barely notice the difference except for a few things: 1) Your speakers provide a dynamic or variable load to your output transformer. An attenuator is a static load, so it doesn't quite react to your playing like an unattenuated speaker does, and 2) your speakers add a little bit of breakup to your overall tone when you really get them moving. when you play at quieter volumes, you lose a lot of that speaker breakup. Not a huge deal but you might notice it. 3) one other thing is that while the attenuator itself isn't bad for your tubes, having your amp cranked all the time (as opposed to however often you crank it up currently) will shorten the life of your power tubes.

But all that aside, I still HIGHLY recommend getting an attenuator anyways. These detriments to your tone are small potatoes compared to the ability to really cook the power section of a tube amp. Having the master volume low and not really pushing your power tubes sounds so sterile compared to the dynamic range and punch available by really pushing the power section.

My 80-watt 2x12 tube amp would be nearly useless to me without my HotPlate since I play entirely in my basement of my house. I don't gig, but if I did it would still be a huge benefit for the ability to control stage volume. It's still loud when attenuated by -12 dB but it really takes the edge off of the volume and makes it tolerable to be next to while playing, and it tames it enough to make it easier to mic without clipping my mic preamps.

So whether you go Weber or THD, I don't think either will let you down. The THD has more options and I can personally vouch for their excellent build quality and great tone. But the Weber has price on its side. It's too bad that so few places carry them so doing a demo or side-by-side comparison will be difficult. See if you can buy from someplace with a leniant return policy and give them both a try.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Wow, thanks for this. I'll be picking one up for sure thanks to everybodys great advice (as soon as my new amp comes in). I'm pretty sure I'm going with the Peavey Classic 30, so I figure with the attenuater I'll only need to shave off 8db, 12db max, so tone should still be decent.
Thanks guys
James
 
wait a minute...

apparently no one read this part...
"You just put the Omnisonic in the effects loop, turn up the amp's volume, drive, EQ, and/or gain controls to the tone you really want, and then use the box to set the overall sound you've achieved at the exact volume you need. This will work with almost any tube amp, provided that you have an effects loop. It requires no batteries, so it will never stop working. And it WILL NOT harm your amp in any way.



(Please note: the volume box is designed to work with the effects loop of an amp. If your amp doesn't have an effects loop, it won't work for you. Nor should it be placed between the amp and speaker or cabinet. It is designed ONLY for effects loops).

As an added bonus, if your amp doesn't have a Master Volume control (or if your Master Volume only controls the drive channel), the Omnisonic Volume Control Box gives you what you've been missing--master control of all your channels and settings at once".

you still have to drive the amp in order to get the tubes to compress but running the Omnisonic through the effects loop is going to control how much of that power is being sent to the speaker; it will not work any other way unless it is ran through the effects loop though.
I am tempted to buy one just to see how it is made but I am sure there is a little bit more to it than just a potentiometer in a box with an in and out.
I am not much of an electrical minded person but In my own mind I can see how this would work through the effects loop but I have been wrong about things many many times.
I like the idea of being able to have fine adjustment of the volume because this little V33 has a very touchy gain knob and something like this will help that problem
but Ya you cant beat the Weber Mass Attenuator I have the 50 Watt model
 
I use a Tube Cube. It is placed between the amp & speaker like most attenuators.
It works well with my Superbass Mk II & Etone box.
Then again I'm no expert.
The Tube Cube was about US$100 and does what it says it'll do so I drive the amp hard (no master vol & no effects loop) but pull back the brain salad by dialing the TC.
Oh, in the 70's Omnisonic was the brand name of an exciter type box for domestic stereos - The Omnisonic 801 imager (I have 2 & they're very nice).
 
I do not own this thing but a friend used a similar effects loop volume knob with his Peavey Classic 50 head and a Vox 2x12 cabinet.

These products are nothing but a volume pot in a box. There's maybe $5 in parts. $25 with shipping is a fair deal if you're not good with a soldering iron, but if you are, making your own is about the easiest project possible.

It's not a Hot Plate, but it does allow you to crank the preamp and to also crank the power amp. In between you are limiting the signal going into the power amp, but a little signal into a cranked power amp sounds very different from lots of signal going into a barely open power amp. (One immediate difference is having nearly infinite headroom in the power stage. You like touch-sensitive amplification? Eat your heart out.)

This is a big deal with the Peavey Classic series, because there is enough leakage that these amps can be too loud for bedroom practice with the power amp AT 0. This phenomenon seems to vary from amp to amp, (my Delta blues is audible but quiet at 0, but insanely loud at 2). This little volume knob in a box lets you actually USE the power amp in a way that 1) you can control the output volume a little better and 2) the power amp doesn't grow cobwebs.

It's not a Hot Plate. It is very useful. It makes a huge sonic difference to warm up the power amp. I've never seen or used the particular box you linked to, but the one I used may have been an earlier version from the same people.
 
arcaxis said:
Probably the only thing that's in the box is a potentiometer connected to the input and output jack. If you can solder it would be a super easy project, but....

"...to get that killer tube tone, you have to crank it--and now you're too loud"

Part of that cranked "killer tube tone" comes from driving the output tubes, which putting a control in line like that reduces that drive. If you've got a Master control on the amp, turning that down likely would give the same result. Similar to "Power Soak" - not.

preamp out >>>> effects chain >>>> volume box >>>> power amp in

I've not used one of these, but this is my spin on what I think the box does or doesn't do. If I built one I think I'd put a bypass switch in to give an easy way to change volume while playing.
Click to expand...
so this is the same thing as jimmy posted a link to with a bypass switch that you mentioned but 25 dollars more?
wonder what the 9V battery is for:confused:
 
arcaxis said:
Gotta light the LED somehow, don't ya? :D :D
Click to expand...
OK gotcha:D
for 30 bucks I think I would just do without the LED and go for the cheaper box from ebay;)
and just install a bypass switch on that one.
by the time you bought everything you need to build one of these boxes you would have 20 bucks tied up in parts then you are looking at labor time so the omnisonic is a good deal for what it does.
 
RejectionNinja said:
I do not own this thing but a friend used a similar effects loop volume knob with his Peavey Classic 50 head and a Vox 2x12 cabinet.

These products are nothing but a volume pot in a box. There's maybe $5 in parts. $25 with shipping is a fair deal if you're not good with a soldering iron, but if you are, making your own is about the easiest project possible.

It's not a Hot Plate, but it does allow you to crank the preamp and to also crank the power amp. In between you are limiting the signal going into the power amp, but a little signal into a cranked power amp sounds very different from lots of signal going into a barely open power amp. (One immediate difference is having nearly infinite headroom in the power stage. You like touch-sensitive amplification? Eat your heart out.)
Click to expand...

How do you figure that? The amount of signal going into the power section determines whether it is "cranked" or not. Even on an amp with a master volume, all the gain/volume controls operate on the preamp (gain is on the preamp input, master volume is on the output). Power sections do not have volume controls; they are turned up all the way all the time.
 
Exactly. The effects loop comes before the power amp. So turning up anything in the effects loop is only going to send more signal TO the power amp, not more signal IN the power amp. It's the same thing as turning up your preamp gain or channel volume. Or the same thing as turning up the level on any stomp box you have running in your effects loop. You're not turning up the power amp, you're just feeding it more input signal.

With a power attenuator, they connect between the power amp and the speakers. So you actually turn up the power section of your amp and only allow a portion of that signal to get to the speakers. The rest is disappated as heat by the attenuator.
 
ggunn said:
How do you figure that? The amount of signal going into the power section determines whether it is "cranked" or not. Even on an amp with a master volume, all the gain/volume controls operate on the preamp (gain is on the preamp input, master volume is on the output). Power sections do not have volume controls; they are turned up all the way all the time.
Click to expand...

How do I figure that? Uh, I'll go with science and understanding for $100?

Running a low signal into a wide open amplifier to get volume "loud" sounds different than running a hot signal into a half open amplifier to get volume "loud". These volume boxes apply exactly that principle to the power amp thru the effects loop (with or without the "master volume" or "post amp" knob acting as the gateway to the power amp). The results are fairly self evident to anyone who has used one.

If you think it's merely redundant to add this box to the effects loop, feel free to hold your opinion. Obviously a single pot set to 1 of 10 has exactly the same tone as two pots in series set at 5 :rolleyes:

Of course, you could do the exactly the same thing by turning down your preamp gain. Some people say this will sound exactly the same, but I listen to the amps instead.
 
Tadpui said:
Exactly. The effects loop comes before the power amp. So turning up anything in the effects loop is only going to send more signal TO the power amp, not more signal IN the power amp. It's the same thing as turning up your preamp gain or channel volume. Or the same thing as turning up the level on any stomp box you have running in your effects loop. You're not turning up the power amp, you're just feeding it more input signal.

With a power attenuator, they connect between the power amp and the speakers. So you actually turn up the power section of your amp and only allow a portion of that signal to get to the speakers. The rest is disappated as heat by the attenuator.
Click to expand...

I guess this post was partly directed to me?

None of these boxes turn up anything in the effects loop. It's a simple variable resistor. It's not the same as turning up the volume on stomp boxes in the effects loop (presuming you're talking about going above unity gain).
 
But its still different than what a power attenuator does (although I don't think that's what your arguing anyways). I just don't see the benefit of using anything that does't allow you to actually PUSH the power tubes. Even if you have your master volume turned way up, if you're only feeding it a small signal, you're not pushing the power tubes into breakup or saturation. You're just adding another volume knob before the power section. I can see how this would be useful for an amp that doesn't have a channel volume, but I can't see the use for any other amp.

It may sound different than simply turning down the master but its still not going to sound the same has having the master wide open, and feeding the power section a hot signal. There's just no replacing that sound.

All you're getting with this device is still the same amount of power amp distortion (or less) than you'd get without it. And power amp distortion is what keeps us tube fanatics drooling :)
 
RejectionNinja said:
How do I figure that? Uh, I'll go with science and understanding for $100?

Running a low signal into a wide open amplifier to get volume "loud" sounds different than running a hot signal into a half open amplifier to get volume "loud". These volume boxes apply exactly that principle to the power amp thru the effects loop (with or without the "master volume" or "post amp" knob acting as the gateway to the power amp). The results are fairly self evident to anyone who has used one.

If you think it's merely redundant to add this box to the effects loop, feel free to hold your opinion. Obviously a single pot set to 1 of 10 has exactly the same tone as two pots in series set at 5 :rolleyes:

Of course, you could do the exactly the same thing by turning down your preamp gain. Some people say this will sound exactly the same, but I listen to the amps instead.
Click to expand...

Maybe we aren't communicating. The power section of any amplifier is always turned all the way up. None of the controls on your amp have anything to do with the power section. Look at a schematic if you don't believe me.

I haven't a clue what effect this gizmo has on your tone, but I assure you it has nothing to do with the power section being "cranked". The only control of volume in the power section is the amount of signal you send into it. The output level of the preamp, the master volume control, anything you put into the effects loop... all they are doing when they change the volume of the amp is regulating the amount of signal going into the (always turned all the way up) power section.
 
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