Any advice to songwriter about NEW recorders

[zachary7]

I have never bought a personal home recording system. I have only vaguely used cakewalk via PC and hated it. I am wanting to take my songwriting to the next level (complex). If anyone could give me some advise on exactly what I would need to purchase in order to start making quality music (solo) @ home, it would be great. (monitors, quality multitracks, mixers, mics, drum machines, etc.). Now I would like to purchase a multitrack that is not totally complicated or, lets say, not totally simple. My hopes are going far with the music thing and it wont hurt to begin getting used to the vocabulary and controls of the mixing and engineering aspect of writing and creation. Any point in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. Thanx. This is just the first step in a long process, and I do have a semi-cap of about $1200. I just dont want to spend a grand on a multitrack, get it out of the box, and become stuck because I didnt have the right external equipment. ZS

 

[Thunder33]

You can pick up a used digital multi tracker pretty cheap these days. My buddy just sold a VS880 for $150. Anything like that will work. However, I think you will find many limitations with those that are easy to overcome by going with a PC based set up. What did you hate about Cakewalk?

 

[zachary7]

well it was years ago for starters. PC sucked (i think). Frankly I wasnt "there" yet with my music. Im 27 now, since then, maybe 5 yrs ago, my creativity has expanded and i need a tool that can handle the 5,6,7,8,9 parts to every song I imagine...or just one. Been really studying up on them all. Looking at boss1600cd, yamaha aw1600, korg d3200, tascam dc-02, etc...

 

[zachary7]

you know, I really would like some info on the tascam 2488 mkII. And its big brother neo. They seem like masive machines with endless capabilities, and for the price, you cant really beat it...can you??

 

[Thunder33]

well it was years ago for starters. PC sucked (i think). Frankly I wasnt "there" yet with my music. Im 27 now, since then, maybe 5 yrs ago, my creativity has expanded and i need a tool that can handle the 5,6,7,8,9 parts to every song I imagine...or just one. Been really studying up on them all. Looking at boss1600cd, yamaha aw1600, korg d3200, tascam dc-02, etc...

that's cool. I have just had this conversation with a few people now and after buying a stand alone unit, they have all ended up getting a computer and using that. For $1200, you could get set up quite nice in that game. I just always hated the limitations of a stand alone.

 

[Yonce N Mild]

Do you already have a decent PC? How many tracks do you need to be able to record at one time? What sound sources are you planning on recording? Do you currently have any equipment? (mics preamps etc)

 

[zachary7]

Limitations huh??? Could you compare? And couldnt I buy software for my comp. later and utilize them in tandem?

 

[zachary7]

pc is a media PC with a blank slate. dual processor @ 2.8ghz each. No equipment yet. All in due time. demo, demo, demo...send around...you know

 

[Thunder33]

Limitations huh??? Could you compare? And couldnt I buy software for my comp. later and utilize them in tandem?

I couldn't go over every comparison. But with a PC, you can download Reaper for free (not illegal), but a decent drum program for a couple hundred dollars, and tons of free effects and what not online (again, not illegal). That leaves you money freed up for fun stuff like mics and stuff like that. What are you planning to record? What kind of PC do you have? Specs?

I started in the digital world using the Roland VS880EX. At the same time, I bought a $45 version of Cakewalk that had 8 Tracks. Same as the Roland. It took me no time at all to learn my way around Cakewalk. I never really totally got the use out of the Roland. I moved up to Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 and then eventually Reaper. I have taught a couple of people about reaper in a couple of short lessons and they are up and running and can record in a snap now.

 

[Yonce N Mild]

pc is a media PC with a blank slate. dual processor @ 2.8ghz each. No equipment yet. All in due time. demo, demo, demo...send around...you know

PC specs are just fine. I've heard XP media center edition has some issues with audio apps but I don't have any firsthand experience with it.

I would recommend going the PC route just because it is cheapest and easiest. You could download reaper and start recording right away using the built in soundcard on your PC. That way you can play around and get the hang of it see if you like it before you invest any money. You add a decent firewire audio interface and you could easily have an 8 in 8 out multitrack setup with quality preamps. Then you would still have money left over for a mic or two and some decent monitors or more importantly room treatment.

There is nothing inherently wrong with stand alone multi-track recorders. It's just that you can do everything that you can do on a standalone and then some on a PC and you can do it with your keyboard and mouse on a monitor instead of on a little tiny LCD screen with clumsy buttons and knobs. With a PC you also have a massive amount of free effects and instruments in the form of VTS and Dx plugins whereas with a standalone you are limited to the onboard effect and any outboard gear you might have.


Most important question though......... what do you want to record? We can make much better more specific recommendations if we know what type of instruments/style of music you want to record.

 

[Thunder33]

There is nothing inherently wrong with stand alone multi-track recorders. It's just that you can do everything that you can do on a standalone and then some on a PC and you can do it with your keyboard and mouse on a monitor instead of on a little tiny LCD screen with clumsy buttons and knobs. With a PC you also have a massive amount of free effects and instruments in the form of VTS and Dx plugins whereas with a standalone you are limited to the onboard effect and any outboard gear you might have.

exactly! Editing alone is so much easier!

 

[zachary7]

well...im really starting to get serious with music. especially about the in and outs of engineering. I plan to initially use whatever I purchase, "solo" for a while. record keys, guits, vocs, interesting sounds, and arrange them. after a while of that, I will use whatever i buy with a group im trying to form. my Q to you guys is prices. When software for a comp. is verycheap, and units like the br1600 are very expensive...why doesnt everybody just use comp. software? Im trying to look into the future and i just got my hands on some money. id like to invest it in something worth while...any thoughts?

 

[Thunder33]

well...im really starting to get serious with music. especially about the in and outs of engineering. I plan to initially use whatever I purchase, "solo" for a while. record keys, guits, vocs, interesting sounds, and arrange them. after a while of that, I will use whatever i buy with a group im trying to form. my Q to you guys is prices. When software for a comp. is verycheap, and units like the br1600 are very expensive...why doesnt everybody just use comp. software? Im trying to look into the future and i just got my hands on some money. id like to invest it in something worth while...any thoughts?

I know a lot of studios that use computers and software. I don't know any that use stand alone digital multi trackers. I know of guys who spend hundreds and even thousands on software and have ditched it for Reaper. So you don't always get what you pay for. Go to www.reaper.fm and download it and play around with it. You will see.

 

[gecko zzed]

I am wanting to take my songwriting to the next level (complex).

The tricky word here is 'complex', because complex problems usually have complex solutions.

My Yamaha 4-track cassette recorder served me well for many years. It was simple, easy to use, and presented a nicely intuitive (for me) interface for recording.

It worked fine until I ventured into more complex recording. By judiciously bouncing from track to track, I had the equivalent of ten tracks to play with, but it became a huge juggling act, and I was forever struggling to maintain quality.

So I shopped around and got a PC-based system. This was not entirely new to me, because I had messed around with MIDI on the Commodore Amiga before that, but dealing with audio was a challenge. It took me a couple of months before I successfully recorded an audio track. An acquaintance of mine went down the stand-alone path, and he is still struggling to make it work efficiently for him.

There are steep learning curves involved in both computer and stand-alone systems. I've been using Logic on a PC since the mid-nineties, and I am still in the dark about some aspects of its potential.

Other responses have noted the flexibility of computer-based systems, and the availability of downloadable material. I agree with them, and like them, would recommend this path.

However, I don't think either option is inherently more difficult than the other; each is as aggravating as the other . . . and that's just the nature of what they are. Your average sedan is fine for driving to the shops and back and getting a service by a bloke in greasey overalls once every three months. For higher performance, you no longer enjoy the simplicity of a sedan, and an F1 car is way more complicated and requires a service team of about twenty or more people in special suits everytime the car hits the track. That's just what happens.

 

[Chili]

Yeah, I've gotta jump in and concur with what others are saying. I had a VS-840 before and now use a firewire mixer with Cubase. While the VS was nice and compact and had everything right in the box, it was difficult to get anything worthwhile out of it. I never fully climbed the learning curve with it because it just wasn't an intuitive interface.

With Cubase and a firewire interface (I have the phonic mixer), there's still a learning curve but once you get past it, the quality of the mixes are much better. More manageable. As Thunder said, edits are much easier and you'll be editing a lot. Also, later on when you've saved up more money, you can aquire meaningful upgrades, like quality plugs, mic pre's, better interfaces, etc. You'll have a scaleable system. Can't do that with a studio-in-a-box.

I do all my songs myself, which is what you're trying to do. I have Cubase SE3 with a Phonic Helix firewire mixer. I like the mixer because it sends only the raw signal to the computer, but I can apply effects on what I'm monitoring while tracking. I don't have to worry about latency or anything (although maybe not as big of an issue nowadays).

I have two cheapo condensor mics. I use an amp modeler pedal for my electric, so no amps needed. I use ezdrummer for drums. I ahve a pair of decent near-field monitors and I used to have a treated studio, but not at the present time. A treated room is very important for mixing. Gotta make sure what you're hearing is what is coming out of the speakers.

I think I get pretty decent results, not great. You can check out what I've been able to do here:

www.soundclick.com/irishpirate

Hope this helps.

 

[zachary7]

you all have been great. great advice in these forums. im glad i stumbled across this site

 

[Waffleness]

you all have been great. great advice in these forums. im glad i stumbled across this site

I can't really add much to what has been said, but i would advocate a PC approach - it will stand you well in the long run. You say your wanting to get serious about it, well your going to have to learn how to use a DAW sooner or later

 

[BentRabbit]

I'm one of those that incorporate both a stand-alone (Roland VS2480 DVD) and computer in my studio (Sonar 7 Producer/Dual Xeon 3.06 Proc with 3 gigs Ram).

I find myself bouncing between them all the time... Each offering features the other can't touch... Most 'in the trenches' editing is done in Sonar but almost all multi-instrumental tracking is on the 2480.

They are tied together with a Presonus VFire so I can make use of the 2480's motorized faders with Sonar's automation envelopes.

Some projects never see the 2480 and vice-versa... It all depends on what's getting recorded and what I'm trying to accomplish at the time.

A lot of excellent advice has already been covered here so I won't rehash... Go with where your research takes you, including advice you receive here at HR... There's a wealth of talent and knowledge in our neurotic little community

No doubt you and your studio will adjust/grow (as we all have) as new challenges present themselves.



Edit: And FWIW - I comp'd the Tascam 2488 and the Roland 2480 before making my purchase. To me, the Tascam just didn't measure up to the sound/features of the Roland

 

[zachary7]

yea..the pc approach sounds more practical in terms of $ and the "long-run". I have researched and ive uncovered positive and negative feedback for both sit-down and pc paths to creation. The last post does make sense to me though. The 2488 is too much for now. I dont need that kind of power as of yet. However, the tascam DC-02 fits perfectly for what Im looking to do. Its easily portable and it comes with some descent software. Price isnt over the top considering its features and capabilities. Thoughts anyone?

 

[jdier]

I have never bought a personal home recording system. I have only vaguely used cakewalk via PC and hated it. I am wanting to take my songwriting to the next level (complex). If anyone could give me some advise on exactly what I would need to purchase in order to start making quality music (solo) @ home, it would be great. (monitors, quality multitracks, mixers, mics, drum machines, etc.). Now I would like to purchase a multitrack that is not totally complicated or, lets say, not totally simple. My hopes are going far with the music thing and it wont hurt to begin getting used to the vocabulary and controls of the mixing and engineering aspect of writing and creation. Any point in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. Thanx. This is just the first step in a long process, and I do have a semi-cap of about $1200. I just dont want to spend a grand on a multitrack, get it out of the box, and become stuck because I didnt have the right external equipment. ZS

JUST to get started I might recommend a TonePort UX2 and Reaper. This is a total of about $200. Add an SM57 for $50 used or $100 new and you are recording. Reaper had good enough midi that you can program drums within it.

This is NOT perfect or a dream set up but it will get you started and help you figure out what you do and do not like. Also, the TonePort holds value pretty well so you can get started and record a few things and if you need something more powerful you can upgrade.

I only suggest this route based on your concern about buying something that does not work for you.

I have heard some nice sounding recordings with just that gear. Certainly some nice demos.