another one for Muttley or Light

Hmmm....

I'm probably gonna get a good spanking for this... but hell, everyone needs one once in a while!:rolleyes:

I for one have never oiled or watered or moistured anything in my basses/guitars. Never have anything cracked, splintered or dislocated.

Now... people go to lengths finding well-dried and solid timber to them guitars, for Tone.
Isn't soaking them in oil going to soften the wood/affect the tone??

(ducking for cover...:p)
 
Now... people go to lengths finding well-dried and solid timber to them guitars, for Tone.
Isn't soaking them in oil going to soften the wood/affect the tone??


Not for tone - for stability. For most parts of the guitar, moisture content has nothing to do with tone.

As wood dries, it shrinks. If you build with wood which is still too "wet," it shrinks, cracks, and just generally makes you life a royal PITA. I aim for somewhere between 7-9% moisture content. But that's not the whole story - wood stores moisture in different ways, both in the cell, and between the cells. The moisture in the cells is more difficult to remove, and when new moisture gets into wood it will take a lot longer to get into the cells. (This, by the way, is why air dried wood is considered preferable to kiln dried wood - because air drying is so much slower, it keeps the moisture content more even, which - among other things - means the shrinkage is more even.) Once the moisture content is down to where you want it (7-9%), as the wood is held there, the two balance out.

Because of this, most woodworkers try to buy the wood they are going to use as far in advance of actual use as possible (we have some Brazilian Rosewood and German Spruce in the shop which we've had since the seventies - and you can bet that stuff is going for a premium!) I try to never use a piece of wood for a guitar until it has been in the shop for at least a year, but longer is better. This is called acclimatization. Dad figures he's got enough mahogany for necks to last him the rest of his life. (I wish I could say the same, as South African mahogany just recently went on the CITIES list.)

None of this has anything significant to do with tone (though, a really wet top on an acoustic guitar will sound really tubby - but with the fingerboard its not going to make any difference). The issue is stability. You can never be completely sure what a piece of wood is going to do (as the sign in the shop says, "Carefully selected pieces of wood, under rigorously controlled conditions, will do pretty much as they damn well please"), I can say for certain that wet wood with the moisture content out of balance will ALWAYS be less stable than a piece of dry, well acclimatized wood. I can also say for certain that some kind of finish will make a piece of wood more stable, and the more impervious the finish the better.

Oiling a fingerboard is something else all together. It doesn't sink all the way into the fingerboard - it penetrates about 1/16" or less into the surface. This provides a layer of protection from gaining or loosing moisture, thus keeping the fingerboard more stable. Of course, when the fingerboard is more stable, the whole neck is more stable. It's not a huge issue, as both Muttley and I have said, but to suggest that it is in any way damaging to the fingerboard is completely untrue. Additionally, the oil you use on the fingerboard is bound up in the wood, and can't possibly effect the longevity of you strings, as if you are playing the way most people do your strings never actually touch the fingerboard (they touch the frets). And of course, none of this has ANYTHING to do with the shit people put on their strings, which I've never liked.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Closed minds think alike

I agree completely and often just take a handful of sand and rub it over the length of the fretboard. In a pinch I use whatever is in the vacuum cleaner bag as it has been filtered down to fine particulate. When you force grit into the pores of the wood, you no longer have to worry about the moisture. The tone becomes much more brutalz. I also recommend using sand to lubricate your pots and switches.

That is just a rediculous and infantile response! apparently you are a know-it-all also. :eek:
 
:eek:

This is still America? Right? Or are you guys from some other country or Facist Regime?
Victory Pete:cool:


"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."


Wow, you must really be new to the internet. Either that, or you are either an idiot or a troll. So, let me point out some rather tired and dull facts of which you are clearly unaware. 1) Yes, you are allowed to state whatever you want to state - and Muttley and I are free to point out that you're an idiot and that people should ignore what you said. 2) This is not a governmental organization, and so there is no possibility of censorship. Dragon, or whoever it is who owns this place, has a remarkably light hand on this site, but it is a privately owned site and anything they want to remove is not censorship or Fascism - it's editing. If they don't want you (or me, for that matter) on this board, that's their choice. You have the right to put up your own website, but you do not have an absolute right to post on other peoples sites. 3) Neither Muttley nor I have the authority to moderate you in any way. We have, however, built up an extensive store of trust with members of this board by posting a large amount of good information. We are also known to be rather merciless with bad information. If we call you out for putting up bad information, people are likely to listen to us.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
:eek:

This is still America? Right? Or are you guys from some other country or Facist Regime?
Victory Pete:cool:

No, the internet is actually global and I will resist the temptation to spout some of the false but funny US stereotype here.

No I am not in the US. No I do not live under a facist regime. There thats answered your question and to add to what light just said, as I threatened to dig up old posts and expose some of the other dross you have posted, can you explain the rationale behind this
I stopped putting anything on my fretboards and strings a long time ago. They only thing I do to my neck, with the strings attached, is frequently bathe the entire length in shower to shower powder. I rub it with a clean dry cotton cloth. It is pure bliss! My action is silky smooth fast with no oily, greasy, string dulling residue. It absorbs all acid, salt, grease, beer, or any other funk. Since I have been doing this my strings do not tarnish and last a long time. Any thing you put on your strings, even a damp cloth, gets inside the windings and clogs and corrodes them. I have studied this effect for years and I am convinced. Try wiping your strings with any king of liquid and they will be dull after. I dont think fretboards need anything but to be polished by your fingers.
Victory Pete
 
Dry, clean, fast fretboard!

No, the internet is actually global and I will resist the temptation to spout some of the false but funny US stereotype here.

No I am not in the US. No I do not live under a facist regime. There thats answered your question and to add to what light just said, as I threatened to dig up old posts and expose some of the other dross you have posted, can you explain the rationale behind this

Yes! A fretboard that is constantly free of oil, salt, skin residue, rust, scale, and any other funk you can think of. My strings are always clean and polished. My hands are always dry and there is virtually no friction with the strings. I have been doing this for years and most people who have tried my guitars adopt my method. I have a question for you, Do you actually play a guitar as a musician or just as a technician? Because a lot of creativity and art might have nothing to do with science.
Thank you
Victory Pete :cool:
 
You assume alot!

"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."


Wow, you must really be new to the internet. Either that, or you are either an idiot or a troll. So, let me point out some rather tired and dull facts of which you are clearly unaware. 1) Yes, you are allowed to state whatever you want to state - and Muttley and I are free to point out that you're an idiot and that people should ignore what you said. 2) This is not a governmental organization, and so there is no possibility of censorship. Dragon, or whoever it is who owns this place, has a remarkably light hand on this site, but it is a privately owned site and anything they want to remove is not censorship or Fascism - it's editing. If they don't want you (or me, for that matter) on this board, that's their choice. You have the right to put up your own website, but you do not have an absolute right to post on other peoples sites. 3) Neither Muttley nor I have the authority to moderate you in any way. We have, however, built up an extensive store of trust with members of this board by posting a large amount of good information. We are also known to be rather merciless with bad information. If we call you out for putting up bad information, people are likely to listen to us.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

I am neither an idiot or a troll!
Victory Pete:cool:
 
Yes! A fretboard that is constantly free of oil, salt, skin residue, rust, scale, and any other funk you can think of. My strings are always clean and polished. My hands are always dry and there is virtually no friction with the strings. I have been doing this for years and most people who have tried my guitars adopt my method. I have a question for you, Do you actually play a guitar as a musician or just as a technician? Because a lot of creativity and art might have nothing to do with science.
Thank you
Victory Pete :cool:

No your advice here is once again deeply flawed. See my post #5 in this thread. The reason a fingerboard needs some method of minimising the amount of moisture that it absorbs and loses is to prevent unwanted movement of the otherwise bare timber. Tangential movement can result in frets lifting and excessive strain in the neck and truss rod set. Movement across the grain can result in sharp fret ends appearing at the edge of the fingerboard and bindings lifting and cracks appearing in the polished edge of the board. In the case of Acoustics and archtops it is especially important to preserve the integrity of the setup.This is especially true if you live in an area that has rapid and high fluctuations in humidity. Your advice is of no use what so ever if it was it would have been adopted as a method for protecting wood from the elements many years ago.

Yes I play the guitar and have in the past toured and recorded, also before the kids arrived I did some guitar tech work on the road with established acts. The problem here has more to do with your ignorance of simple facts than any distinction between art, creativity and science.
 
Enough already!

No your advice here is once again deeply flawed. See my post #5 in this thread. The reason a fingerboard needs some method of minimising the amount of moisture that it absorbs and loses is to prevent unwanted movement of the otherwise bare timber. Tangential movement can result in frets lifting and excessive strain in the neck and truss rod set. Movement across the grain can result in sharp fret ends appearing at the edge of the fingerboard and bindings lifting and cracks appearing in the polished edge of the board. In the case of Acoustics and archtops it is especially important to preserve the integrity of the setup.This is especially true if you live in an area that has rapid and high fluctuations in humidity. Your advice is of no use what so ever if it was it would have been adopted as a method for protecting wood from the elements many years ago.

Yes I play the guitar and have in the past toured and recorded, also before the kids arrived I did some guitar tech work on the road with established acts. The problem here has more to do with your ignorance of simple facts than any distinction between art, creativity and science.

I have 11 guitars and none of them have any of the problems you have desribed. I live in the NE of USA where we have extremes of humidity in the summer and dry air in the winter. So if you oil fretboards to maintain the moisture content of the wood, I would assume you only add oil in the fall to keep the moisture in the wood from drying out in the winter. If you oiled in the spring it seems the wood which was probably dry from winter would not be able to absorb the moisture from the air beacuse the oil is blocking it out. once again I state my case and everybody is free to form their own opinions, hopefully not to be reprimanded by you, oh great one!
Victory Pete:cool:
 

Wow, that's spectacular - I've honestly never seen that before. :p

Victory Pete - this is a discussion forum. Aside from the fact that it's NOT the United States but is actually both an international community and someone's private property, meaning your "rights" to pretty much anything are about nil, it's also worth thinking about what exactly a "discussion forum" is. The gist is that people ask questions or post ideas or thoughts, and then people, get this, discuss them; weigh their relative merits, propose answers to questions, and then debate to try to either help the poster answer his question, or debate the merit of his idea or comment.

So, you're right, you're perfectly in the clear by proposing that the OP use "shower to shower powder" (I had to google it) on his guitar necks. However, in turn, everyone else here is perfectly in the clear by pointing out that they don't think that's a very good idea.

Out of morbid curiosity, though, what are your fretboards made out of?
 
To each his own!

Wow, that's spectacular - I've honestly never seen that before. :p

Victory Pete - this is a discussion forum. Aside from the fact that it's NOT the United States but is actually both an international community and someone's private property, meaning your "rights" to pretty much anything are about nil, it's also worth thinking about what exactly a "discussion forum" is. The gist is that people ask questions or post ideas or thoughts, and then people, get this, discuss them; weigh their relative merits, propose answers to questions, and then debate to try to either help the poster answer his question, or debate the merit of his idea or comment.

So, you're right, you're perfectly in the clear by proposing that the OP use "shower to shower powder" (I had to google it) on his guitar necks. However, in turn, everyone else here is perfectly in the clear by pointing out that they don't think that's a very good idea.

Out of morbid curiosity, though, what are your fretboards made out of?

I never proposed that anyone use powder, I was stating what has been working for me. My fretboards are Rosewood and Ebony. I dont know what kind of powder you think I use, but it is very fine and soft. It is not like I use sand as some brilliant poster suggested. Obviously people are very opinionated about their guitars, they should be, it is a very personal thing. I just think it is absolutely wrong for some people to play "Guitar Czar"
Thanks for a reasonable response.
Victory Pete;)
 
this is going to be interesting

I would like to apologize to mutley if I have offended him in any way and thank him for welcoming me onboard.I have been observing the discussion and I can see that Mutley really does know what he is talking about.And,I might add,has a fairly thick skin.If someone comes up with an idea better than the one I have, I would be a fool and an egotistical blowhard to at least not consider it.I am a musician first and am sure that I will learn a great deal if I just check my ego at the door.If I had a question concerning a tech situation I would direct it to either mutley or light.Both seem to not only know what they are talking about but also call bull#$@* on those that might spew unfounded advice to those of us that are ,regardless of how long we've been on the planet,still able to learn from anothers expertise.
Once again,thank you Muttley and also thank you Light.
 
I would like to apologize to mutley if I have offended him in any way and thank him for welcoming me onboard.I have been observing the discussion and I can see that Mutley really does know what he is talking about.And,I might add,has a fairly thick skin.If someone comes up with an idea better than the one I have, I would be a fool and an egotistical blowhard to at least not consider it.I am a musician first and am sure that I will learn a great deal if I just check my ego at the door.If I had a question concerning a tech situation I would direct it to either mutley or light.Both seem to not only know what they are talking about but also call bull#$@* on those that might spew unfounded advice to those of us that are ,regardless of how long we've been on the planet,still able to learn from anothers expertise.
Once again,thank you Muttley and also thank you Light.
Why would you have offended me? You've only made two posts and neither have made any outrageous claims.;)

I answered your post in another thread because it highlighted a few things thats all.

As I finished by saying there. Welcome aboard.
 
I dont think anyone has the right to judge and slander people because of their opinions and practices. I have learned alot in my life from all kinds of people, The important thing is to take it all in stride and come up with what works for you. No one likes a bully.
 
I never proposed that anyone use powder, I was stating what has been working for me. My fretboards are Rosewood and Ebony. I dont know what kind of powder you think I use, but it is very fine and soft. It is not like I use sand as some brilliant poster suggested. Obviously people are very opinionated about their guitars, they should be, it is a very personal thing. I just think it is absolutely wrong for some people to play "Guitar Czar"
Thanks for a reasonable response.
Victory Pete;)

I think it's absolutely right, though, for people with a ton of experience to the contrary to point out that a suggestion is potentially dangerous.

You're probably in the clear with ebony - Light or Muttley could (and, hopefully will) confirm this, but if I recall right ebony is pretty imperveous to moisture. And, had you been playing finished maple necks, again there's a seal between the board and the elements, so you wouldn't need to oil it.

Rosewood, though... Different story. A rosewood board that isn't periodically oiled will become very dry and potentially unstable. Cracks, loose frets, added wear - you name it.

I use woodwind bore oil - wipe it on a clean board lightly, let it sit a few minutes, and then wipe all the excess that hasn't penetrated off. I only do this every six months or so - the idea isn't to keep the board oily, but rather just not dry. A visual check is usually enough - a properly oiled board will be fairly rich in color, while a bone-dry one will be washed out.
 
I think it's absolutely right, though, for people with a ton of experience to the contrary to point out that a suggestion is potentially dangerous.

You're probably in the clear with ebony - Light or Muttley could (and, hopefully will) confirm this, but if I recall right ebony is pretty imperveous to moisture. And, had you been playing finished maple necks, again there's a seal between the board and the elements, so you wouldn't need to oil it.

Rosewood, though... Different story. A rosewood board that isn't periodically oiled will become very dry and potentially unstable. Cracks, loose frets, added wear - you name it.

I use woodwind bore oil - wipe it on a clean board lightly, let it sit a few minutes, and then wipe all the excess that hasn't penetrated off. I only do this every six months or so - the idea isn't to keep the board oily, but rather just not dry. A visual check is usually enough - a properly oiled board will be fairly rich in color, while a bone-dry one will be washed out.

Thanks for your opinion, I have a lot of guitars with none of those symptoms. What I do have is the cleanest boards I have ever seen. Actually my oldest guitar has a nice rich, dark, sheen to it. It is rosewood.
VP
 
Thanks for your opinion, I have a lot of guitars with none of those symptoms. What I do have is the cleanest boards I have ever seen. Actually my oldest guitar has a nice rich, dark, sheen to it. It is rosewood.
VP

I have had the privilege of being around many old guitars. I have seen many cracked ebony boards. Rosewood is less prone to cracking but I have seen them cracked as well. I have run my hands along the edges of countless fingerboards with the fret ends sticking out as a result of shrinkage. I have personal experience with guitars who's frets were popping loose rendering them unplayable without tedious and expensive repair work.

I have never seen this happen to a guitar that was kept properly humidified and whose fingerboard recieved oil treatment regularly as Muttley and Light have described. I have maintained my guitars this way for many years.

You may do as you wish for maintaining your own guitars and if you have good results I am happy for you. But from considerable experience I will tell you that you do so at your own risk. The powder you are using does nothing to address the issues that prompt us to use oil on our boards.
 
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