Annoying Frequencies

[mixsit]

There are areas in the frequency range where bass and kick need to meld, but for the most part, they will add to each others boomy or ringy sound in the low end.

When you say cutting out certain frequencies, do you drop very specific areas almost all the way down or do you just lower them a little? And just how specific areas are we talking about?

You have to play it on a case by case basis. 'All the way down (-18 whatever..) hardly ever that much.
But some times you have to consider that a kick can be decaying too long, or the bass might be sustaing the notes more than is wanted. Either or both of those can pile up as time/envelope shape problems that get in the way of a nice tight defined low end you might be trying to sort out. -that's on top of pure frequency balance eq issues.
I just tackled one tonight where (not the first time) after eq'ing nine different ways ended up adding an expander to the bass guitar track to get it to poke through and not desolve into the mix.
In part a time rather than just tone' solution.

 

[ecktronic]

I've been struggling with a mix (pretty much my first serious one) for a couple of days and this one sentence is probably the one that has been the most helpful in terms of cleaning up mud. Thanks a lot.

To clean up mud you want to cut at around 300Hz. Boosting at around 2.5kHz can add presence but it cannot get rid of mud.

G

 

[Farview]

Well I thought I had cleaned up some mud, but comparing it to other songs I most definately did not. I find the EQ very hard to deal with. It might sound fine for a second because something changes and I, I dunno, I never knew it was that hard. The song is with a couple of panned distorted rock guitars. It seems like boosting or cutting always makes something better but not without making something else worse.

It sounds like you are trying to EQ the mix instead of the individual instruments. Try EQing the individual instruments so they fit together better in the mix.

I'm starting to think I should retrack with lower bass-settings on my guitar-preamp. It sounded so full soloed but it seems to occupy a lot of frequency space making the instruments pretty much trying to knock each other out of the way.

It's possible that you have too much low end, but you could balance that out by adding a bunch of hi shelf at 8k or so. You could also EQ the low end out of the guitars a bit.

 

[AL P]

Depending upon who's playing, all of them....

FWIW...I`ve found myself to be an expert at achieving VERY annoying fequences on my guitar...infact, if i removed all the annoying frequences from a track of my guitar playing, I`d probley be left with only a split second of an open A string...

LOL

 

[dainbramage]

My problem now is when I cut the mud, the guitars sound very very thin, almost as if they were running directly from a distortion pedal. With the mud the guitars sound fat and full. I can take care of it partially by boosting the bass-guitar but I still can't seem to make it sound good. Goddamnit I really want to make this sound good but after 6 days it is starting to annoy me a little. I enjoy the learning process, but I want to get to the next step.

 

[ecktronic]

My problem now is when I cut the mud, the guitars sound very very thin, almost as if they were running directly from a distortion pedal. With the mud the guitars sound fat and full. I can take care of it partially by boosting the bass-guitar but I still can't seem to make it sound good. Goddamnit I really want to make this sound good but after 6 days it is starting to annoy me a little. I enjoy the learning process, but I want to get to the next step.

I would suggest using a different amp and using the distortion on the amp rather than pedal distrotion. Also try out different guitars and brand new strings. Try a heavier guage for a less harsh sound.

 

[JimmyS1969]

That is the tough part man. If your bass guitar is not holding up the low end properly, the guitars will sound thin. If the guitars need the low end to work, the bass will have to be made to work around it. It is a balancing act. Trust me, you will find it. Wish there was a simple answer to make everything work. It is different for every mix.

Make sure you are messing with eq settings while you are listening to the whole mix. Not solo'd instruments. Listen at lower volumes while you are fine tuning. Usually for me, moving the cutoff frequency of a HPF up, on the guitar, while the mix is playing, will give me the point where mud and fullness line should be drawn. This depends on how the rest of the mix is working though. Experimentation to find the right balance, is the experience that will make it much easier in the future. I still struggle at times. Though once I got a grasp on how a mix works together, it became much more 'second nature' to get close.

Keep notching man! It will come around.

 

[miroslav]

FWIW...I`ve found myself to be an expert at achieving VERY annoying fequences on my guitar...infact, if i removed all the annoying frequences from a track of my guitar playing, I`d probley be left with only a split second of an open A string...

LOL

 

[mixsit]

My problem now is when I cut the mud, the guitars sound very very thin, almost as if they were running directly from a distortion pedal. With the mud the guitars sound fat and full. I can take care of it partially by boosting the bass-guitar but I still can't seem to make it sound good. Goddamnit I really want to make this sound good but after 6 days it is starting to annoy me a little. I enjoy the learning process, but I want to get to the next step.

I on the other hand... would say maybe you're just over doing it.

With the mud the guitars sound fat and full...

..and presuming your measure here is in the mix right? ..a very important pre-quirement here
There is each one's tone to be considered, plus their combined effect. Picking the combo of eqs to select (shelf, HP, corner frequencies, bell dips, combinations of..?
And in my experience as the mix density goes up good fits' become harder to sort out -and very often once the bigger issues are dialed in, it can come down to looking at very small changes.
Hang in there. (me struggle too..

 

[moresound]

My problem now is when I cut the mud, the guitars sound very very thin, almost as if they were running directly from a distortion pedal. With the mud the guitars sound fat and full. I can take care of it partially by boosting the bass-guitar but I still can't seem to make it sound good. Goddamnit I really want to make this sound good but after 6 days it is starting to annoy me a little. I enjoy the learning process, but I want to get to the next step.

What is your guitar and amp set up?

 

[Armistice]

dain... .sounds to me like you're falling for the "what sounds good in the room should sound good recorded" trick...

If you're playing heavy guitar and multiple tracking you build up "mud" with each layer. What sounds good in the room, when played on its own, won't necessarily sound all that good when you add a few more takes / layers... you sort of have to know ahead of time what will work, before you hit the record button. That takes experience. Ask anyone...

If you're still tweaking away on the EQ after all this time, then perhaps it can't be done and you need to learn the lesson and re-record with less mud in the first instance.

Just sayin'....

 

[Bob Ross]

There are no specific frequencies that you can just universally get rid of in all cases.

I used to work with a producer who, no matter what source, what studio, what context we were working on, would always say "Take out some 250Hz".

It sort of became a joke amongst the engineers who worked with him; we (perhaps rightly) presumed that he didn't actually know dookie about frequencies, he was just spewing a buzzword that he'd learned.

But the funny thing was, he was nearly always right! Taking out a little 250Hz invariably made an improvement!

 

[Massive Master]

That is one of those "play it safe" frequencies --- Everything has a good amount of 250. Guitars, bass, drums, voices, strings, brass, winds (except piccolo)... And you rarely notice not having enough of something (but you certainly notice too much). Sure, you can go overboard on pulling it all out, but there's always something left...