ANALOGUE CONSOLE SUBGROUPS & PAN CONTROL VS. STEREO IMAGE

[sumitsimlai]

I watched with great intent, a video titled "Mixing Boards - The Basics of Sub-Groups / Sub-Mixes on an Analog Mixing Board".

Taking the example of a drum kit for which 8 mics are used from channels 28-32 of a Mackie 32-8 as in the video, the tutorial talks about sending the drum kit to subgroups for group control of the entire kit with a single fader.

I would imagine that well before thinking of subgrouping a drum kit, one might like to have a stereo image of the drum kit, say, possibly Hi-Hats on the left, snares at 45 deg Left and 45 deg Right, Bass Drum at centre and cymbals at hard left.

The question is, how, if panned on a stereo stage in such a manner, how would one send the entire drumkit to say sub-group 1, yet maintaining the stereo image, because sending to one subgroup say 1, involves pressing the 1-2 button, so we need to pan hard left. And even if one opts for stereo subgrouping i.e. subgroup 1 and subgroup 2, with say 4 mics panned hard left and 4 panned hard right, even then how does one get the desired original stereo image? Is there a catch somewhere that I am missing?

I am looking for answers to this question with reference to Mackie 32-8, Allen & Heath GL2400-424 and Behringer QX2442USB.

Thank you.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Subgroups are typically stereo, so groups 1 and 2 are a stereo pair. You shouldn't need to pan your channels hard left and right as they are distributed between 1 and 2 according to the channel pan setting, and 1 and 2 are themselves innately "panned" hard left and right. So a channel panned center goes to both subs equally, and a channel panned to the left is lowered in the right group according to how hard it's panned.

Submix group pairs may have one fader or two, and there may be some provision for making them mono rather than stereo. That will depend on the console in question.

Pan law adds a bit more to that process, but it's not critical to get the basic idea across.

 

[sumitsimlai]

I must thank you for this early response. I need to first understand how these are routed. On my mixers that I have, A&H GL2400-424 snd a pair of Behringer 2442FXx, they all have Subgroup outputs. I was told by someone that subgroup outputs do not work like Main Mix, in that, unless the subgroups 1 snd 2 are later mixed into the Main mix, any independent output taken from the subgroup outs are going to be essentially mono, snd any stereo image would disappear.

I need better understand then so any reference reading will surely help.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Unless there's something very unusual about the sub outputs, odd channels will be left and even channels will be right. Perhaps you could simply try them and see for yourself.

 

[FrankD77]

Normally see all inputs as mono channels and select the location in the stereo image with the pan dial.

Instead of sending it to main out you now send it to a bus which is stereo.

Advantage of a bus is that you can control the overal volume but also use effects like a compressor on the whole kit. Of course you can also use effects on the separate channels.

In a tape setup the groups are often used as the tracks on the tape. Often with one group for the effects in a hybrid setup.

 

[rob aylestone]

Most mixers of the 8 bus type have routing that uses the pan control to determine which group gets the signal, as said. Let pan sends to 1,3,5 or 7 and right pan does the even numbers. Two group faders can then be stereo. Very few mixers had individual group routing.

 

[Papanate]

On any mixer with subgroups - you use the Pan on the channel - then it sends to the Subgroup which is stereo - which analog mixers usually have buttons for -
- which then sends to the Mains. haven’t had a need to a mono subgroup ever - and I believe most analog Boards have them - Digital Mixers have the ability to make a Subgroup Mono and Stereo - but I haven’t used a mono subgroup ever - basically the stereo image is kept when you send to the subgroup.