an Independent Music General Trend?

[theblackBay]

It's all about Human energy cuseBassMann

I'm a very visual person ok so here it is:

Picture a human as a square box of energy

in front of him are options in life:

i will narrow these to Audio art and recording:

for arguments and my stories sake lets say he can put 70% into any of them
30% being for eating, working, having sex, taking drugs etc.

he can choose:

1. to learn his favourite songs and play in a band and put 70% of energy into that in the aim of play "live" shows and kicking on.

2. learn chords and theory thus trying his hand at song writing.

3. understand little to no theory but learn frequency and production technology and understand why things occur the way they do.


now notice the first two have our square human in a rather serious disadvantage as far as trying to record an Album or EP at home.

the point is when a square human arrives at a forum how can one know for sure of which category he fits into, thus making an assumptions that he can not achieve the results he wants to obtain is incorrect.

number 1 will have as originals songs A sound that emulates the favourite band that they are used to copying they will need to go to a Studio to produce them (hoping that a good producer will take it in an original direction) and ultimately (were in the past) a recording companies dream, you can't disagree as i have run into person after person with fairly large success at one time with a "hard luck story" about a recording company i.e they were take to the cleaners.

2. will generally have those nice songs that you hear, they are very structured and perfect they are technically good songs but without the means to produce them they are a bit stuck, generally unless they have some sort of mid life crisis.
they will probably move to a teaching job or sell songs to pop artists.
But then and even then it is again a producer that will take that song into a different direction.

3. They will make some shitty music because they don't know how to play then by co-incidence after co-incidence they will learn to filter mix frequency analyse and master produce and eventually crack the code but when they do, they require no recording company no producer and they have a bunch of original songs.. Now it's all down to the marketing.

ultimately i believe i was force into three by an alien satellite.
becasue of a number of reasons you won't beileve, and because i still can't play but write meaninful audio art the will change peoples lives once they visualise it.

But that’s not to say anyone can't do it it’s just a choice at the start.

Not one of those numbers has any more time needed over the other one in my opinion.
we are all humans and we all have energy.

 

[pipelineaudio]

number 1 will have as originals songs A sound that emulates the favourite band that they are used to copying they will need to go to a Studio to produce them (hoping that a good producer will take it in an original direction) and ultimately (were in the past) a recording companies dream, you can't disagree as i have run into person after person with fairly large success at one time with a "hard luck story" about a recording company i.e they were take to the cleaners.

I gotta keep stepping up about this, because things keep getting mixed up that shouldn't be

record company is to studio as a Ballbearing company is to house painter

 

[johnnypig]

I hate to have my first or near first (i don't know) post being derogatory but...

You're all fuckin nuts.

I mean it in a nice way.

I am or was a professional songwriter and session guitarist. I've been practically living (edit: lived) in a couple different studios, and man, I'd give ANYTHING to have one of those rooms!!!

Now look, I know we can't all have $100k super designed Ausperger rooms, and we make best of what we got, blabla. But don't think to yourself that just cos you got a cool take in a trashy bedroom doesn't mean you wouldn't have given a nut to have recorded it somewhere special.

Touring guys and people with no free time do records in hotels. Like Aerosmith and the Eagles. But they suck! Their records sound like ass.

OK I'm done.

Cool forum anyway. I swear I'm not a dick.

Robo

 

[cusebassman]

I gotta keep stepping up about this, because things keep getting mixed up that shouldn't be

record company is to studio as a Ballbearing company is to house painter

Man, I applaud you for being able to understand "number 1". I still purport that this a troll stirring trouble, but why would one go to such trouble? Walters' posts were maybe 5 sentences long.

Even so, as far as I can tell this guy doesn't play an instrument of any kind. As such, how does he know any of the things he mumbles about in poor English? I would suppose he doesn't.

Why i continue on, I don't know (the alien satellite doesn't tell me anything, it just glows happily in the nighttime sky), but if you want to record at home, go ahead. Buy 5 dollar microphones and record in an untreated room. Have you ever used a microphone? If what you create is digital "music art" and you play no instruments, how do you have any experience with this stuff as it is?

Gah! My brain! The satellite has finally made contact, and its shouting "Troll! Troll!"

 

[eeb]

ok..

this is getting retarded..

first of all what some of you are forgetting is no matter how you record.. analogue or digital.. what plug ins you use what reverbs you use you have to understand one thing.

THESE ARE ONLY TOOLS

analogue recording is not a "way of life"

analogue recording is a tool.. a different way of achieve x result.

just because something is recorded analogue or digital .. doesn't mean it's better or worse.. that is dependant on the engineers abilities..
black bay:
here's a list for you

1.the reason people go to "pro" studios
a) because of the talent of the engineer
b) because they don't know how and don't want to learn (more focus on the music)

2. Recording studios have NOTHING to do with labels. Labels will come to a studio and purchase their services for one of their bands. They will also sometimes hire a producer. This is a completely different sanerio than johnny two tone booking studio time for his band. He'll get to the studio lay down the tracks and all the engineer does is set up the mics.. record.. edit... mix all the technical stuff that johnny two tone doesn't know how to do. (hence what you're paying for)

3. analogue is not nessisarily better than digital.. digital is not nessisarily better than analogue.. these are mediums .. they both have advantages and disadvantages.. the result is 100% dependant on THE ENGINEER

4. johnny pig said it right.. we work within our means.. if we have a studio we work with what we have.. if we have a budjet we work with in that..

 

[theblackBay]

Nice

Cusebassman:

i like your creativity.

pipeline and Ebb

first EBB

1.

a) agree i say Producer you say engineer, they can be the same.
b) agree i agreed in my previous post above my friend.


3. agree i split the hair and say Producer but, which is what this whole thread is about.

4. johnny pig was right.

2. uh oh, Pipeline and Ebb i'm afraid you guys are living in the sixties or maybe the 70's sorry friends i can provide man many examples in this narrow monopolistic market that is the Popular Music Market, Sony Studios… i mean do i even have to go on about how corporations aspire to own the whole production process, and if not own it control it.

there are independent Studios out there and good on them I’m just saying and HERES the point >>>the sound that comes back from these studio's is not that different in fact can be inferior with a better "Produced" (i.e better producer) "home" recording.

this is really my final meaningful post on this matter as Ebb has laid it out there in his post.

but don't forget the original argument which was brought about by people telling home producers that they "can't" get "the" sound. Which they can.

As we have now cleared up.

i just want to help people. i can't help (or do i care) if you think I’m crazy.
by helping each other independent artists can create their own market.
i want to kik it off. i'd like to help produce and market your next Album the BBS one, being new I’m sure you will not want that but i only ever offer things like this once.

so email if you want me to help. but all this needs to be collaborative.

 

[eeb]

Cusebassman:

i like your creativity.

pipeline and Ebb

first EBB

1.

a) agree i say Producer you say engineer, they can be the same.
b) agree i agreed in my previous post above my friend.


3. agree i split the hair and say Producer but, which is what this whole thread is about.

4. johnny pig was right.

2. uh oh, Pipeline and Ebb i'm afraid you guys are living in the sixties or maybe the 70's sorry friends i can provide man many examples in this narrow monopolistic market that is the Popular Music Market, Sony Studios… i mean do i even have to go on about how corporations aspire to own the whole production process, and if not own it control it.

there are independent Studios out there and good on them I’m just saying and HERES the point >>>the sound that comes back from these studio's is not that different in fact can be inferior with a better "Produced" (i.e better producer) "home" recording.

this is really my final meaningful post on this matter as Ebb has laid it out there in his post.

but don't forget the original argument which was brought about by people telling home producers that they "can't" get "the" sound. Which they can.

As we have now cleared up.

i just want to help people. i can't help (or do i care) if you think I’m crazy.
by helping each other independent artists can create their own market.
i want to kik it off. i'd like to help produce and market your next Album the BBS one, being new I’m sure you will not want that but i only ever offer things like this once.

so email if you want me to help. but all this needs to be collaborative.

fist of all i wasn't even close to being alive in the 60's.. i am only 25.. but that's beside the point.

you are talking about 2 different things.. I thought this post was about someone trying to record and talking about what the general forum thinks about the reasons they'd either decide to go to a recording studio or do it themselves...


when you start talking about labels you are talking about something completely different.. hence the confusion going on here..


I've recorded in many different studios... i've only recently gotten into recording myself..

I know alot of people recording in many different studios.. this has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with any label or any producer.. If an engineer is also a producer he won't produce your album for you unless you pay him to do so. I don't know what kinda fucked up studios your talking about.. I think you're just really confused on what the difference between a producer and an engineer are.. they are COMPLETELY different.. not even close..

let me give you a simplified version (anyone else correct me if i'm wrong)

a recording engineer is someone who runs the recording studio.. he sets up the mics... he tracks and edits and mixes.. this is what you pay him to do.. a recording engineer has little to no imput on the actual music being played.. his job is to simply capture the sound and make it sound good

a producer on the other hand will give suggestions (or orders depeding on the situation) and arrange a song.. he'll suggest ideas for hooks.. he'll be in a sense re-arranging the songs.. the idea (from what i gather) is a fresh set of ears to the actual song itself.. A good producer will maximize the bands talent and songwriting.. tapping into resources and ideas the band never knew they even had.. A bad one will turn a good band into a piece of shit band...

see the two things are not the same AT ALL and even a producer can have nothing to do with a label in some cases... you can get a producer to work with you even if you have no deal (you likely won't get a "name" producer) Once you start working with a label the producer's role changes a little.. Now his job is making sure your record is in the labels best interest ( again a good one can still help the band make great records while preserving the bands origianal direction.. a bad one can be a disaster to the band's original direction)

I don't think there are very many engineers that will record and produce an album for the same rate is just recording.



oh an just a note..

i didn't realize at all that we were talking about something like sony studios or whatever.. when most of us talk about going into a "pro studio" we mean a studio with good gear and an engineer who knows his shit and does that kinda work for a living.. we don't mean go to a 1,000$ an hour studio.. that's just silly.

haha imagine that..

you can't do that recording at home.. why don't you just book some time at abby road and you'll be set! hahah rediculous



but back to what you said is the point of the thread.. yes you can get great quality at home.. but it's going to take ALOT of practice and determination.. lots of reaserch and experiments..

i think what got some of us upset is you imply that you can go out and buy a cheap interface.. buy a couple radio shack mics and compete with someone who has a proper set up and years of experience. Recording takes alot of patience and skill and it's best to treat the process with respect

 

[cusebassman]

it's all just data bits on a CD anything past a $3 reject shop mic pretty much has the same frequency response as any other mic and a guitar is a fucking guitar

i think what got some of us upset is you imply that you can go out and buy a cheap interface.. buy a couple radio shack mics and compete with someone who has a proper set up and years of experience. Recording takes alot of patience and skill and it's best to treat the process with respect

Oh, he does more than imply it

 

[pipelineaudio]

2. uh oh, Pipeline and Ebb i'm afraid you guys are living in the sixties or maybe the 70's sorry friends i can provide man many examples in this narrow monopolistic market that is the Popular Music Market, Sony Studios… i mean do i even have to go on about how corporations aspire to own the whole production process, and if not own it control it.

You mean you are stuck in the 50's?

The number of studios actually owned by a major right now could probably be counted on one hand

Yes back in the 50's and 60's there were a few, so record companies could keep things in house

If sony studios are even still around, call them up and tell them you are from "makeupaname" record company and ask if you can book...youll see they will say "yes"

 

[theblackBay]

missing the Point.

you guys have taken a side issue and turned it into and argument
but i will respond

when a person (human being) Signs to a Recording Contract with a Company x they Pay for the Recording at Y Studio any recording studio ok now remember I said they wish to "own the process".

When they the company pays for the Studio they the company own the rights to the Recording instance often for perpetuity, forever.

You get maybe 6.5% after costs.


and now for the irony of this whole argument......

THE NAME OF THIS WEBSITE.

Look up at the blue logo.

Come on you have to laugh just a bit?

 

[eeb]

you guys have taken a side issue and turned it into and argument
but i will respond

when a person (human being) Signs to a Recording Contract with a Company x they Pay for the Recording at Y Studio any recording studio ok now remember I said they wish to "own the process".

When they the company pays for the Studio they the company own the rights to the Recording instance often for perpetuity, forever.

You get maybe 6.5% after costs.


and now for the irony of this whole argument......

THE NAME OF THIS WEBSITE.

Look up at the blue logo.

Come on you have to laugh just a bit?

yes all that is completely true.. (well the percentage you get depends on the deal)

that's just not what you were originally talking about.

You just seem to have a really wierd way of trying to say what you mean..

The way you originally were arguing seemed like you were saying, going to a pro studio was the same as getting signed and going to a pro studio.. at least i think some of us thought that's what you were saying.

but you're right..

and I do agree that some get alot of harshness when beginners (not unlike myself) start asking some questions and posting some songs..

it's not right.. but that's the attitude of some..

but for every prick out there there are always people willing to help and provide constructive critism

back to home recording!!

 

[Supercreep]

Listen to Priceless on my www.myspace.com/mindsetentertainmentinc
Track was recorded at a Hilton hotel room on a simple pro tools rig. Everything mixed down except my verse. It shows that equipment only matters a little, just as long as you have the tools needed to make changes. .

How about: Equipment only matters a little, so long as you aren't recording any instruments.

Mic up a 12 piece drumset at the Hilton and we'll talk.

 

[Supercreep]

anything above a $3 say $35 or $50 maybe for what you do with live sound and response maybe for you but what mic do you use a beta57? 58? yeah i think superlux makes a copy for like $45.00 same frequency response pretty much.

You are high. I've got three dynamics, they're all completely different mics with different applications. They sound different.

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

"This message is hidden because theblackBay is on your ignore list."

Ahh, the sweet sweet sound of silence