Amp Simulators vs. Micing an Amp

  • Thread starter Thread starter ChickenStomp
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Greg_L said:
Well obviously. With a sim, you don't have an amp blasting you in the face.
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Of course!

I'm just talking about the TONE...not any of that "I can't feel the speakers moving air" stuff. :D

So if I'm monitoring my tracking through headphones or through the monitors, I can usually hear the digital flavor of sims VS amps.
But it's even before that...when I'm choosing sounds, if I try a sim VS an amp, I'm usually turned off by the sim, so it never even gets to the tracking stage.

Look...there's no question that you CAN bury a sim in a mix and no one will tell...or that in some cases sims/pods are just easier for some folks than doing the whole amp/cab/mic thing...
...but that aside, if you don't like the initial tone of something, would you really go ahead and still use it just because you knew it was going to be masked in the mix in the end??? ;)
I just don't like the digital flavor of most sims I've tried when I am auditioning them...so it's never even a consideration to still use them because they will get masked in the mix.

That's got nothing to do with me not being able to tell a sim from an amp in someone's finished mix. :)
 
ChickenStomp said:
So what characteristic is it that is so easily noticeable about amp simulators. 2 people now have told me that they could tell I was using PodFarm. The reason I use it is because I can't get my recording to sound good from micing it so I just use PodFarm.

Maybe if I figure out what is so noticeable about amp simulators, I can fix it by tweaking the settings or EQ'ing or something
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Pod farm isnt very good...software wise GR4, AMplitube 3, TH2, ReValver, and Softubes Vintage room are prolly the best.....hardware wise there are more than a few out there..the early Pods have been left behind in terms of tone and quality so avoid them and some of the digitech stuff...as theyre pretty brittle sounding


Tweaking and EQing will get you some of the way but you really want a good tone going in...so spend some time getting it right..I use a v-amp pro rack and an outboard compressor as it forces me to get it right first...i sometimes run it through an amp and mic it to so you get the best of some worlds...not sure what lol

but experiment and use A/B comparisions
 
miroslav said:
Of course!

I'm just talking about the TONE...not any of that "I can't feel the speakers moving air" stuff. :D

So if I'm monitoring my tracking through headphones or through the monitors, I can usually hear the digital flavor of sims VS amps.
But it's even before that...when I'm choosing sounds, if I try a sim VS an amp, I'm usually turned off by the sim, so it never even gets to the tracking stage.

Look...there's no question that you CAN bury a sim in a mix and no one will tell...or that in some cases sims/pods are just easier for some folks than doing the whole amp/cab/mic thing...
...but that aside, if you don't like the initial tone of something, would you really go ahead and still use it just because you knew it was going to be masked in the mix in the end??? ;)
I just don't like the digital flavor of most sims I've tried when I am auditioning them...so it's never even a consideration to still use them because they will get masked in the mix.

That's got nothing to do with me not being able to tell a sim from an amp in someone's finished mix. :)
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If you say so, but what's all this "masked in the mix" nonsense? What does that even mean? Most people in modern music have their guitars loud and proud. Too loud for my tastes usually, but they're obviously not trying to hide anything. Do you record so you can whip out the soapbox and shout "these are real amps!", or do you record to make music? I think it was you that had the sig line "if it sounds good, it is good", right? I understand your point because I'd personally never in a million years use electronic drums or programmed samples because I don't get the immediate feedback of pounding on real drums. But if the end result is just making a song that sounds good then it really doesn't matter. And in the realm of home-recording, where people usually use amateur level gear at best, sims damn near always sound better than what people capture from their real amps.

I think I've said this before, but I suspect you've never used a high-end sim software.
 
Greg_L said:
If you say so, but what's all this "masked in the mix" nonsense? What does that even mean? Most people in modern music have their guitars loud and proud. Too loud for my tastes usually, but they're obviously not trying to hide anything. Do you record so you can whip out the soapbox and shout "these are real amps!", or do you record to make music?
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I never really make a point of mentioning anywhere the instruments or techniques I use to record a specific song...so really, I'm not shouting anything about "using real amps".
AFA masking...everyone (not just me) keeps repeating that "in a mix you can't tell it's a sim"...so that sure sounds to me like those people are really saying, " I know it's a sim, but no one will be able to tell when it's in a mix". ;)

AFA "high-end" sim software...I'm not sure which software specifically you are referring to. If there is something you want me to check out that I can demo for free...tell me, but I'm not going to go buy a "high-end" sim pack just to try it out.
Again...my main beef with most sims I've tried/heard is when you just hear the sim in the room. I don't really care or consider that it may not be noticeable later on in a mix.
If you think I'm just saying that to beat my chest about "real amps" or that I've not ever heard "good" sims to know...well, I can't really prove it to you...but side-by-side, up to now, I've easily heard a difference in a digital sim VS an amp, in the room when I'm playing it. That matters to me.

I think when people just use a LOT of sims and they dial through only sims all day long, their ears maybe get use to that, and after awhile they just pick which sim they like or dislike....so they are not really comparing sims directly to any amps. If they have nothing but one or two "so-so" amps, and they don't have good mics/techniques to record them with...then yeah, in the end, for them, sims may win out.


Greg_L said:
I think it was you that had the sig line "if it sounds good, it is good", right? I understand your point because I'd personally never in a million years use electronic drums or programmed samples because I don't get the immediate feedback of pounding on real drums. But if the end result is just making a song that sounds good then it really doesn't matter. And in the realm of home-recording, where people usually use amateur level gear at best, sims damn near always sound better than what people capture from their real amps.
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Yes...I am a proponent of doing what you have to do make the end product sound as best as you can. I don't have a problem with that approach.
I'm just saying that for me, sims are not my first choice if I can get there with a real amp, because I CAN hear the digital flavor of sims while I'm auditioning the tones and also when tracking...and I don't really like what I hear. I can get better tones recorded with one of my amps.
Not sure why that statement would bother anyone or why ianyone would think I'm just making it up so I can shout "I use real amps"...? :)
If anything...I find that the dedictated sim/pod users do a lot more shouting about how great their tones are and that they have no need for real amps. :D

Oh...the OP that started the thread brought this all up...so I'm not making it a point to just slam sims or shouting about using real amps.
I have no desire or interest to convert sim users into "real amp" users...or any such thing., I just post up my own epxeriences with sims/amps...and so far, I'm still leaning toward using real amps in my own work.
 
Dude...I'm just responding to all the counter-posts. :)

Heck...even Greg is writting long posts for a change! :D
Besides....all the same people always say the same things in this ongoing debate about sims/amps....on the sims side and on the amp side. I've actually toned down my view of sims over the last year....for the good of the debate. ;)
 
I don't have any amp sims... stuck in the stone age... I have to pedal a bike for 3 hours to generate the 'lectricity to run the amp for one power chord..... recording's a slooooow process...
 
I need 'em all. I have a shit load of sims and a fair amount of amps. When tracking with a full band I like the ease of a sim. But now I have a couple of amp vaults so I can get away with a amp or two and still get some isolation. At the end of the day, out of all the toys I own or have experience with, I feel an actual amp records better than the sims. In that I mean it always seems to "sit" in a mix easier than a sim. Not that I don't use sim tracks on tunes I record. I absolutely do. If it sounds good, it is good.
 
Ok then, I think I got my answer. Didn't really think this was going to turn into an epic debate, but I don't mind lol. Please continue
*Grabs Popcorn
 
ChickenStomp said:
Ok then, I think I got my answer. Didn't really think this was going to turn into an epic debate, but I don't mind lol. Please continue
*Grabs Popcorn
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Thank goodness you didn't mention putting the amp in an isolation cabinet.... place would go crazy...
 
I think one of the reasons I've had trouble sometimes deciding if I think a guitar tone on a recording is a sim or a real mic/amp is not because I think some sims sound so good, but rather because I've heard about a million absolutely horrendous mic/amp guitar tracks in mixes and sometimes when I hear those, I THINK they might be sims. Just a thought.

I have heard some good sims, though, and even used them before. The last EP I played on, the guy was fond of using an original desktop unit Vox Tonelab (the blue one with the tube in it) and I was more than impressed with how it sounded in the final mix - and I'm talking straight up heavy modern rock guitars with lots of gain.

If we're talking clean guitars, that's a MUCH easily thing to simulate convincingly than hi gain tracks.
 
Miro, I wasn't accusing you of anything. Calm down bro. :)


I personally use quality amps and quality sims. If someone wants to take a crack at listening to my stuff and trying to figure out what's what, I'm all ears. :)
 
I was/am calm, bro. :)
I just wanted to clarify my views on sims since the OP did ask for opinions about amps VS sims...and since it always turns into such a sore spot on both sides of the fence no matter how either side trys to present their views. ;)

I'm not an absolute hater of sims/pods, and I have used them in the past when I really didn't have a good selection of decent amps.
It's mostly in the way I hear them when auditioning & tracking...but I agree they can often fit into a mix well, and that under certain situations (no real/decent amps, need to work quietly, not happy/able to mic cabs well enough, etc...) a sim may be the better/easier option for a lot of people.
Like I said...if it works for you...use it! :cool:
 
:D

I think you're on to something....could end up being the signal chain to die for! ;)
 
I think there should be an amp sim for each category

1. Rock
2. Country
3. Metal
4. Pop
5. More Rock
6. Rocky Country
7. Pop Rock Country


hang on I think Im getting my threads confused :confused: :D
 
Hey...I'm sorry....I wasn't trying to leave you out in the other thread, it was just an example for Chater-La (since she asked)...
...but if it makes you feel any better, here ya go:

A. Classic Rock
B. Pop
C. Metal
D. Country
E. Alt Rock
F. Techno/Electronic

:D

There will always be a place for you on these forums.... ;)
 
wow, didn't know everyone was so passionate about this. I think I'm going to mic my POD from now on to make everyone happy! Nah, I'll just make myself happy and do whatever I want!
 
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