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valacirca
New member
The budget is in the OP
What I'm already considering so far are the Bugera V22 & a Vox AC4 head + 1x12 cab
What I'm already considering so far are the Bugera V22 & a Vox AC4 head + 1x12 cab
Bristol Posse
Okey Dokey
No worries
And I am as uncredentialed as any one else
I personally wouldn't take the opinion of a guy at a gig, a music store or anyone else even if I know them (which is why a lot of people find me frustrating I guess) as to how I should spend my money. My favorite words are why and how.
If I'm looking at what's best for me in my recording goals then I tend to try and see rather than ask and hope and I'm not much concerned if it's what anyone else does or if it's how the pros do it. If it works and I like it I do it. If it's what everyone else is doing and I try and it doesn't work for me I'll be a stick in the mud and say nope that doesn't work for me so I don't care how good it is I'm not doing it.
Many of the threads on these foums are thought provoking and I find it of interest what others do. But unless they are using identical gear in an identical manner in a similar room set up on very similar material then ultimately it's only of academic interest. In the end I prefer to test and see how things work on my setup/gear rather than worry what someone else, doing totally different stuff on totaly different gear thinks
acidrock
GO PACKERS!
Use freeware and buy an amp,best of both worlds.
I like this one......
http://frettedsynth.home.att.net/
I like this one......
http://frettedsynth.home.att.net/
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I didn't think the OP's question was that complicated, asking about entire setups...it was just a basic amp VS. sim question.
Heck...I didn't even recommend a specific amp to him.
IMHO...there's no situation where a sim is *better* than a good amp...it's always just an *alternative* to a good amp.
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valacirca
New member
Yeah... I think conventional wisdom would dictate that a sim/model shouldn't be better than the real thing. Although there's still the factor of me not being able to crank up my amp too much.
Would an audio sample of what I can record with the cheap Audio-Technica mic + MG30DFX help you guys have an idea of what volume levels I'm talking about in any way?
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
a-t-t-e-n-u-a-t-o-r
A lower wattage amp...20W or less...along with an attenuator...and you wll not have any problems getting great tones at lower levels.
Stick the amp inside a full closet...and can even crank it up a bit.
Washburn100
New member
Interesting thought? I think a lot has to do with how or if you embrace technology.
First, what is the real thing. The sound, tone... One way to get there is with an amp. In the past before computers and modeling, it was the only way. Now computers have some incredible abilities so what do we do with that "new technology"? Try to reproduce or emulate analog tube stuff. Hell, the developers even try to make the gui look like the original stuff.
Give a child a toy and they emulate their parents and play grown up. Eventually, we will find new ways to use all the cpu's in new ways.
The resonator guitar was invented to make a guitar loud enough to keep up with horns pre amplification. Well when we invented amps, the resonator guitar didn't go away, it spawned a new style/sound! What did we do? Try to make amps to emulate it.
Distortion was just a guy driving an amp too loud and used it.
Now, the important question is - how the hell did I get on this tangent and get so philosophical? Shit, I haven't even been drinkin.
So back to the original question. What is the best amp these days, and I only want the correct answer, screw your opinions!
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Chibi Nappa
New member
I'm not talking about software amp modelers btw guys... I mean something like this:
We have one of those in our house. Here's the thing:
I already have an amp that I love with a guitar that I love. The Pod XT Live is fan-freaking-tastic when I play it with my guitar through my guitar amp. 60% of the time I bypass it, but when I need it to do something, it does it very well.
Without a guitar amp... it is completely usable yet completely forgettable. Yeah, you can get "professional", but it is an almost oppressively bland "professional".
You really need an amp first. Like I said above, my two amp channels are my two killer tones. That is all I need. I can do a show or make an album like that. Once my need is filled... yeah, 40 or 60 other tones are really, really nice to have. But 60 tones of sugar frosting are nothing without the work horse to carry it all.
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Chibi Nappa
New member
A few months ago I did a show for a punk-ish/pop-ish band. This guy had an amp from the 60's with no distortion section or nothin'. Just a single clean channel. He played with literally every knob turned up as high as they went. No stomp boxes anywhere. Even with a Power Brake between the head and the cabinet it was loud enough to wake the dead. And on the recording it was the smoothest, meanest, growlin'est, ...nicest sounding distortion I've ever put to disk.
The real thing is amazing. Some day I hope to have it too.
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Chibi Nappa
New member
That's exactly it. I've had the same amp for about 10 years now (even though I've only owned it for about 5 it has been in my constant possession. Woo hoo for being the guy who owns the rehearsal space!
. And shoot, I still technically don't own it since I bought it for my wife... ).Anyway, there is never the feeling of "this needs refreshing" or "this needs upgrading". It is just my sound. 10 years on and the sound brings me a genuine happy feeling.
A sim does not do that.
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valacirca
New member
FWIW, here's a sample of what loudness I can record with my cheap Audio-Technica mic and the MG30DFX.
It's just a simple chord progression sloppily done during lunch break so pardon the playing.
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=22473
It's just a simple chord progression sloppily done during lunch break so pardon the playing.
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=22473
T
Thurgood
New member
Damn i wrote this 20 minutes ago and got side tracked. Hope it is still helpful.
I kinda like the buy the amp use the freeware. I am blessed to have a couple of nice amps that I use frequently and I also use the Pod x3, xt and even...... a vamp pro. I find nice tones throughout. Before owning the external ampsim devices (pod) I used tube amps and standard dynamic microphones (sm 57/58/ md 421). I recorded in a small apt. faced the limitations of small space and neighbors. When the dwelling was occupied I used Master volume and an attenuator as needed. Probably not the best "tone" since the amps were operating at less than optimum saturation but with proper eq and an ear for WHERE THE GUITAR FITS IN THE MIX, you can do a good job. In come the amp sims, convenient, line level output and lots of tonal opportunities. The Simulanalog free plug is very cool I used it all the time (and still do), Amplitube is good but hoggy and Waves has been a second choice. Note: my pc is old.. My last bit is to suggest demo of Sims (computer), POD if you can try one and inquire about amplifiers in the 5-30 watt range. Also it may be advantageous to have more than one type of speaker cabinet. My Fender Deluxe is a different creature when using the stock speaker vs. a 2x 12 closed back blue dog cab. Please remember the appropriate "tone" varies dramatically depending upon the context. Case in point: I am fond of singing, warm Carlos'ish tones but the song I was working on totally settled in with a dry "way treble" oh so bad sounding modeled fender champ tone. Go figure. It tied the room together. Man.
I kinda like the buy the amp use the freeware. I am blessed to have a couple of nice amps that I use frequently and I also use the Pod x3, xt and even...... a vamp pro. I find nice tones throughout. Before owning the external ampsim devices (pod) I used tube amps and standard dynamic microphones (sm 57/58/ md 421). I recorded in a small apt. faced the limitations of small space and neighbors. When the dwelling was occupied I used Master volume and an attenuator as needed. Probably not the best "tone" since the amps were operating at less than optimum saturation but with proper eq and an ear for WHERE THE GUITAR FITS IN THE MIX, you can do a good job. In come the amp sims, convenient, line level output and lots of tonal opportunities. The Simulanalog free plug is very cool I used it all the time (and still do), Amplitube is good but hoggy and Waves has been a second choice. Note: my pc is old.. My last bit is to suggest demo of Sims (computer), POD if you can try one and inquire about amplifiers in the 5-30 watt range. Also it may be advantageous to have more than one type of speaker cabinet. My Fender Deluxe is a different creature when using the stock speaker vs. a 2x 12 closed back blue dog cab. Please remember the appropriate "tone" varies dramatically depending upon the context. Case in point: I am fond of singing, warm Carlos'ish tones but the song I was working on totally settled in with a dry "way treble" oh so bad sounding modeled fender champ tone. Go figure. It tied the room together. Man.
ocnor
Lord Of The Thighs
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valacirca
New member
^ wat.
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G-Jay
New member
Hey Valacirca,
This issue always becomes like a religious war but there is no right or wrong answer.
It's down to the way YOU want to work and the results YOU want to achieve.
In an ideal world I prefer a real amp. HOWEVER given your small room size and proximity of neighbours you have some major limitations there.
Even a really low watt tube amp sounds LOUD.
Amplitube 3 or a POD will probably give you way better results in general than your solid state Marshall and cheap mic. You said you want to upgrade the mic and amp. How much are Shure SM57s in your part of the world? I'm in South Korea and they go for about $150 here.
That would leave you $350 for an amp. How much are amps in your part of the world? In Korea they are substantially more expensive that US/European prices. There aren't many great amps going for $350. How's the used market where you are at?
An amp sim will give you multiple tones, let you record at any time day or night and in the mix they sound pretty good - miles better than bad amps in bad rooms with bad mics.
If you decided to do a critical recording later on down the line then you could rent a real amp and mic for the session.
The only person who knows the answer is YOU. Be honest about your budget, needs, and situation and make your choice.
Maybe you could get a demo version of some modeling software and give it a spin.
This issue always becomes like a religious war but there is no right or wrong answer.
It's down to the way YOU want to work and the results YOU want to achieve.
In an ideal world I prefer a real amp. HOWEVER given your small room size and proximity of neighbours you have some major limitations there.
Even a really low watt tube amp sounds LOUD.
Amplitube 3 or a POD will probably give you way better results in general than your solid state Marshall and cheap mic. You said you want to upgrade the mic and amp. How much are Shure SM57s in your part of the world? I'm in South Korea and they go for about $150 here.
That would leave you $350 for an amp. How much are amps in your part of the world? In Korea they are substantially more expensive that US/European prices. There aren't many great amps going for $350. How's the used market where you are at?
An amp sim will give you multiple tones, let you record at any time day or night and in the mix they sound pretty good - miles better than bad amps in bad rooms with bad mics.
If you decided to do a critical recording later on down the line then you could rent a real amp and mic for the session.
The only person who knows the answer is YOU. Be honest about your budget, needs, and situation and make your choice.
Maybe you could get a demo version of some modeling software and give it a spin.
timkroeger
Custom Title User
Hey G, you beat me to it, but I already wrote it, so here it goes
I'd go about it like this:
Are you going to play live (jam, gig)? Is there even a remote possibility that you're going to play live, instead of just doing recording?
You already got a lot of information and opinions here, so you take all that into account and need to decide now. Is it worth doing more tests with software amp simulators? I'd strongly suggest you download at least the newest demo versions of amplitube and guitar rig 4. I personally like GR4 but I wouldn't use it to gig. The simulation hast improved since version 3. I wouldn't have used GR3 for recording. GR4 is in a different league altogether with it's new "control room" cab simulation. So now answer the bold question above.
Do you like the amp modeler in question that you have tested?
Why am I emphasizing the amp simulators? Because testing it is free just like asking questions on this forum is. You got opinions and advice and should take everything with a grain of salt because everyone comes from a different background and e.g. what works for me needn't necessarily work for you. But testing the simulators is free, so there's some more info in it for you, you just need to make up your mind on your own about that.
Now, if you go with an amp, deciding on what amp to buy is a different question but I'm certain you can find a good amp that won't exceed your $500 budget. Personally I like Vox amps but I am biased since I have not owned any amps other than Vox. There you go, fanboy Since you are not able to test the amps due to missing return policies, you may be able to get some info off the manufacturers site (soundclips) and of course from this board and their members. Maybe someone has soundclips of their amps that would fit your budget. Remember that professional soundclips from amp manufacturers are recorded in full fledged studios so it won't sound the same if you hook up a simple mic to it and record away. Remember also that different people have different opinions and different experience. I don't have that much recording or amp model experience so I try and leave my opinion out of the equasion but some people do the exact opposite. The lower their experience is, the stronger their opinion becomes. So it's your job to research and gauge people's experience with the topic in question, and then take their opinion into account and rate it as useful or not useful. It's hard work but if you have to rely on other people's opinions as this might be the case here for you, it's the only way to actually get valuable information for yourself and your use case.
Cheers
Tim
I'd go about it like this:
Are you going to play live (jam, gig)? Is there even a remote possibility that you're going to play live, instead of just doing recording?
- yes: Buy an amp. Stop.
- no: Proceed.
You already got a lot of information and opinions here, so you take all that into account and need to decide now. Is it worth doing more tests with software amp simulators? I'd strongly suggest you download at least the newest demo versions of amplitube and guitar rig 4. I personally like GR4 but I wouldn't use it to gig. The simulation hast improved since version 3. I wouldn't have used GR3 for recording. GR4 is in a different league altogether with it's new "control room" cab simulation. So now answer the bold question above.
- yes: Then do it, test the software, see if you like it. Then proceed.
- no: Proceed.
Do you like the amp modeler in question that you have tested?
- yes: Try it some more and eventually buy it. Stop.
- no: Buy an amp. Stop.
Why am I emphasizing the amp simulators? Because testing it is free just like asking questions on this forum is. You got opinions and advice and should take everything with a grain of salt because everyone comes from a different background and e.g. what works for me needn't necessarily work for you. But testing the simulators is free, so there's some more info in it for you, you just need to make up your mind on your own about that.
Now, if you go with an amp, deciding on what amp to buy is a different question but I'm certain you can find a good amp that won't exceed your $500 budget. Personally I like Vox amps but I am biased since I have not owned any amps other than Vox. There you go, fanboy
Since you are not able to test the amps due to missing return policies, you may be able to get some info off the manufacturers site (soundclips) and of course from this board and their members. Maybe someone has soundclips of their amps that would fit your budget. Remember that professional soundclips from amp manufacturers are recorded in full fledged studios so it won't sound the same if you hook up a simple mic to it and record away. Remember also that different people have different opinions and different experience. I don't have that much recording or amp model experience so I try and leave my opinion out of the equasion but some people do the exact opposite. The lower their experience is, the stronger their opinion becomes. So it's your job to research and gauge people's experience with the topic in question, and then take their opinion into account and rate it as useful or not useful. It's hard work but if you have to rely on other people's opinions as this might be the case here for you, it's the only way to actually get valuable information for yourself and your use case.Cheers
Tim
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valacirca
New member
I'll try GR and Amplitube tonight and then get back to this thread
I hope they're much more useable than Acme Bar Gig...
I hope they're much more useable than Acme Bar Gig...
timkroeger
Custom Title User
I have tried Acme Bar Gig and I didn't like it that much but I suppose you could get usable tones out of it. It just depends on the use case. Be sure to check out www.softube.se, too as WavePro suggested (Vintage Amp Room and Metal Amp Room). I've been to their site und it "looks" promising. Of course everyone claims to provide THE real sound but you'll have to figure it out yourself.
Cheers
Tim
Cheers
Tim
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valacirca
New member
I dunno... I found Acme Bar Gig hardly useable at all...
How does one usually use these software amp modelers, btw? By feeding then a DI-signal or feeding them a signal from a mic'ed cab?
I might try both later, but I just wanted to know.
How does one usually use these software amp modelers, btw? By feeding then a DI-signal or feeding them a signal from a mic'ed cab?
I might try both later, but I just wanted to know.
timkroeger
Custom Title User
You use it via a high impedance input (preamp/DI -> interface -> computer) also known as Hi-Z input. Since the software simulates amp and cabinet you don't want to have a real amp/cabinet/mic combination in front of it.
Basically you plug your guitar into your interface or your DI box and then into your interface. I'd say the less components, the better. Also the higher the quality of the input stage, the better are the results. Amps mostly have an input impedance of about 1 M Ohm, if I'm not mistaken. Your DI box is rated with >250k Ohm so you guitar may sound a little muddy through the DI if it is not significantly higher than 250k. As >250k could actually be anything from 251k to several MOhm, it comes down to testing it yourself again Behringer mentions the use case of direct guitar recording in their manuals so I suppose (they think) it's ok. If you don't want to upgrade instantly, I'd say just run the guitar through your DI -> mixer -> interface into your computer, just as I suspect you did before.
Here is a simple - albeit dated - article about direct guitar recording.
Cheers
Tim
Basically you plug your guitar into your interface or your DI box and then into your interface. I'd say the less components, the better. Also the higher the quality of the input stage, the better are the results. Amps mostly have an input impedance of about 1 M Ohm, if I'm not mistaken. Your DI box is rated with >250k Ohm so you guitar may sound a little muddy through the DI if it is not significantly higher than 250k. As >250k could actually be anything from 251k to several MOhm, it comes down to testing it yourself again
Behringer mentions the use case of direct guitar recording in their manuals so I suppose (they think) it's ok. If you don't want to upgrade instantly, I'd say just run the guitar through your DI -> mixer -> interface into your computer, just as I suspect you did before.Here is a simple - albeit dated - article about direct guitar recording.
Cheers
Tim
