Amp + mic (recabinet 4) suggestions?

andrushkiwt

andrushkiwt

Well-known member
so, for those who have heard my tracks here might recognize the Mesa Boogie knock-off I'm going for by using Lepou Lecto and Recabinet 4's Oversize cab. Based on Mesa Boogie dual rec plus cab. Recab has a dozen or so cabs plus mics. For mics I usually use the Audix i5 hard left and the 545 hard right (for heavy choruses). Just like the actual manual for the i5, I find it has a buildup around 150hz and is top heavy as well, meaning i have to roll off around 5khz or so, it's very bright but has the mid range i'm seeking.

i'm wondering if anyone is experienced with the modern alternative guitar sound and has any recommendations for cabs and mics in this style (that Recab offers). Yes, I can select each one and see for myself, but I'm really just wondering what ppl are using/seeing out there. Here's an example of the sound i'm pretty much after (and I think the setup i'm using now is pretty close):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQaNLKgw714

FFWD to about 0:55 for the heavy chorus.

the mic options in Recab 4 are:

57 – based on a Shure SM57
545 – based on a Shure Unidyne III 545
121 – based on a Royer 121
409 – based on a Sennheiser MD409
421 – based on a Sennheiser MD421
i5 – based on an Audix i5
Reference – based on an Earthworks M30
U87 – based on a Neumann U87

i just don't like the sound out of the Neumann on the distorted guitars, and for a $3k+ mic, I was expecting to use that option a lot...i know it's a sim knock-off, but the others don't sound bad at all.

cab models are:

1960 – based on a Marshall 1960AV 4×12
Angora – based on a Line 6 Vetta 4×12
Blackface 4×10 – based on a Fender ’65 Super Reverb 4×10
Chordal – based on a Roland JC120
Damien – based on a Marshall 1936 2×12
Dazed – based on a Supro Thunderbolt
Eagle – based on an ENGL Pro 4×12
Excel – based on a Randall RS412XLT100 4×12
Genzie – based on a Genz Benz G-Flex ported 2×12
Green – based on an original 1970s Marshall 4×12
Igor – based on a Krank Krankenstein 4×12
Ogre – based on a Bogner Uberkab 4×12
Oversize – based on a Mesa Standard 4×12
Sterling – based on a Marshall Hand Wired 4×12 (late 1960s reissue)
Tangerine – based on an Orange 4×12
Top Boost – based on a Vox AC30
Tweed 1×12 – based on a Fender ’53 Deluxe 1×12
Zodiac 2×12 – based on a Selmer Zodiac Twin 30

So i use the Oversize cab plus an amp made by Lepou called Lecto (dual rectifier sim). This gives me the closest to a MB setup as I can get for practically nothing! Are there any combinations in there that stick out to you as "modern alternative" that you suggest I try? Like the 1960 cab through a 57 for example.

I'm not a gear guy. I'm a songwriter, multi-instrumentalist, and music composition dude...gear, amps, guitars, pickups aren't my thing, and I've been able to get good sounds with what I'm using from some helpful members here.

Looking forward to any advice and hopefully not a lot of "select it and try it out". just curious what mic + cab options ppl think of when they hear "modern heavy alternative".

thanks!
 
Mate, just listening to that track you youtubed. I don't think that really sounds like any sort of amp-cab-mic combination. I think it sounds like something that's had a shit-load of post processing on it. The guitar tone on "Your Sympathy" from your SoundCloud is better than that.
 
The only thing I would say is to try using the royer or the senn 421 instead of the 545 alongside the i5. The 545, from what I can tell, is the predecessor of the SM57 (also a good mic) but you're essentially stacking dynamic mics. May not work the same within the software but I've gotten great results on heavier tones by using an i5 (or 57) along with a ribbon and blending the two. May or may not help, that's just my $0.02.
 
JDOD said:
Mate, just listening to that track you youtubed. I don't think that really sounds like any sort of amp-cab-mic combination. I think it sounds like something that's had a shit-load of post processing on it.
Click to expand...

:thumbs up:

Nothing very "signature" in that sound, either...unless if by "modern" you mean very "un-guitar" like tones, in which case amp/cab/mic may not do the trick for you.
 
Recab 4 is a great cab sim dude, I posted some clips using it a couple months back, & most of the guys in the Tone Thread said it sounded pretty realistic for a sim...You've just gotta roll up your sleeves & dig into what you have to work with to get the best out of it IMO....Poulin's ampsims are (of course all this is subjective, & YMMV) as good as the commercial/payware ampsims IMHO, but again, you've gotta dig into 'em to find what you're after...

That said, you're going for a totally different sound than what I'd go for, but again, you've just gotta roll up your sleeves & dig into it man. Try things that you normally wouldn't try if you were using the actual gear modeled in the software...

I know this isn't what you were asking, but IMO, doing this would help you learn rather than have someone dial the gear in for you....
 
Following up from the what Miner said, get some short clips of what you're getting posted up the The New Tone thread along with some examples of what you want.

Having spent ages (actually years) fannying about with sims thinking they were the best way to get a clear sound recorded for a home setting I just started sticking an SM57 in front of a cranked amp and I'm pretty content.
 
JDOD said:
Mate, just listening to that track you youtubed. I don't think that really sounds like any sort of amp-cab-mic combination. I think it sounds like something that's had a shit-load of post processing on it. The guitar tone on "Your Sympathy" from your SoundCloud is better than that.
Click to expand...

well, first, i think the version on youtube is multiple generations out. It wasn't a crystal clear version. I have that album and the tracks don't sound like that, but if you are saying this while realizing that, then I'm curious what type of processing they are doing there? Additional compression and EQ? And thanks for the compliment on my track...that's the setup I mentioned above, Lepou Lecto (dual rec) through Recab's Oversize (mesa boogie 4x12) with some mic combination...may or may not be the i5 plus 545, could be a different one. But that really helps hearing that someone likes those tones. I'll check that project file and see what mics I had going there.
 
pikingrin said:
The only thing I would say is to try using the royer or the senn 421 instead of the 545 alongside the i5. The 545, from what I can tell, is the predecessor of the SM57 (also a good mic) but you're essentially stacking dynamic mics. May not work the same within the software but I've gotten great results on heavier tones by using an i5 (or 57) along with a ribbon and blending the two. May or may not help, that's just my $0.02.
Click to expand...

yeah, that's what I'm after...thanks! I'm just looking for what someone would grab if they had access to these mics and cabs and wanted that modern alternative sound. I can fiddle all day and night, and after awhile I'll lose all perspective. "try a dynamic plus a ribbon" is a good idea. I'll see what that combination does and how it sounds. thanks
 
miroslav said:
:thumbs up:

Nothing very "signature" in that sound, either...unless if by "modern" you mean very "un-guitar" like tones, in which case amp/cab/mic may not do the trick for you.
Click to expand...

what is it then? i think it's just a solid wall, you can hear the chords but can't really make out what's going on exactly... but it's supporting the other instrumentation and track nicely, IMO.
 
andrushkiwt said:
well, first, i think the version on youtube is multiple generations out. It wasn't a crystal clear version. I have that album and the tracks don't sound like that, but if you are saying this while realizing that, then I'm curious what type of processing they are doing there? Additional compression and EQ? And thanks for the compliment on my track...that's the setup I mentioned above, Lepou Lecto (dual rec) through Recab's Oversize (mesa boogie 4x12) with some mic combination...may or may not be the i5 plus 545, could be a different one. But that really helps hearing that someone likes those tones. I'll check that project file and see what mics I had going there.
Click to expand...

Well, like Miro said, that track barely sounds like guitar. Its been compressed to death (probably made worse by YouTube) and its had a lot of EQ work done - it doesn't sound natural at all. In fact, its actually quite hard to hear 'cos it just disappears in the mix. It also seems to have had other work done on it, something more than that but I can't place it 'cos I just don't know enough. It sounds like the guitar version of a ropey looking bird that's had lots of plastic surgery.
 
andrushkiwt said:
what is it then? i think it's just a solid wall, you can hear the chords but can't really make out what's going on exactly... but it's supporting the other instrumentation and track nicely, IMO.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you can't really hear it. Why not just use a keyboard?
 
minerman said:
Recab 4 is a great cab sim dude, I posted some clips using it a couple months back, & most of the guys in the Tone Thread said it sounded pretty realistic for a sim...You've just gotta roll up your sleeves & dig into what you have to work with to get the best out of it IMO....Poulin's ampsims are (of course all this is subjective, & YMMV) as good as the commercial/payware ampsims IMHO, but again, you've gotta dig into 'em to find what you're after...

That said, you're going for a totally different sound than what I'd go for, but again, you've just gotta roll up your sleeves & dig into it man. Try things that you normally wouldn't try if you were using the actual gear modeled in the software...

I know this isn't what you were asking, but IMO, doing this would help you learn rather than have someone dial the gear in for you....
Click to expand...

Thanks. Again, I'm just wondering what someone would set up if they had these options in front of them - i'm not going to live or die by their word...i'll try it out and see what i think. like the above post, combining a dynamic with a ribbon is a good idea.

Put it this way, if a big budget studio had all those mics and cabs, and the band came in and said "we want it to sound like...", what would the engineer go for? no right or wrong answers, just looking for opinions. i'll try them out and see how i feel about it. And yes, i'm totally aware I can sit there all day and not talk about it with anyone...and that's what I do. lol. so, i'm just asking around.

---------- Update ----------

JDOD said:
Yeah, you can't really hear it. Why not just use a keyboard?
Click to expand...

it probably is something electronic...or there's a synth on top of it masking/blending with the guitar
 
andrushkiwt said:
Thanks. Again, I'm just wondering what someone would set up if they had these options in front of them - i'm not going to live or die by their word...i'll try it out and see what i think. like the above post, combining a dynamic with a ribbon is a good idea.

Put it this way, if a big budget studio had all those mics and cabs, and the band came in and said "we want it to sound like...", what would the engineer go for? no right or wrong answers, just looking for opinions. i'll try them out and see how i feel about it. And yes, i'm totally aware I can sit there all day and not talk about it with anyone...and that's what I do. lol. so, i'm just asking around.
Click to expand...
Try to find out what gear the band you wanna sound like uses, then use whatever approximation of said gear to start with. IE: Mesa amps: Poulin's freebie Mesa sim would be a great place to start....Same thing with the cabs, most likely, it'll be a Mesa cab with some sort of V30 speaker. Go through the mic combinations until you think it's close enough....Most likely, the '57 will be in there somewhere, probably blended with a darker sounding mic for the chunk/bottom....


You could also try the Ultimate Metal Forum Andy Sneap section for more tips about that kinda sound too dude, most of the guys here (including me) are more into older sounding tones (AC-DC-ish stuff, I really haven't seen many regulars going for the modern Mesa type thing here...)...
 
minerman said:
Try to find out what gear the band you wanna sound like uses, then use whatever approximation of said gear to start with. IE: Mesa amps: Poulin's freebie Mesa sim would be a great place to start....Same thing with the cabs, most likely, it'll be a Mesa cab with some sort of V30 speaker. Go through the mic combinations until you think it's close enough....Most likely, the '57 will be in there somewhere, probably blended with a darker sounding mic for the chunk/bottom....


You could also try the Ultimate Metal Forum Andy Sneap section for more tips about that kinda sound too dude, most of the guys here (including me) are more into older sounding tones (AC-DC-ish stuff, I really haven't seen many regulars going for the modern Mesa type thing here...)...
Click to expand...

thank you. FYI, i mentioned in the first post that I'm using Lepou's Lecto (Poulin is the name of another amp of his, it's not the Mesa Boogie) currently. I'm combining it with Recabinet 4's Mesa Boogie cab. It's very good and so very close to the sound, but then I started wondering about mics and if there's some rationale to which mic would more suit the job more so than another. I do like the MB combo, but I thought I'd throw it in the post to see if someone had a suggestion for a different cab, even though that's my top choice. Really though, the mic combinations for L and R channel is my main question. "57 with something darker" is what I'm looking for in ideas. thanks for that, and for all the responses.
 
andrushkiwt said:
thank you. FYI, i mentioned in the first post that I'm using Lepou's Lecto (Poulin is the name of another amp of his, it's not the Mesa Boogie) currently. I'm combining it with Recabinet 4's Mesa Boogie cab. It's very good and so very close to the sound, but then I started wondering about mics and if there's some rationale to which mic would more suit the job more so than another. I do like the MB combo, but I thought I'd throw it in the post to see if someone had a suggestion for a different cab, even though that's my top choice. Really though, the mic combinations for L and R channel is my main question. "57 with something darker" is what I'm looking for in ideas. thanks for that, and for all the responses.
Click to expand...
Yeah dude, I know what you're using, I read it in your OP, & I have everything Poulin/LePou has released. For freebies, they're right up there with Amplitube & Guitar Rig to me. It's actually hard to believe they sound so good, & they're free...Rumor has it he's working on some new stuff, but I have no idea what or when it's supposed to be released, but again, for freebies, you really can't beat his plug-ins....

For the mic combination, you could even try a '57 on each cab, with one high-passed to cut all the high end, just getting the rumble/chunk...You could even do all that inside Recab 4 with it's built-in eq section for each cab...

FWIW, I think Recab 4 is the best cab sim out there today, that I've tried anyway, YMMV...I really like AT4's new speaker selection, & a lot of 'em are pretty close to how the real deal sounds, but I usually try to get all I can out of one ampsim, but, there are benefits to the mix-n-match thing too...

Good luck, & maybe post up a tone in the Tone Thread, you might get some more help there....
 
minerman said:
For the mic combination, you could even try a '57 on each cab, with one high-passed to cut all the high end, just getting the rumble/chunk...You could even do all that inside Recab 4 with it's built-in eq section for each cab...
Click to expand...

Thanks for that idea, i'll check it out. Yeah i'll consider putting something up in there, good idea. thanks again
 
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