Amp help

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JaredxSmith

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Hey guys, please excuse my complete nooby-ness but I've got a question for you dudes.

My guitarist currently has only a 30w amp and we're looking to upgrade soon to 100w. We're 16 and don't have jobs so we're pretty broke and looking for a money saving solution. I was wondering if we run his 30w amp and also running it through a 120w cab would make it sound like 60w, or just a more 'full' 30w sound.

Thanks a lot!
 
The speakers themselves have no power. That 120watt is what they can handle, not how loud they are. Your 30w amp will probably sound different, and maybe somewhat louder if there are more speakers in that cab, but not double the wattage.

Something else to consider - 60 watts will only sound 3dB louder than 30 watts at its max volume. That's barely perceptible as a difference. To get twice as loud as a 30 watt would require 300 watts.

30 watts is giggable - especially with a PA. My suggestion, if you like the sound that you have, is to get another 30 watt amp. It will only get you that extra 3 dB more or less, but if you go from there to 100 watts, you get less than 3dB more, which again, is barely perceptible. Is it worth the expense for 100 watts? If you are happy with your sound, then probably not.
 
What kind of gigs are you playing? Or is this for practice only? Are you trying to get louder than the drums? What kind of PA do you have?
 
ReInventor said:
The speakers themselves have no power. That 120watt is what they can handle, not how loud they are. Your 30w amp will probably sound different, and maybe somewhat louder if there are more speakers in that cab, but not double the wattage.

Something else to consider - 60 watts will only sound 3dB louder than 30 watts at its max volume. That's barely perceptible as a difference. To get twice as loud as a 30 watt would require 300 watts.

30 watts is giggable - especially with a PA. My suggestion, if you like the sound that you have, is to get another 30 watt amp. It will only get you that extra 3 dB more or less, but if you go from there to 100 watts, you get less than 3dB more, which again, is barely perceptible. Is it worth the expense for 100 watts? If you are happy with your sound, then probably not.
Click to expand...

While that stuff about watts and volume is true in an abstract sense, in the real world there are more factors that come into play. I can tell you without a doubt that my 50 watt Marshall is one helluva lot louder than my 22 watt Deluxe Reverb. It's not a "barely perceptible" difference.
 
Question to OP. How many speakers in 60 watt cab? What type? Let me tell ya my 22 watt deluxe is plenty giggable. Two deluxes would more than suffice. Get another 30 watt amp run in stereo (psuedo) and totally love the sound My 100 watt marshall sadly stays at home. (Gets lots of use when no neighbors are around) On a side note my Emery Superbay gets most recording chores:)
 
Also if you use a More sencitive speaker it will be a lot louder, If , for example the speaker he is presently useing has a sencitivity of 95db and you switched it to a 101db one the 30w amp would be louder than 100w amp going through a 95db speaker .......


Cheers
 
ReInventor said:
The speakers themselves have no power. That 120watt is what they can handle, not how loud they are. Your 30w amp will probably sound different, and maybe somewhat louder if there are more speakers in that cab, but not double the wattage.

Something else to consider - 60 watts will only sound 3dB louder than 30 watts at its max volume. That's barely perceptible as a difference. To get twice as loud as a 30 watt would require 300 watts.

30 watts is giggable - especially with a PA. My suggestion, if you like the sound that you have, is to get another 30 watt amp. It will only get you that extra 3 dB more or less, but if you go from there to 100 watts, you get less than 3dB more, which again, is barely perceptible. Is it worth the expense for 100 watts? If you are happy with your sound, then probably not.
Click to expand...

Woah thanks for that very technical answer, I knew nothing about the db's of the amp

I also forgot to state that eventually we were going to sell the 30w and buy a 100 or 120w head for the cab. What would be the significant difference then? Also, we're trying to get a lot louder. Because right now with his 30w turned all the way up, it drives a lot giving us distortion we don't really want. We need a much cleaner tone.

ido1957 said:
What kind of gigs are you playing? Or is this for practice only? Are you trying to get louder than the drums? What kind of PA do you have?
Click to expand...

We're just really starting up, but when we do gig it will be just little clubs and basements and stuff, but we do play really loud. We are mostly trying to get louder then the drums (I hit really hard :p).

ggunn said:
While that stuff about watts and volume is true in an abstract sense, in the real world there are more factors that come into play. I can tell you without a doubt that my 50 watt Marshall is one helluva lot louder than my 22 watt Deluxe Reverb. It's not a "barely perceptible" difference.
Click to expand...

:o

Thurgood said:
Question to OP. How many speakers in 60 watt cab? What type? Let me tell ya my 22 watt deluxe is plenty giggable. Two deluxes would more than suffice. Get another 30 watt amp run in stereo (psuedo) and totally love the sound My 100 watt marshall sadly stays at home. (Gets lots of use when no neighbors are around) On a side note my Emery Superbay gets most recording chores:)
Click to expand...

Your drummer must play really low then, because when we jam, we can barely just hear his 30w turned all the way up, and we hear no bass out of my bassists 20w.

Minion said:
Also if you use a More sencitive speaker it will be a lot louder, If , for example the speaker he is presently useing has a sencitivity of 95db and you switched it to a 101db one the 30w amp would be louder than 100w amp going through a 95db speaker .......


Cheers
Click to expand...

Oh man, I'll have to think about that! Thanks!
 
watts ain't always watts ..... what kind of 30 watt amp are you using?
A good 30 watt tube amp is definitely loud enough ...... heard of Vox AC30's?
If what you have is say, some solid state something or other it might not be. one 30 watt amp can be significantly louder than another.

If the bass player has a 20 watt amp, well ...... that's just not enough for bass because the low freqs eat power. Also, a 20 watt bass amp probably has a small speaker which doesn't help.
So what exactly are the amps you're using?
 
Yeah, are we talking about tube watts here or solid-state watts? What kind of amps are you using currently? Like what make/model? And what speakers/cabinets are you using? What kind of music?
 
Lt. Bob said:
watts ain't always watts ..... what kind of 30 watt amp are you using?
A good 30 watt tube amp is definitely loud enough ...... heard of Vox AC30's?
If what you have is say, some solid state something or other it might not be. one 30 watt amp can be significantly louder than another.

If the bass player has a 20 watt amp, well ...... that's just not enough for bass because the low freqs eat power. Also, a 20 watt bass amp probably has a small speaker which doesn't help.
So what exactly are the amps you're using?
Click to expand...

He's using a Vox VT30.
http://www.voxamps.com/valvetronix/vt-series/

Yeah, I figured 20w would definitely not be enough for bass, but he got it for free so we took it. Thats the next thing to buy on the list after my guitarists amp.



Tadpui said:
Yeah, are we talking about tube watts here or solid-state watts? What kind of amps are you using currently? Like what make/model? And what speakers/cabinets are you using? What kind of music?
Click to expand...

The style of music would basically be Tubelord + Castevet + Explosions in the Sky/This Will Destroy You

Sorry if you're not into that stuff! haha
 
You guys might want to re-think this whole amp thing. Try this: 300 watt bass amp with 4x10 spkrs or 2x15. 30 watt gtr amp eg. deluxe reverb or peavey classic 30 (got both and love them). That is closer to teh balance of power so to speak. FWIW Explosions in the sky stuff a Deluxe reverb is perfect. They use them too, that and/or an ac 30. (big fan of the band here). Oh, drummer person don't play so loud :). Speaking of that type of material, I saw Daniel Lanois paly couple of years ago and his stuff is similar in a lot of ways to Explosions, he used ac 30, other gtr player, Fender bassman and bass was a 2x15 rig. All plenty loud.
 
Thurgood said:
You guys might want to re-think this whole amp thing. Try this: 300 watt bass amp with 4x10 spkrs or 2x15. 30 watt gtr amp eg. deluxe reverb or peavey classic 30 (got both and love them). That is closer to teh balance of power so to speak. FWIW Explosions in the sky stuff a Deluxe reverb is perfect. They use them too, that and/or an ac 30. (big fan of the band here). Oh, drummer person don't play so loud :). Speaking of that type of material, I saw Daniel Lanois paly couple of years ago and his stuff is similar in a lot of ways to Explosions, he used ac 30, other gtr player, Fender bassman and bass was a 2x15 rig. All plenty loud.
Click to expand...

See, we're on a budget and the reverb is a grand and the classic is 600 bucks. I'd love to have either amp but we just don't have the money. Same with the bass, just way too expensive :(

What are your guys thoughts on the Fender Frontman 212 100w?

(p.s. I saw Explosions live and they totally blew me away haha.)
 
Hit eBay...you can find all kinds of great deals/amps right now...people are unloading their excess gear due to the economy.

Unload the Valvetronix and get a real tube amp...all tubes, in both the preamp and power section.
You will find a 30W-40W tube amp can be quite loud.
If it's a smaller combo size...add another 112 cab to it and your perceived sound will be much bigger.

You don't need a 100W amp...but hey, it's your back and your ears....you guys are young. :)
 
Options:

1 - don't get a job, buy a shitty amp you'll have to upgrade sooner than later anyway

2 - get a job, buy an amp you'll keep for the rest of your life
 
For what its worth, here are the amps that Explosions In The Sky members use:

Mark plays through a Fender '65 Twin Reverb Reissue.

Michael uses a Peavy T-Max bass head, along with an Ampeg SVT-410AV (4x10 cabinet).

Munaf plugs into a Fender Dual Showman head with a Fender 2x12 cabinet.

And that Fender Frontman is for bedroom guitarists, 100 watts or not. They're designed for entry-level guitarists and I don't think that you'll find anybody around these parts praising them for having good tone.

Best advice is to save up and buy something that you'll really like. You can find older Fender tube amps on Craigs List or eBay for pretty good prices if you're patient and attentive.
 
Classic 30 600 bucks? heck I 've been trying to sell mine for a year at 350. Oopss is that spam? Sorry. Keep your eyes open for some good deals they are out there or should I say here. PM if interested. That was pretty blatant wasn't it. I don't mean to be rude but can you get some sort of job and save up for a decent amp? Chances of finding what you need for a pittance are pretty slim. Good luck.
 
Sorry to repost I failed to read the previous entries about jobs and whatnot. Did not mean to flog or pile on. Sorry. Be well all.
 
Thanks to everyone for so much help! It's very appreciated. This is the most helpful forum I've been on.
 
I don't see how all these 22-30 watt tube amps are going to stay stay clean at a reasonable volume if the end goal is a clean sound. Those amps are marketed at people seeking Bluesy crunch. The Vox AD30 watter isn't a bad amp either, and is actually fairly loud. But if you want more volume with more headroom, and all other things being equal, you need more watts. If that Explosions in the Sky guy is using a Fender Twin, then that explains why he has a clean sound because you won't get that same sound when cranked with a Deluxe Reverb. I love the Deluxe but when you crank it, it breaks up like it is supposed to. A Twin breaks up too but at a much higher volume. Barring circuit design, we are talking about 2 6V6's -VS- 4 6L6's. That is apples and oranges.
 
Don't wanna burst any bubbles....but there are other amps besides Fender, Vox or Peavey. ;)

How much headroom they have and/or how they break up depends on the overall amp design, not just on low wattage VS high wattage.

I have a Dr. Z Rt. 66 that's 32W...but will take your head off and make some 50+ watt amps whimper. :D
It's clean and loud until you almost dime it. If you want crunch at any lower volume, you have to use a pedal or an attenuator.

That's just one example.
 
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