Roguetitan
New member
Psht, screw that!
It cost a lot more to build one than it does to buy one.
I could almost buy 2 Peavey tube heads for what it would cost to build one head of the same wattage output.
Amp Help
- Thread starter MrStitch
- Start date
Psht, screw that!
It cost a lot more to build one than it does to buy one.
I could almost buy 2 Peavey tube heads for what it would cost to build one head of the same wattage output.
SHEPPARDB.
Well-known member
Just get a decent jcm800 and mod as your budget allows.I have a buddy
that has one for sale now with David Bray mods for $900.I know that the mods were around $700 so it is a good deal.If you are interested I can hook you up with him.
SHEPPARDB.
Well-known member
(QUOTE)Combo amps - I'm not sure what to think of those to be honest. I haven't been impressed with combo amps as it seems like a chunk of your money is also going towards the speaker and casing. Does anyone here play live kick-ass hard rock shows with nothing more than a mic'ed 50w combo? With my cruddy amp history, I'm thinking "How the hell would you be heard?!?!?" Anyone got some examples?(End Quote)
I play in two bands and I use a 55 watt combo for both.Never had the need to raise the master vol above three.Between the two bands,I play everything
from G n R, metallica,Hendrix, to Muddy Waters, Clapton, and B.B.King.
Stacks look good on stage, and many of them sound awesome, but in my ex-
perience they are to much for a club, and that is where most of my gigs are.
Besides that they are fricking heavy.
If you plan on getting out and playing, consider the fact that you will need a good P.A. For the genres you are talking about, you need a min of two 18"
subs,and some decent mains(at least two 15 with horns for each side)to
even be on a level with the the bands you will compete with for gigs.
Not trying to discourage you, just pointing out that alot more than guitar comes into consideration when you play live.Point being, if you invest in your
P.A. it will pay off.If my amp were to break down, I could go straight to my board with my effects board.If I had a small 5 watt amp, I can mic it and make it sound huge.
There are many good tube amps out there.Take a drive and try some out.SS
will never satisfy you if you are on a tone quest.
I play in two bands and I use a 55 watt combo for both.Never had the need to raise the master vol above three.Between the two bands,I play everything
from G n R, metallica,Hendrix, to Muddy Waters, Clapton, and B.B.King.
Stacks look good on stage, and many of them sound awesome, but in my ex-
perience they are to much for a club, and that is where most of my gigs are.
Besides that they are fricking heavy.
If you plan on getting out and playing, consider the fact that you will need a good P.A. For the genres you are talking about, you need a min of two 18"
subs,and some decent mains(at least two 15 with horns for each side)to
even be on a level with the the bands you will compete with for gigs.
Not trying to discourage you, just pointing out that alot more than guitar comes into consideration when you play live.Point being, if you invest in your
P.A. it will pay off.If my amp were to break down, I could go straight to my board with my effects board.If I had a small 5 watt amp, I can mic it and make it sound huge.
There are many good tube amps out there.Take a drive and try some out.SS
will never satisfy you if you are on a tone quest.
pikingrin
what is this?
Just my 0.02...
Playing hard rock, IMO, doesn't have to be through a stack... Just two different examples here...
Billy Corgan, love him or hate him, I have seen video footage of him laying down distorted lead tracks through a fender twin. Didn't see any of the pedals he was running through, but it was him sitting on the amp and playing a strat, still getting better sounds than I have heard through Mesas, etc. (While on the Mesa note, someone mentioned the Mark series... BIG +1 for that!!! The newer ones, single, double and triple rec's sound almost "sterile" to my ears.)
Also, while down in Lousiana for Mardi Gras last year, me and a few friends stopped in this bar. There was a typical cover band playing, one guy playing a telecaster through a Bad Cat and another playing a PRS through a fender Deluxe Reverb. They both had Tube Screamers and both setups sounded completely mindblowing. The lead player, playing the Bad Cat, was running through a 1 x 12 cab (the only way I've ever seen it), and it seriously filled the room with some of the sweetest distorted sounds my ears have had the pleasure of listening to. The Deluxe Reverb was nothing to laugh at either. Neither one was mic'd...
All I'm trying to say is that you need to keep your mind open, try out the combos and try out the stacks (if you really think you have to have one). Don't think that just because a particular amp is not a "high gain" amp that you can't easily push it there...
Playing hard rock, IMO, doesn't have to be through a stack... Just two different examples here...
Billy Corgan, love him or hate him, I have seen video footage of him laying down distorted lead tracks through a fender twin. Didn't see any of the pedals he was running through, but it was him sitting on the amp and playing a strat, still getting better sounds than I have heard through Mesas, etc. (While on the Mesa note, someone mentioned the Mark series... BIG +1 for that!!! The newer ones, single, double and triple rec's sound almost "sterile" to my ears.)
Also, while down in Lousiana for Mardi Gras last year, me and a few friends stopped in this bar. There was a typical cover band playing, one guy playing a telecaster through a Bad Cat and another playing a PRS through a fender Deluxe Reverb. They both had Tube Screamers and both setups sounded completely mindblowing. The lead player, playing the Bad Cat, was running through a 1 x 12 cab (the only way I've ever seen it), and it seriously filled the room with some of the sweetest distorted sounds my ears have had the pleasure of listening to. The Deluxe Reverb was nothing to laugh at either. Neither one was mic'd...
All I'm trying to say is that you need to keep your mind open, try out the combos and try out the stacks (if you really think you have to have one). Don't think that just because a particular amp is not a "high gain" amp that you can't easily push it there...
Codmate
New member
I play in a semi-pro outfit (gigging originals about once or twice a week), and I absolutly play every gig with a miced 40W combo (Fender CVR).
We may not be 'hard rock' but we do use some quite heavy guitar sounds at times.
The fact I have a DeuceTone RAT and a TS-9 in my pedal board should tell you something
Anyway, why people think they need huge stacks is beyond me. The more quiet the sound on stage, the better your monitor mix will be and the better the sound will be out front.
Most engineers I know just give up when they see some teenagers arrive with a huge stack thinking "louder is better". They figure since they won't be able to control the sound coming from that rig anyway, why bother at all?!
Those things might be useful in larger venues, when you don't have a PA, or a decent sound engineer; but I don't know why they are so popular among smaller bands (i.e. - not playing stadiums).
The main reason for not going with a combo is to avoid all the extranious noise that combos make. Because everything is in the same box a valve combo will often rattle and shake and hiss and hum like crazy.
So yes - a head and box is a better design - but why do people feel they need over 50W and a giant 4x12"?
My combo sounds just amazing, is highly controlable on stage and I never have problems hearing myself - even though the volume on it rarely creeps up above 3 (the sweet spot for it breaking up when I play hard). That's what those monitors down the front of the stage are for
We're often complemented on our "hi-fi" sound.
I put this down to our taking the live sound as seriously as we do the recorded sound - balancing everything in rehearsals and noting down settings. Adjusting when we get to the venue for the type of stage (less bass for a hollow rostum etc), working with the engineer and generally not just cranking everything to 11 and hoping for the best as that is "rock n' roll".
Nice points about those combo amps guys! I'll have to retrain my brain now, as the first thoughts on seeing a combo amp aren't -
"Wow... that looks pretty awesome!"
It's more like...
"Awwwww... How cute!"
hahhahahahha
Anyways, I'm peeking through the combo amps it seems like the types that I'll need are just as expensive as buying a separate head. In fact Randall has one within my price range and looks pretty darn good, but it's some sort of hot-swappable pre-amp jobby. Their preamps cost over $200 a piece! I could go through a lot of cash before I find something suitable.
All the other combo amps seem to go along the same price point as well. i.e. - Plenty of amps down in that couple hundred bucks range (which makes me think 'not worth it'), then the price sky rockets to $1800 or so. Would someone be able to clue me in on a quality combo amp that isn't $1800 to $2500?
Also, earlier we had touched base with mic'ing an amp with an SM57. I do happen to have access to a PreSonus Blue Tube mic preamp with phantom power. Is there any other mic's out there that come highly recommended? (i've seen some that hang over the top of the amp, but can't remember what kind they were)
"Wow... that looks pretty awesome!"
It's more like...
"Awwwww... How cute!"
hahhahahahha
Anyways, I'm peeking through the combo amps it seems like the types that I'll need are just as expensive as buying a separate head. In fact Randall has one within my price range and looks pretty darn good, but it's some sort of hot-swappable pre-amp jobby. Their preamps cost over $200 a piece! I could go through a lot of cash before I find something suitable.
All the other combo amps seem to go along the same price point as well. i.e. - Plenty of amps down in that couple hundred bucks range (which makes me think 'not worth it'), then the price sky rockets to $1800 or so. Would someone be able to clue me in on a quality combo amp that isn't $1800 to $2500?
Also, earlier we had touched base with mic'ing an amp with an SM57. I do happen to have access to a PreSonus Blue Tube mic preamp with phantom power. Is there any other mic's out there that come highly recommended? (i've seen some that hang over the top of the amp, but can't remember what kind they were)
JPXTom
New member
B-52 also makes a cab with v30's for 600...or one of those avatar cabs for 500 or less, with v30s. I deff. agree with the b-52 call, as ive heard they are similar to mesas. Also check out carvins...if you like the steve vai sound, then you should be all about carvins.
Sinister Blade
New member
There are only 3 Randalls IMO for Metal, X2, MTS with the Dan Donegan Module ( cranked gain and boost toggle ) and the new V2 on the tubed preamp setting. And out of those 3 the X2 is the only one worth buying for Metal IMO ( solid state ).
The Crate Blue Voodoo 120 can be bought on ebay for $350 and is probably the best bang for your buck Metal/tubed amp head wise. Keep the gain around 4 and the presence around 5 and you are in business.
The more versatile amps are Peavey's, Marshall's and Mesa's ( price wise ). These all have a good clean and are multiple channels for setting up different equings and gain levels. The G&R tone is a Marshall JCM 800 and it was an 87/2203 model. Metallica has so much gear that they intertwine that it's really not worth mentioning as we all couldn't afford to put it together. LOL. Nickelback is Mesa Triple Rect live and a few blended tones with the Triple on the albums. Personally, this tone is great but is so played out that I would never put it on my album. It's dominated the last 17 years of Metal recordings ( came out in 89 ) that I would move on ( Krankenstein is a great new Metal tone ).
For those fat leads you need to first use your neck pickup and/or dial in your rig so the mids are nice and fat with the highs being pulled ( especially presence ). A lot of times the term "thin" comes up with lead tone because players are not using a delay or reverb effect on their lead tone, or not enough.
After recording tons of heads ( Metal/Rock ), Peavey is the most versatile/best bang for the buck at around $1000 new.
The Crate Blue Voodoo 120 can be bought on ebay for $350 and is probably the best bang for your buck Metal/tubed amp head wise. Keep the gain around 4 and the presence around 5 and you are in business.
The more versatile amps are Peavey's, Marshall's and Mesa's ( price wise ). These all have a good clean and are multiple channels for setting up different equings and gain levels. The G&R tone is a Marshall JCM 800 and it was an 87/2203 model. Metallica has so much gear that they intertwine that it's really not worth mentioning as we all couldn't afford to put it together. LOL. Nickelback is Mesa Triple Rect live and a few blended tones with the Triple on the albums. Personally, this tone is great but is so played out that I would never put it on my album. It's dominated the last 17 years of Metal recordings ( came out in 89 ) that I would move on ( Krankenstein is a great new Metal tone ).
For those fat leads you need to first use your neck pickup and/or dial in your rig so the mids are nice and fat with the highs being pulled ( especially presence ). A lot of times the term "thin" comes up with lead tone because players are not using a delay or reverb effect on their lead tone, or not enough.
After recording tons of heads ( Metal/Rock ), Peavey is the most versatile/best bang for the buck at around $1000 new.
Whew I'm late on this one...
But, on a recording, what you are hearing is probably a combo... probably. For live use, stacks are nice since they can project a good amount of volume. But, if for example, you are playing at smaller to medium sized venues, then whats the point of a huge stack (even a half stack)? Sure, if you are a lead guitarist, you want to come over the mix a little more than the bass and rhythm guitarist, but you don't want to blow everyone away. And, if you have a decently loud combo amp, if its mic'd, then you just need to tell the guy running the mixing board to turn you up a little more than the other guitarist/bassist.
SHEPPARDB.
Well-known member
I play in a semi-pro outfit (gigging originals about once or twice a week), and I absolutly play every gig with a miced 40W combo (Fender CVR).
We may not be 'hard rock' but we do use some quite heavy guitar sounds at times.
The fact I have a DeuceTone RAT and a TS-9 in my pedal board should tell you something
Anyway, why people think they need huge stacks is beyond me. The more quiet the sound on stage, the better your monitor mix will be and the better the sound will be out front.
Most engineers I know just give up when they see some teenagers arrive with a huge stack thinking "louder is better". They figure since they won't be able to control the sound coming from that rig anyway, why bother at all?!
Those things might be useful in larger venues, when you don't have a PA, or a decent sound engineer; but I don't know why they are so popular among smaller bands (i.e. - not playing stadiums).
The main reason for not going with a combo is to avoid all the extranious noise that combos make. Because everything is in the same box a valve combo will often rattle and shake and hiss and hum like crazy.
So yes - a head and box is a better design - but why do people feel they need over 50W and a giant 4x12"?
My combo sounds just amazing, is highly controlable on stage and I never have problems hearing myself - even though the volume on it rarely creeps up above 3 (the sweet spot for it breaking up when I play hard). That's what those monitors down the front of the stage are for
We're often complemented on our "hi-fi" sound.
I put this down to our taking the live sound as seriously as we do the recorded sound - balancing everything in rehearsals and noting down settings. Adjusting when we get to the venue for the type of stage (less bass for a hollow rostum etc), working with the engineer and generally not just cranking everything to 11 and hoping for the best as that is "rock n' roll".
Hey Cod,I dont know how my name ended up in that quote.Some how my name got attached to something that someone else said.That quote is not mine.I gig with a 55 watt Rivera.
oDD
Problem to your solution
Just a quick comment on the SM57.
Yes its a dynamic mic. I'm not sure where you got the idea that if you have a home studio and can only have one mic that it should be a condenser. The SM57 is probably one of the most versatile mics out there. Definitely great for recording electric guitars.
Condensers are great for many things but for recording a electric guitar cab on a budget - its doesn't get much better than a SM57. Plus the SM57 is great for recording just about everything.
Yes its a dynamic mic. I'm not sure where you got the idea that if you have a home studio and can only have one mic that it should be a condenser. The SM57 is probably one of the most versatile mics out there. Definitely great for recording electric guitars.
Condensers are great for many things but for recording a electric guitar cab on a budget - its doesn't get much better than a SM57. Plus the SM57 is great for recording just about everything.
Tone is mostly in the hands. Want a great metal tone? Work on your picking technique.
As for amps... for what you're talking about, Marshall and Mesa are really your best bets, but they're pretty pricey. On a budget, I'd say your best choice is a used Sovtek MIG-50. Built like a tank and capable of amazing vintage Marshall sounds. Other than that, a modern budget tube amp from Crate or Peavey or somesuch can do you well. I'll disagree with those who say new amps suck. Most new amps sound really awesome! They may not be as reliable or repairable or well-made as the older ones, but tonally, they're pretty decent.
To get a serious hard rock sound, you want TUBES WORKING REALLY HARD. That means turning your amp up ALL THE WAY. Preamp "gain" knobs won't cut it, and solid-state power amps definitely will not cut it. Remember how tube amps are way louder than solid-state amps of the same power rating? Yeah, LOUD. So smaller tube amps are easier to handle.
Anything with two 6L6 or EL34 power tubes should do you nicely. EL84 power tubes will probably sound a bit soft in the bottom for metal, and anything with four power tubes will be too darn loud. And as others have said, most recordings are done with combo amps, not stacks. Even a lot of live shows have "show stacks" out front that aren't even plugged in, while the stage sound is really a little combo backstage with a mic on it. All standing in front of a wall of Marshalls will accomplish is make you a: look cool for a bit, and b: deaf. As a musician, it's just plain dumb to wreck your hearing for the sake of looking cool! A lot of rock guitarists in their 30s and 40s can't hear a thing now...
But seriously... ANY decent amp turned up loud with ANY decent guitar will get you in the ballpark tonally. After that, it's all in your hands. Practice!
As for amps... for what you're talking about, Marshall and Mesa are really your best bets, but they're pretty pricey. On a budget, I'd say your best choice is a used Sovtek MIG-50. Built like a tank and capable of amazing vintage Marshall sounds. Other than that, a modern budget tube amp from Crate or Peavey or somesuch can do you well. I'll disagree with those who say new amps suck. Most new amps sound really awesome! They may not be as reliable or repairable or well-made as the older ones, but tonally, they're pretty decent.
To get a serious hard rock sound, you want TUBES WORKING REALLY HARD. That means turning your amp up ALL THE WAY. Preamp "gain" knobs won't cut it, and solid-state power amps definitely will not cut it. Remember how tube amps are way louder than solid-state amps of the same power rating? Yeah, LOUD. So smaller tube amps are easier to handle.
Anything with two 6L6 or EL34 power tubes should do you nicely. EL84 power tubes will probably sound a bit soft in the bottom for metal, and anything with four power tubes will be too darn loud. And as others have said, most recordings are done with combo amps, not stacks. Even a lot of live shows have "show stacks" out front that aren't even plugged in, while the stage sound is really a little combo backstage with a mic on it. All standing in front of a wall of Marshalls will accomplish is make you a: look cool for a bit, and b: deaf. As a musician, it's just plain dumb to wreck your hearing for the sake of looking cool! A lot of rock guitarists in their 30s and 40s can't hear a thing now...
But seriously... ANY decent amp turned up loud with ANY decent guitar will get you in the ballpark tonally. After that, it's all in your hands. Practice!