Amp Help

M

MrStitch

New member
This might take a while, and everyones input is pretty important, as I live out in the middle of no where, and can't just go down sampling all kinds of cool amps at big stores....

K, currently, I have a 100w solid state marshall, bottom of the barrel, and I'm disgusted with it on just about every level. With everything that I've read, it appears that the dream amp would be a Mesa... but I honestly don't think I'll ever acquire the cash for that sort of set up. However, I know that getting a good amp head is still going to cost me between $1000 and $1500. That price still hurts something fierce, but I think thats what I'm stuck with shooting for.

I'm also a strong supporter of helping out the local shops, and the only shop in town can get either Ibanez or Randall amps. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Ibanez still kinda new in the field, and are still sort of 'learning' yet? Seems like I've heard only so-so reviews on their heads.

Tube power is a must.... I always feel like I'm missing something. Constantly playing with the dials like I'm searching for something that really isn't there. I'm guessing that what I'm missing is actual TONE. I tell ya, I've been disappointed with my amp the very first day I cracked the box open, and it's actually the best amp I've ever owned. How sad is that?!?!?

The distortions that I really like are found in Metallica, Nickelback (don't hate me for that one hahahah), and probably Guns 'n Roses. I'm guessing those are probably my top three favorite sounds. I know G 'n R doesn't fit the picture well, but there's something about it that just sounds bright, light, and crunchy... must be a 'tone' thing again.

Also, someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong on this, but they way I was told (and this guy could've been a total fruit), that true 'tube' powered amps appear or seem MUCH more potent than solid states. Like if you put a 100w tube next to a 100w solid state, the tube would blow it out of the water, in terms of just pure volume. Is this why I hear some of you guys saying you play in a band with only a 50w amp? I swear, if you cut my current amp down to 50 watts, a fricking mouse could fart louder.

And finally, the biggest challenge of them all - The lead sound. I'd definitely would have to say that the best lead sound I've heard (imo) was on some metallica video I purchased. I think it was taped in the late 90's, at fort worth texas. For the life of me, I can't figure out how anyone gets that 'full' 'rich' sound. My leads are dry and thin... like burnt toast. Hammet's, tho not the greatest guitar player, has a sound that's big and full.... yet, not loud and annoying. Know what I mean? Is it just a combination of Mesa + Good Wah + Reverbs + Chorus + Channel delay + _______________ (fill in the blank)??? Seriously, Zack Wylde couldn't make my amp sound good.... ack!!

Now, taking all that information, would anyone like to pitch in on 'bang for the buck'? I'd like to stay in town for shopping, but I'd like to hear about those 'gems' that no one hardly ever talks about... like maybe Orange amps... they any good?

Final thought... hard rock band all the way.... should I seriously consider mic'ing my amp? Line out seems to make it worse.....
 
you made some good points and I am all about Maea however There are a lot of good brands out there. you may want to consider looking at Peavey tube Heads and another good Tube head that is reasonably priced is Carvin Legacy series tube heads. if Carvin Legacy Tube power is good enough for Stevie Vai it is good enough for me; however Carvin is not Sold locally you will have to call to order or order via internet if you decide to go that route.
Now, I am all for supporting the local retailers also however if they are not trying to compete for my business with compedetive prices that line up with other retailers on the websites I will take my business elsewhere. I dont mind helping out the local economy but I am not going to let some one shove one in my ass and break it off either for the sake of keeping the currency in the comunity.
The dude is correct a 100 watt tube amp will definately blow a 100 watt SS amp out of the water.

Imo if you like Metalicas' sound buy what they use, if you like The late great Dimebag Darell sound buy a Krank.
if that is the type of sound you are shooting for get what they use.
pretty simple.

and Oh yes Orange is Teh Shit! I put Orange right up there with Mesa.
 
Ebay...its a great tool. Ive seen mesa tremoverb's(dual recs with reverb and tremelo)2x12 combos for 800/900. And most ebayers ship anywhere in the US, if thats where you live. If its mesa tone you want, you know what you have to do man..
 
Sounds like a road trip is in order. Do you really want to plunk down big$$$ for an amp that you MIGHT like? Even the same make/model can sound vastly different. You gotta get somewhere that has a good inventory and try some different things out. I would never buy an amp without plugging in first. I think I would consider buying a guitar online, as it could at least be set-up and adjusted. But an amp has a sonic character all it's own. To an extent, no amount of tweaking or tube swapping is going to change that. Also if you're going to use the amp with a cab that you already have, better take that along because it will make a big difference too.
I know this is probably not the answer you are looking for, but nobody can tell YOU what amp YOU will like for the sound YOU want.
 
MrStitch said:
K, currently, I have a 100w solid state marshall, bottom of the barrel, and I'm disgusted with it on just about every level. With everything that I've read, it appears that the dream amp would be a Mesa... but I honestly don't think I'll ever acquire the cash for that sort of set up. However, I know that getting a good amp head is still going to cost me between $1000 and $1500. That price still hurts something fierce, but I think thats what I'm stuck with shooting for.

Tube power is a must.... I always feel like I'm missing something. Constantly playing with the dials like I'm searching for something that really isn't there.

The distortions that I really like are found in Metallica, Nickelback and probably Guns 'n Roses. I'm guessing those are probably my top three favorite sounds. I know G 'n R doesn't fit the picture well, but there's something about it that just sounds bright, light, and crunchy... must be a 'tone' thing again.

My leads are dry and thin... like burnt toast. Hammet's, tho not the greatest guitar player, has a sound that's big and full.... Seriously, Zack Wylde couldn't make my amp sound good.... ack!!

Now, taking all that information, would anyone like to pitch in on 'bang for the buck'? I'd like to stay in town for shopping, but I'd like to hear about those 'gems' that no one hardly ever talks about... like maybe Orange amps... they any good?

Final thought... hard rock band all the way.... should I seriously consider mic'ing my amp? Line out seems to make it worse.....
Click to expand...

Good post, you mentioned your price range, the sound your shooting for and your open for suggestions.

Suggestion here...
I recently bought a used tube amp and changed tubes within 6 months.. so add that cost, and a bias setup, if buying used.

a word of "fresh shopping" ...
let the thing heat up for hours.....and I say this seriously. Let it reach full "heat" even in Idle and cranking it up mode. In other words really test it out to its fullest, no 15 minute Guitar Center crack monkey jam and a "WOW!!I'LL BUY IT!!!!!" scenario..
Electronics can get noisier as the heat builds, and tube amps can get super hot!

Of course I took my new/used Tube amp home and tested it hard, with a short time to return it. Left it on played it loud, quiet etc...and it still went out several weeks later ready for tube change out. Maybe $70- 200 bucks is no big deal, then its a non-issue.

Analyzing Your post;)....
A Mesa Amp combo sounds like it would work? Your going to mic it, so combo may work. Buy a Shure SM57? You know the sounds you like have you donme any homework on what pups and speakers and amps they were using to get this tone your after?

my bullshit input......:rolleyes:
I'm not a tube perfectionist at all, or even a really good guitar player...but when I side by sided 2 solid states to my new/used Tube amp it really is obvious the tone's missing from the solid state.
I think its just pure physics in the way the Tube operates and a chip operates/simulates....call it a natural compression I hear with the tube.

However, if I was still playing gigs, it might have to be a solid state just for pure maintenance reasons, give up some tone get some road reliability with SS.

I've heard some MG-SS Marshall tones and they sounded better than some others? In the store at low volumes a lot of these solid states sound good...does the MG fall apart at higher volumes? I sure read a lot of bad press on the MG series.....yet the MG's look so damn cool and are cheap?:confused:
 
Great input guys, and I'll try to fire back the best I can -

The reason for staying in town - For one, some of these manufacturers only allow X amount of dealers/service-stores within a certain region/population. Marshall is one of 'em. Case in point - I purchased my current Marshall from Musicians Friend. I ran into some problems once, while it was still under warranty. So I took it down to the local shop, and they had to make a request to Marshall to be a full service center. They said that Marshall turned them down because there was one already within the local 'region'..... which was 50 miles away. Sooooo.. I had a choice - Drive the 100 mile round trip to drop it off, wait a couple weeks till it was done, and drive the 100 mile round trip to pick it up, PRAYING that it was fixed properly cause I don't wanna make the damn trip again... OR, I could ship it off to Musicians Friend and wait god-only-knows how long before I see it again, also praying that it was fixed right the first time.

This is why I'd prefer to stay in town. I can just drop it off on my lunch hour, and pick it up on a lunch hour. If there's anything that isn't done right.... it's really not a big hassle. Amps can be touchy some times, and if they ain't working, then I'm dead in the water. Fast service with someone that I can talk to face to face is important to me..... ESPECIALLY if I'm willing to drop more than a grand for a piece of equipment. By the way, I DO believe what my local shop told me, cause I know for a fact that some companies opperate this way.... Stihl (a chainsaw manufacturer) is one of them.

Testing amps out - You're absolutely right. I need to break down and make a road trip. K, the nearest town with a fair-sized store is 50 miles, and thats a guitar center. I'm really not sure how I'm going to do this 'warm it up for hours' kind of thing, as they may get pretty pissy at me making noise for hours on end. hahahah. But they should have at least most of what I'm looking for. In that same town, I 'think' there is a store that happens to have some Mesa's. I'll have to ask our local shop tho if they can get hooked up with Mesa or not. Finally, I'm hoping that someone has some peavy's, cause I've had my eye on them for quite some time now. The product looks interesting, but I just never hear a whole lot about 'em. The only thing I ever hear (and probably most people here too), is that the 5150 kicks total butt. Again, I've never heard it.

Thanks for verifying those differences between SS and tube. I feel like a moron talking about something that I've never heard, but all I can go on is "My current amp is SS, and it sucks" and also "That digital line 6 and voodoo amps stuff..... sucks" (i've actually played on those tho... EXTREMELY UNIMPRESSED)

Someone mentioned that Mic'ing is important, and another mentioned something about the quality of sound versus volume - Yes, my amp actually doesn't seem to sound too bad when the volume level is at maybe... 1 or 3, but after that the degradation of sound gets kinda bad. In order to hear myself over the drums, I have to be about 2/3 volume, and the sound is terrible... border line "extremely fucking annoying". I just happen to have a presonus blue tube, that I could use (how about some thoughts on that piece of equipment??). Now the SM 57 is a dynamic mic isn't it? Would it be better to get a condensor mic, since I would like to do some home recording some day? I'm not dissing the 57, but would like to hear some other potential goodies that can be versitile, studio and live show. I tried home recording before, but had problems trying to get anything to 0 db without all kinds of back ground noise.... but thats an issue for another day. Another reason I mentioned using a condesor mic is the fact that the blue tube has phantom power (or whatever you call it). Something that could be taken advantage of?

Combo amps - I'm not sure what to think of those to be honest. I haven't been impressed with combo amps as it seems like a chunk of your money is also going towards the speaker and casing. Does anyone here play live kick-ass hard rock shows with nothing more than a mic'ed 50w combo? With my cruddy amp history, I'm thinking "How the hell would you be heard?!?!?" Anyone got some examples?

Ebay - Not a chance. For one, I'm not settling for anything used because when I drop the money, it could litterally be a decade before I'm able to purchase again. Combine that with the fact that I've been burned on Ebay before.... yeah.... not going down that road.

Orange amps - Nice to see someone say something good. The only reason I brought them up specifically, is because I've become a big Clutch fan. I think that album Blast Tyrant is one of the best I've heard in over ten years. (If you don't have it, BUY IT!). Anyways, I read in there that the guitarist uses Orange. Never heard of Orange before that. However, the guitar sound on the album doesn't sound anything remotely like Metallica, Nickleback, GnR, or Megadeth.... it's just so damn cool tho. Simple, yet effective. I was wondering tho, can an Orange amp get anywhere near the Met. sound... and by that I mean, does Clutch sound that way based on the chosen amp, or the chosen 'settings' on the amp by the guitarist?

The cab - Very good point about bringing my cab along. Almost forgot - My current cab has four Celestian 10's, and a slant face. And although the name Celestian is pretty good, the manufacturer name plate on the front is Crate....... Gee, I can almost hear everyone going "OMFG... You're screwed!!". hahahahha. VERY bad experiences with Crate products, and even though the speakers are not there, I've worked in the manufacturing business for 10+ years, and if there's one thing that I've learned is... name don't mean anything. Crate could easily 'request' cheaper speakers from Celestian, and then use the Celestian name to boost the quality-appearance factor of the product. Know what I mean? Thus, I've considered swapping out the speakers as well, however I don't think that move will have NEARLY the dramatic effect as getting a whole new tube head. Thoughts on speaker cab construction? Speakers in general?
 
If your wanting the "hard rock Metallica" sound like on and after Black Album, your looking into Mesa stuff. Earlier "metal Metallica" sounds I believe were tube Marshalls. The GnR sound is also marshalls too.
Nickelback also prefers Mesas.

Look into the single/double/or triple recitfier amps. A lot of people prefer the single and double to the triple for recording, but i'm sure any would work well.

Modern metal still seems to rely heavily on the Peavey 5150, 5150II, 6505, and 6505+. These are all almost the same amps. This also includes the Peavey XXX and JSX. You can get a used 5150 type head for $500-600. The XXX and JSX will cost you a little more with JSX being most expensive.

There are other amps, like Diezel, Bogner, Framus, and stuff like that, but it's too damn expensive, so forget about it.

Laney as far as I know is kind of like a hot-rodded marshall sound. mids + high-mids.

Orange I would say would lean more towards a vintage type sound. You can get some heavy stuff out of them, but it's a different sound than the Mesa stuff.

Dude for super cheap, look into a Crate Blue Voodoo. It can do some high gain stuff. Not the best but cheap. fuck some crate-haters.

Also, on the cheaper side, look into B-52 amps, i've heard good things about them, but haven't actually tried them myself.


Cabinet - 4x12 with Celestion Vintage 30's.
Mesa oversized cabs are highly recommended as well as the Orange 4x12.
 
I don't play the same style music as you do (more southern rock and blues for me) I just wanted to make a comment about amps. I use a Fender Twin (The Twin) all tube with a power output switch, 50 or 100 watt. I mostly keep it set to 50 watts because the 100 watt setting is just too damn loud! At the risk of sounding like I'm bragging, this thing will blow away and 100 watt ss Marshall. Enough about that! If you decide to go with Pee Vee by all means go for tube, their ss amps sound dry and flat (like most ss amps.) You have a good idea of the sound you want, that's a good start. Just do as others have suggested, let any tube amp heat up for a while before you judge it's sound. The volume will be there pretty fast but the tone takes a while. Happy amp hunting.
 
marshall ?

what guitar are you using ?? what cab ?? ...... i have never met a marshall i could not get great tone out of ........ even a 15w mg had decent tone for what it was
 
Thanks for the link drop on that Carvin. It certainly does look promising. But don't they sell the product factory direct ONLY? Might have to look into that deeper.....

The guitar I have is an old Ibanez Radius. Can't remember any specifics about the hardware, but thats something I'd like to replace in the future too. However, I'm not too worried about it at this point, as the guitar is pretty damn nice.

The cab - Mentioned that earlier. It's Crate 4x10 (possibly 12's... can't remember) with Celestian speakers.... since 'crate' is on the face plate, then I'm assuming that the Celestians are kinda cruddy.

Back to heads -

I was considering this head here - Peavy XXX

Or possibly this one here - Randall Amp

The Randall amp might be a bad choice tho, as it sounds like it's some sort of hybrid jobby, and I think we all agreed here that I need to remove myself from the SS world completely. Maybe someone could make a better suggestion for a Randall.

I could possibly go for this one too - Ibanez Amp However, I haven't heard anyone say whether or not Ibanez makes a decent amp. Could use some feedback on that.
 
Almost forgot about Fender... hahahah

Fender doesn't really make anything in my style, but they DO make a good amp. I remember this one show where my Marshall took a dump on me (not the first time either), and all I had at home was a little fender ss practice amp.

I ran home quick, brought the thing back, tossed a mic in front, and later on I got compliments on how well the lead sounded..... and I'm a crappy lead player. hahahah

Can't remember what happened to that thing......
 
An old Mesa Mark series. 80's era Hiwatt, Sunn Model T, Marshall, Risson, ect.

Most new amps are useless. Don't waste $1500-$2000 on garbage. If you're buying brand new, spend the extra few bucks and get something custom made.
 
Don't be afraid of combos, you just gotta find the right one. A mic'd combo can sound just as good as a mic'd 4 x 12. I'm considering pitching my cabinet and getting a combo, mostly out of ease of moving and taking into account the size of venues we play in...
 
Most new amps are garbage? Care to elaborate a little more on that?

jndietz: A mic'd combo can sound just as good....... So, are we saying that if you happen to get lucky and find the right one, that it'll sound pretty darn close to a stack? OR, are you saying that most combo's (quality name brands anyways) DO sound just as good as a stack, as long as they are mic'd?
 
If you are handy with a soldering iron, you should try to build your own,.. plenty of places to get schematics, parts, and helpful advice from those who have done it already.
 
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