Zona Mona
New member
Which of these is better for live performances and recording?
Farview
Well-known member
It really depends on the genre of music and what amp you are talking about.
Zona Mona
New member
Sorry I wasn't more clear. I am talking about general rock to Phish style jam-band music. Amp would be anything from silod-state and tube Fenders to solid-state Marshalls. Whatever really, if there is an amp that gets really great distortion by itself, let me hear about it. It was really just a general question to stimulate an open discussion on the subject.
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Farview
Well-known member
Marshall jcm2000 tsl: great rock amp old jcm800 great amp but needs a tube screamer to push it over.
Mesa Boogie: good distortion
bogner: great distortion
Crate: Please
My rule of thumb (and there are exceptions) If it's a tube amp, use the amp distortion. If it's solid state use a box of some sort.
Mesa Boogie: good distortion
bogner: great distortion
Crate: Please
My rule of thumb (and there are exceptions) If it's a tube amp, use the amp distortion. If it's solid state use a box of some sort.
Zona Mona
New member
Thanks for the tip. The reason I asked is that I am looking for an amp. I am playing on a friends amp, it doesn't even have a brand name on the amp. I think he said it was a Kustom, but if so a really low end one.
B
boingoman
New member
Zona Mona said:
There really isn't any high-end Kustom amp.
Zona Mona
New member
Point taken, obviously this is not a very good amp. I have been playing for about a year now (really applying myself anyway, I've had the guitar for about five years) and am looking to get something that is half decent, but I'm on a high-school student budget. I was looking at the Marshall MG50DFX, any comments on that?
apl
Stand Up Comity
Hey, Zona.
I use a Digitech RP50, both direct for recording (see the song in my signature line), and live, direct into a PA. It totally goes against my purist grain, but it works really well. I can set up three or four patches, and I don't have to worry about getting the same sound every time. Plus, it's got a cool tuner.
And since it's only $60, it'll fit your high school budget.
I use a Digitech RP50, both direct for recording (see the song in my signature line), and live, direct into a PA. It totally goes against my purist grain, but it works really well. I can set up three or four patches, and I don't have to worry about getting the same sound every time. Plus, it's got a cool tuner.
And since it's only $60, it'll fit your high school budget.
X
xfinsterx
New member
I think pedals are cool if theyre used with a tube amp.
it seems to me that pedals just sit on top of the sound.
as opposed to being part of it like with a tube amp.
it seems to me that pedals just sit on top of the sound.
as opposed to being part of it like with a tube amp.
Scottgman
Legend in Own Mind
In my opinion, the best distortion is from a killer tube amp. But killer tube amps aren't cheap. However, you can get a usable sound out of a cheapo amp and a nice distortion pedal.
If you are on a small budget, your best option will probably be a solid state or hybrid amp with a nice distortion pedal. Even if you can find a tube amp on your limited budget, it probably wouldn't be a "good" tube amp and therefore you are back to the problem of getting good distortion out of the thing.
If I were you, I'd figure up exactly how much money you had to spend, then go to Guitar Center or some other music store and try out everything that is in your price range (remember that you can haggle with the guys at GC, so don't go strictly by the sticker price).
If you are on a small budget, your best option will probably be a solid state or hybrid amp with a nice distortion pedal. Even if you can find a tube amp on your limited budget, it probably wouldn't be a "good" tube amp and therefore you are back to the problem of getting good distortion out of the thing.
If I were you, I'd figure up exactly how much money you had to spend, then go to Guitar Center or some other music store and try out everything that is in your price range (remember that you can haggle with the guys at GC, so don't go strictly by the sticker price).
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
I would stay from the Marshall solid state amps. You can get a good classic rock tone out of a Fender Blues Jr. Add a Tube Screamer pedal and you can get some great saturation.
Farview
Well-known member
line 6 makes a pretty good combo that is cheap(ish) It has the basic different distortions that you would need.
I
Imaduck
New member
Well, usually if you're on a budget, you probably still want a good bit of versatility instead of buying one amp and getting one tone forever and ever (not to say you can't get more than one tone out of a amp, just that there are limits). With that said, it's nice to have a pedal that will do lots of things, and then an amp for a bit o' tone control and of course the power. I don't like the RP50 because it's still pretty limited, I'd say go with the RP200 or higher. Personally, I use an RP200 with a Crate GLX212 and then an external 4x12 cab. It rocks louder than you'll ever need and is really easy to set up while giving me a great range of tonal and effects choices, and it's relatively cheap. I like it.
Anyway, I've also heard great things about the Line 6 stuff, and even though I'm not a huge fan of it, they do have lots of versatile stuff for cheap prices.
But that's just my opinion.
Anyway, I've also heard great things about the Line 6 stuff, and even though I'm not a huge fan of it, they do have lots of versatile stuff for cheap prices.
But that's just my opinion.
bongolation
New member
Which type of tube amp distortion?
Preamp or power stage?
These are completely different, and I'd bet that 3/4 (or more) of tube amp owners never have their amps cranked high enough to ever hear what they sound like in power stage saturation.
Preamp or power stage?
These are completely different, and I'd bet that 3/4 (or more) of tube amp owners never have their amps cranked high enough to ever hear what they sound like in power stage saturation.
systmovadown
New member
for recording i use the amps
but for live-
when i solo, i stomp on an MXR distortion plus to give it a little more (with wireless, my amp lost alot of feedback but the mxr gave it tons)
I also have a crybaby wah
i have a pretty basic setup
but for live-
when i solo, i stomp on an MXR distortion plus to give it a little more (with wireless, my amp lost alot of feedback but the mxr gave it tons)
I also have a crybaby wah
i have a pretty basic setup
Zona Mona
New member
bongolation said:
What is the difference between these? Could someone please explain???
And about the Blues Jr., Could anyone who owns it give me a little description as to it's capabilities. That'd be great. Thanks!
Farview
Well-known member
Zona Mona said:
I
Imaduck
New member
Preamp vs. Power Amp Distortion
Alright, I'll try to make this as simple as possible.
Distortion is caused by "clipping," meaning when an audio signal gets too loud for *something* to handle, the sine wave that is usually rounded hits the top and flattens out. Our ears pick this up as what we know as "distortion."
Generally there are 3 places we're concerned with where distortion can occur, and it all depends on where we're making the signal too loud (overdriving). The first place it can happen is the preamp. This means that either your signal is too strong going into your amp, or you have the preamp volume or gain overdriving the signal. This is the most common type of intentional distortion, and usually gives you more shrill, defined, rock distortion (unless you're overdriving the input, which usually gives you some nasty fuzz or chunky distortion).
The second place is the power amp. If you get distortion here, it means you're pushing your amplifier stage past the point where it can create clean sound. A lotta people wonder why a 50 watt tube amp will get louder than a 100 watt solid state. The main reason for this is that tubes can be pushed far more than what they are rated at, where-as solid state amps have a very solid ceiling. However, when you start pushing amps over their rated level, you get clipping, and this creates another type of distortion. This type of distortion creates a sound kind of in between your more shrill distortion and crunch, and usually comes into play in combination with preamp distortion.
The final type of common distortion is speaker distortion. This occurs when your amp is rated close to or more than your speakers (quality speakers are usually rated in watts and that rating is supposed to represent the amount of power they can take without creating audible distortion, however many companies do a lot of numbers fudging with this and distorition can be achieved at much lower levels than rated). This is where you get your crunch distortion. Generally, you do not want this distortion, as it will wear out and could blow your speakers.
Anyway, these are very generalized definitions. Modern amps mimic and create distortion in many, many different ways, and pedals also try to recreate the many different types of distortion. Usually though, people focus mainly on their preamp distortion. Speaker and amplifier distortion come into play when you go to play live and are forced to turn up your amps. It is very important that you make sure your rig is going to sound good at high levels BEFORE you go on stage, because a setup that sounds great at practice can sound like absolute poo when you're cranking it 3x as loud live.
Alright, I'll try to make this as simple as possible.
Distortion is caused by "clipping," meaning when an audio signal gets too loud for *something* to handle, the sine wave that is usually rounded hits the top and flattens out. Our ears pick this up as what we know as "distortion."
Generally there are 3 places we're concerned with where distortion can occur, and it all depends on where we're making the signal too loud (overdriving). The first place it can happen is the preamp. This means that either your signal is too strong going into your amp, or you have the preamp volume or gain overdriving the signal. This is the most common type of intentional distortion, and usually gives you more shrill, defined, rock distortion (unless you're overdriving the input, which usually gives you some nasty fuzz or chunky distortion).
The second place is the power amp. If you get distortion here, it means you're pushing your amplifier stage past the point where it can create clean sound. A lotta people wonder why a 50 watt tube amp will get louder than a 100 watt solid state. The main reason for this is that tubes can be pushed far more than what they are rated at, where-as solid state amps have a very solid ceiling. However, when you start pushing amps over their rated level, you get clipping, and this creates another type of distortion. This type of distortion creates a sound kind of in between your more shrill distortion and crunch, and usually comes into play in combination with preamp distortion.
The final type of common distortion is speaker distortion. This occurs when your amp is rated close to or more than your speakers (quality speakers are usually rated in watts and that rating is supposed to represent the amount of power they can take without creating audible distortion, however many companies do a lot of numbers fudging with this and distorition can be achieved at much lower levels than rated). This is where you get your crunch distortion. Generally, you do not want this distortion, as it will wear out and could blow your speakers.
Anyway, these are very generalized definitions. Modern amps mimic and create distortion in many, many different ways, and pedals also try to recreate the many different types of distortion. Usually though, people focus mainly on their preamp distortion. Speaker and amplifier distortion come into play when you go to play live and are forced to turn up your amps. It is very important that you make sure your rig is going to sound good at high levels BEFORE you go on stage, because a setup that sounds great at practice can sound like absolute poo when you're cranking it 3x as loud live.
Farview
Well-known member
Imaduck said:
Celestion has built an entire industry on speakers that distort on purpous. If you are chuncking on a low chord and hear the cabinet breathing, that is speaker distortion. I have a cabinet with 25 watt celestions from 1969 and they are not blown (I've had it for 20 years and have been beating it up with all kinds of amps)
Power amp distortion is what tends to smooth the sound out, this is why a lot of blues players like 25 and 30 watt amps, so they can get the power section to distort without having to be too loud.
If preamp distortion were the holy grail in itself, all these dopey preamps with a 12ax7 in them could be plugged into a solid state power amp then into a stereo speaker and sound like a guitar. (they don't, and don't try it, you might blow your tweeters)
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