Advice required what should I buy?

[cybergiz]

This is my first post. I would appreciate some help. I want to start home recording virtually from scratch. What equipment should I buy to get me started? I want to go for quality and equipment that I will not grow out of too quickly. I play guitar and have good instruments. Eventually I expect to be wanting to record drums. I am not a technical wizzkid ie my ability with computers is limited, but I can write songs and play. Any advice would be appreciated. THANKS.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

I was recently in the same situation.

You have three options (broadly speaking).

Traditional multitrack recorder- this involves seperate mixer/preamps and outboard gear. Probably the most expensive route but there is a huge variation in price of all the various bits and bobs you'll need so you could get started fairly cheap. This way you'll learn to record in a more hands on way which may or may not be good for you.

Computer- these days you can do everything through a computer as long as you have the right software and interface (sound card). I don't know much about this as it's not how I like to do things but it's relatively inexpensive compared to higher end traditional recording equipment (especially if you already have a PC or Mac with a reasonable spec). Also there are lots of possibilities for expansion and editing your music is really easy on a PC.

All in one recorder- also called a studio in a box (or siab). These vary quite a bit in what they can do (and in price) but starting out this is the route I chose for convenience and cost reasons. As the name suggests you can do pretty much everything on these but within limitations. Record, mix, add effects and in some cases master and burn to CD.

You should look around the site and elsewhere and decide what set up would suit you most. When you've aquired a bit more knowledge you could maybe come back and ask more specific questions. You'll find that the more knowledgable and experienced folks here will more likely respond when the questions are more specific.

Hope this helps a bit

 

[cybergiz]

Thanks Kevin,
I'm don't want to go down the computer route either. I probably will go for the 'all in one' recorder, but don't know which yet. Also I've been told that a dvd rewriter is the way to go. Any knowledge about this? What are the advantages of DVD over CD in sound recording? Which recorder did you go for in the end? I'm going to put a sepatate post on miking up my acoustic guitars.
Lee

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

I don't even know of any recorders that have DVD-RW in them and I've not really heard of this format being used for sound recording. Maybe that's worth a seperate post. I think you're better off with CD though.

I'm the proud owner of a zoom 1266

SOS review:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Feb....asp?session=a03c5b16468aaa26a187b8afa08cb68c

I picked one up for £400 on ebay without the CD burner. I then bought a £30 lite-on CD-RW and fitted it and it works! The sepearte zoom burner retails at about £200!

It's good for learning because it's all right there under your nose. You don't have the nightmare of having to hook everything up correctly and having different bits of kit lying around everywhere. The sound quality is very good largely because there's so little distance for the signal to travel.

There are loads of effects (especially amp models and guitar stuff) but I do use a seprate compressor and reverb unit as the zoom's aren't great. Useable though don't get me wrong.

You might want to look around the Sound on sound website as there are loads of articles for things like micing acoustic guitar. Also I'd reccommend using the search facility on this BBS before posting. Most of the folks on here are really helpful and the depth of knowledge is incredible but posts about basic stuff don't usually get much of a response because people know that the answers are already here somewhere.

Cheers

 

[Rolf G Riley]

Hi guys!
I'm a guitarist songwriter as well and I had the same dilema a couple of years ago. I am computer illiterate and I dont trust them as far as i could throw them when it comes to recording. I guess others will have a different view but thats mine! Having said that after 2 years at this i now need to collaborate with drummers over the web and thats a lot easier with a PC software set up I hear. Dont be put off PC software because of my incompetence with computers though, you can get some great deals and if you trust the dam machines then you'll be ok!

Hear is a short list of my gear, it may help:

Roland VS 1880 workstation
Line 6 POD
Joe Meek JM47 mic
Joe meek VC3 pre amp
Samson sevo 170 amp
Spirit absolute 2 monitors
Plextor CD writer
Boss DR 770 Drum machine
Audio tech phones.

Thats it.
I started on the Roland VS 840 and moved up to the VS 1880. You can get an 840 or 880 pretty cheap too, they are great starter all in one studios, 8 tracks, 64 virtual tracks, on board FX, Midi, on board Zip drive, non destructive editing, EZ routing etc.. One word of advice ...make sure if you get a starter recorder that it can be syncd along with another later on when you expand etc.. the vs840 cannot do this, the vs 880 can. Had I had the vs 880 I could have bought another to run alongside it and saved some money!
One other word of warning..whichever way you go you are in for many long nights reading the dreaded Manuals! Good luck.

Check out a couple of the free previews of my demos on my home page to give you an idea of what the above gear is capable of of (in my hands anyway, I've heard others make it sound a lot better!).

Hope that helps a little.
Rolf.

 

[dwillis45]

I want to go for quality and equipment that I will not grow out of too quickly.

If you are serious about long-term expandibility (and you don't want a computer), I would suggest a stand-alone hard disk recorder rather than a SIAB (studio in a box). They start at about $1,200 new (Fostex D2424, Mackie SDR 2496) and move quickly to the 2K range (Alesis HD24). You will also need to buy a mixer which will add to your budget.

 

[cybergiz]

Thanks everyone I'm working through all the information you have given me, it's really helpful.

By the way I see a couple of you are in the UK. Can you recommend any honest, reliable retailers of this sort of equipment. I know plenty about guitars but very little about recording equipment so I need to be sure I'm getting good advice. Thanks.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

No probs,

I have to say that I would echo dwillis45's post because this is the kind of setup I'm now considering (although expect to pay a bit more in the UK).

It just depends if you want to spend a few hundred quid "dipping your toe in" and then selling on at a later stage with a view to upgrading or biting the bullet and spending a lot of money up front.

All the best anyway

Nick

 

[cybergiz]

Nick,
in response to your earlier post the Roland VS2480DVD is a 24 track workstation with 16 track simultaneous recording and it features a DVD drive. It is expensive however-well over $4000(USD). Haven't seen a UK price yet.
I do not yet understand the advantages of DVD as I am a novice to recording.
I've been looking at the Yamaha AW16G workstation which may be where I start. But I will continue to consider my options and listen to the advice of others on the forum too.

 

[Rolf G Riley]

Ok here is my view... If you are sure you will stick at this recording lark then I suggest you research well and get the best gear you can afford. I say this because the resale value of equipment often doesn't hold up well as technology advances. I statrted with a Roland VS840 at he time I thought the learning curve alone would mean I'd be using it for years. In the event I got to grips with it pretty quick and wanted to move up to the VS 1880. which i did but it cost me a shed load of ££££££££££££££.
Had I bought the VS 1880 to start with i would have been better off. You may argue that technology moves at such a rapid pace that you will always be upgrading. Probably true but as a beginner you need to be getting really comfortable with the gear and not just spending out more and more, reading more and more manuals so you can record less and less.

Trust worthy dealers...Hmmmmm..difficult that one!
Do yourself a favour and read up on product reviews (Sound on sound for example) but dont buy on the back of a good review alone (most reviews are good because they need to keep advertizers happy)..go to a dealer with a very clear view on what you want to achieve within your buget (write it down in case you forget something as they blind you with science). Get them to spend time with you, many will book an appointment with you so you can get more benefit than just walking in off the street.
Golden Rule is IF YOU FEEL YOU ARE BEING RIPPED OFF THEN YOU PROBABLY ARE! But remember that a good dealer can help you to and it may be worth paying a little bit more if you trust them rather than buying from a mail order sales outfit with no interest in you other than the size of your wallet.

Remember all dealers will push whatever they have on offer that week so be patiant and get it right. Important tip number 2...

CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THE MANUAL? thismay sound minor but trust me its a pig if you cant!

Help and support lines are useful to so ask about them.

tip no 3...

ASK LOTS OF STUPID QUESTIONS... if you dont ask you wont find out.

Tip no. 4...
Dont be afraid to haggle you can often strike a better deal.
I dont use just one dealer. Each seems to me good at some things at bad at others. You may be luckier.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

I'm no font of knowledge myself but It looks like DVD is a good option for archiving large amounts of data. However if you mainly want to produce the odd demo and bung a few CD's out to mates then I would say DVD-R is impractical at the moment.

A CD-R can store a minimum of 74 min. (more than adequate for your average demo) and everyone has a CD player (even my nan). Most of those with DVD players don't have them hooked up to their audio setup and CD-Rs are also a heck of a lot cheaper than DVD-Rs.
I honestly don't think that DVD is the way forward as a storage/playback medium for audio; at least in the near future. Like I said before this might be worth a seperate thread.

Rolf makes some good points but the bottom line is you're not really going to know what's 'right' for you until you've bought something and road tested it for a good long while, learned more about the recording process and fathomed which method of doing things is to your liking. There's always going to be an element of risk buying kit for something which you know you want to do but don't yet know much about.
Yes, I'll lose a couple of hundred quid when I sell my Zoom on but the way I see it, that outlay will have been worth it for the things I've learned in the meantime, and the ability it's given me to make decisions on how I want to record in the future.

The yamaha looks good.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

just ran into this link on another thread

http://forum.aw16g.com/

 

[cybergiz]

That's all good information. Thank you. OK here's where I'm at at present:
I'm leaning towards the Yamaha AW16G at present. I've found a local shop that will get me one for £755. Thats £20 more than the best interenet price but I'll haggle if I go in to the shop to place a firm order.
The Boss BR-1600 looks good and has a 40 Gb hard drive (the Yamaha is 20 Gb). This has some nice vocal tools as far as I can see, and the screen display looks quite clear. The best price I have found so far is £999.
Then there's the Korg D1600 which looks pretty good but is more expensive at £1399, has a 20 Gb hard disc.
Unless anybody can give me some good reasons otherwise I am thinking that I could buy the Yamaha plus a really good microphone and some other bits and pieces and still have change from the Korg.
I'm still open to advice/other suggestions. And I really appreciate the replies I've had already to my original post so far. Please keep 'em coming!

 

[Rolf G Riley]

At the end of the day everything comes down to cash. You could go spend it all on the more expensive units but if you haven't got any money for a mic how will you record anything. You gotta start somewhere so I cant see much wrong with your thinking. A really good mic will always be worth having. I think the front end is crucial when recording so it makes sense to get the mic.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

At the end of the day everything comes down to cash. You could go spend it all on the more expensive units but if you haven't got any money for a mic how will you record anything. You gotta start somewhere so I cant see much wrong with your thinking. A really good mic will always be worth having. I think the front end is crucial when recording so it makes sense to get the mic.

I'll second that.

Mic's are something which are a lot more practical to road test in store as well so make sure you try loads of 'em. Also have more faith in your ears than in what the salesman says.

 

[dwillis45]

One quick piece of advice FWIW: If you can, download the Yamaha SIAB manual and read it before you buy. It's a pain but it will make your initial recording experience much less aggravating. Also check the manual to see if you can use an external preamp. Some SIAB's allow you to insert a stand-alone preamp after the built-in, thus avoiding any preamp-to-preamp issues. Others allow external preamps but force you to route them via digital IN which means you need a preamp with A/D converters. If you want to expand your SIAB, an external preamp is often a first step. And after recording for a year or so you may not like the built-in pre's. If you can't easily add an external pre, you may want to rethink your purchase.

 

[napalm229]

Hi, I am also a newbie and first of all, I feel your pain as to the uncertainty of what you are getting into. First of all, listen to everything dwillis45 tells you...he has given me a lot of good advice. Everyone here has been really helpful.

Consider this...sound treatment may be the most important thing you do. I had no idea as to the importance of it as I got started...but I am starting to realize that it may be the most important thing that you do. Get some books on it and study up. There are some good links on here that will help...there are several dealers that sell baffles and such, but if you enterprising with tools you can buy cork board panels at your nearest home improvement store and build them...agian, read up on this. It will help you lots...but it can be confusing and a little daunting if you are a novice like me. But I built my baffles for about $20... they work really well!

Also, following the advice of the folks on here...monitors are very important. GOOD ones. This can be pricey too...I invested in a pair of Mackie HR824's....they are awesome..but they are pretty high. I got mine off of ebay ($800 a pair)..probably more new.

I still am fumbling through this but am finding it to be a lot of fun, although I need to get a second job to pay for all of this stuff. Good luck man!

 

[cybergiz]

Thanks again!
The link Nick gave me to the AW16G forum was really useful. I have been reading a lot of the posts there and it has certainly made me reconsider my choice. The AW16G sounds like it is a good unit, but can be quite difficult to get to grips with, and the manual does not sound very user friendly either. (Thanks to Rolf and dwills for making me consider the manual before purchasing). The point about mics is well taken and I will give this a lot of consideration. Napalm also has made an important point about monitors, I am beginnining to underatand that having good quality monitors is very important.

Has anyone got any opinions or views on the Boss 1600CD. My first (novices) impression is that the unit looks very well laid out, like the Yamaha up to 8 tracks can be recorded simultaneously, but it has a 40Gb hard disc, and what sound like some interesting vocal tools. I am a guitarist primarily and I use individual Boss effects pedals. This unit has the Boss effects built in and they are apparently identical in sound to the individual Boss pedals (presumably the same chips). That could be quite useful for me as I was thinking of buying some more pedals. Anybody know if these onboard effects are as good as the individual Boss pedals?

Well I've only been on the forum a few days but I'm finding out some good information.

 

[noisedude]

This thread is an oldie but I wanted to add for you Brits on here looking for 'reputable dealers' ... Digital Village (www.dv247.com) have the largest range of stock at the best prices. I tend to check a price on there and then go to a Sound Control or Academy of Sound store (plenty around the country) once I know what I want to buy AND AT WHAT PRICE. Any shop you go in will try to sell you stuff but if you're strict you can get deals. And remember, if you've been reading online from the American guys you probably know more than the salesmen in the English shops anyway!

 

[SPINSTERWUN]

cybergiz, exactly how much money are you willing to spend?