Advice for a pair of Choir mics please

[Rauld]

Hi,

I am advisng the purchase of a pair (or two pair) of mics for a 20-30 person choir. They will be used for sound reinforcment as well as recording the performances. The venues are small to fairly large churches and halls. I read on the super long mic thread that omnis are recommended and I can use cardioids. I was leaning toward cardiods because I fear easier feedback with the omnis. (shudders at the sound) Is this a justified fear? Also, I was leaning toward the NT3's because of the ability to use batteries. Not sure that all places that they will use the mics will have a board with phantom power. Can anyone give me some direction or let me know if I am heading in the right direction? Do I need two pair if they can afford it? Are the NT3's okay for this application? I appreaciate any advice!

Thanks,

Raul

 

[wilkee]

The fact that you need them for PA duty rules out anything but cardiods.

I have used the NT3s since they were introduced and I think that they would be fine for this application,just make sure that you have Hi-pass filtering available on your mixer which will help with definition.

Do not use the NT3s for Hand held use, IMO they are not suitable.

 

[Beezoboy]

Some other mics to think about would be the Neumann km184 though they are a bit steep. And if you want to go with some less pricey but good sounding mics, try the MXL 603s. I have used the MXL603's on groups and they sound pretty good. Don't forget t get yourself a nice stand that can go pretty high so you don't pick up too much crowd noise and such.

Beezoboy

 

[FenderTL5]

If it were me I would not rely on batteries for power in a church application. In a lot of apps those will get hung from the ceiling so access will be limited. Keeping a fresh supply of batteries can be a chore. 1st thing you know you're stretching the limits of battery life or you're out a week and the backup does not know that it is to be done and a mic will fail during a service.

I wouldn't risk it. Just consider powering the mics part of it.

Just my $.02

 

[Cave Dweller]

if the mics are to be used in many different venues, consider also buying a small 4 channel mixer. i know many people think otherwise, but i would reccomend one of the small behringers. they are cheap, and i think they sound pretty good. the 2 mics i use for choir and large groups are a AKG C391 and a AKG C535.

 

[NoFO]

I used a pair of Octava 012's on a choir and they sounded great. When the wind was'nt blowing, that is. Don't know if other mics promise better wind rejection, but at $99 a pop, these babies are worth it. They come in a nice hard case with mic clips and a -10 db pad. And they sounded great on acoustic guitar.

 

[octoruss]

Also consider the Elation KM201s. I have used a pair on a choir and they sounded spectacular. Granted it was indoors in a church. But next week I'm recording the same choir outdoors. NoFo, you have me worried as this is the first time I'll be recording outdoors and I wonder how well a studio windscreen will work to diffuse wind. Did you use wind screens in your application?

 

[Rauld]

Octoruss, Nofo, Cave Dweller, FenderTL5, Beezoboy, wilkee

Thank you all very much for the advice. I was concerned about the feedback issue therefore I am going cardioid. Unfortunately, Neumann's are a bit out of the budget but I will research the other mics and come to a conclusion. I will advise them on getting a small mixer or at least a couple of phantom power supply boxes as well. I will also take into account the wind factor and high pass filtering. I'll let you know the outcome.

Thanks again!,

Raul

 

[wilkee]

But next week I'm recording the same choir outdoors. NoFo, you have me worried as this is the first time I'll be recording outdoors and I wonder how well a studio windscreen will work to diffuse wind. Did you use wind screens in your application?

Yes you will need some form of suppression if the "wind doth blow" but studio pop stoppers will be no use at all.

Try the foam condom types but make sure you try before the big event as it is to late on the day.

 

[NoFO]

i actually did a post a last week complaining that i DID have the "condom type" windscreens on, it was'nt that windy and we were gettting nasty wind popping.

My questions-

Is there a "superior" windscreen?

Should we try two windscreens?

Would multiple windscreens affect the sound?

Does the wind hurt the diapraghm?


Does anyone know? I will be keeping an eye on this to see how your weekend goes, octoruss.

lata

 

[octoruss]

NoFo, now I am even more worried. I spoke to the folks at the Sound Room about getting a windscreen for my Elations to use outdoors. He said that a special "outdoor" windscreen is available for these (and other small diaphragm mics) but they run $45 a piece. ..this compared to the $3 of a normal windscreen.

I didn't get the epxensive ones, as I just can't bring myself to spend $100 on windscreens. But I think I'm going to make this issue a seperate thread and hope somebody has a creative, less expensive solution...

 

[Harvey Gerst]

lata,

sorry I'm a little late getting into this thread. You're right; foam windscreens don't work for your application. The movie people use a special "blimp" and a furry windscreen over the mic to disperse the wind energy. It's often called a "dead cat" because it looks like a long haired dead cat with a mic stand shoved up its rear.

The leading maker of these windscreens is Rykote. Sennheiser makes a similar unit called the MZH60-1. Both are pretty expensive. If you can find some lightweight, fuzzy socks, try putting those OVER the foam windscreen on each mic - the fuzzier, the better. You might hafta boost the highs a bit to compensate for any loss. If the wind isn't too bad, that should get you by.

 

[Rauld]

Hello Folks,

Just wanna let you know on what I chose to recommend to the choir. I ended up recommending AKG C1000s. The reason being is that they are tooted as being good all around type of mics. They want to use them for recording as well as live use and since they are getting 4, one could use them to mic solo performers when needed. I also recommended a mackie 1202vlz pro for mic pre's and so they could have control on a mix from where they are singing (they have an acoustic guitarist with them sometimes too). Thank you for your advice!

Raul

 

[chessrock]

I ended up recommending AKG C1000s. The reason being is that they are tooted as being good all around type of mics.

Yea, I'd always go with whatever something is tooted as.

 

[ap]

Hey, I have a similar question

I have recently been asked to record a choir, and I don't think it will be during service. I will only be using my stuff, inside, and only for recording so PA etc. is unimportant.

I have two MXL 603's, a SP C1, a shure SM-57, and a Mackie 1202.

Never recorded a choir before.

What's best placement with what I got? How many/what models would be ideal?

 

[littledog]

Hello Folks,

Just wanna let you know on what I chose to recommend to the choir. I ended up recommending AKG C1000s. The reason being is that they are tooted as being good all around type of mics.

Raul

Is it too late to change your mind? I fear you've been listening to the wrong tooting!

 

[Rauld]

I have to go on what I hear about beacuse I honestly don't have too much experience recording choir. I read in a Keyboard interview that Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis used them on choir before. I trust their ears. I also liked that they have cardiod and hyper-cardiod patterns. I could get them for $300 the pair. I read a reviewer that liked the sound and said they were solidly built. I also liked the battery option should they ever have to use it. One could be used as a lead vocal mic should they have a solo vocalist on a number. This is how I justified my recommendation. I feel that price is right for what I believe is a good mic. Is there any reason I should believe these are not good mics for what I am doing? For what reason are these mics looked upon negatively?

Thanks for your reply,

Raul

 

[chessrock]

Man, my ears are already starting to hurt.

With all due respect, Rauld, people frequent forums like this one and ask questions like yours in the hope that they don't get burned by marketing hype or bad information. You have the advantage of several folks who have years worth of experience with most of the mics you ask about. So you ask a question and get several very good answers: like the Oktava mc012 and the elations . . . mics that have made many a person happy with their expensive sound.

Not everywhere you go are you going to get recommendations for the Elations, for example. That's a gold mine worth of advice right there. Yet, you went ahead and made a purchase based on a magazine review and marketing hype.

Why even bother asking us, then?

I'm only half busting your chops, now. But it is a common newbie error. Newbie buys harsh-sounding mic, then looks to forum for affirmation of his bad purchase. Which is fine, but he would have been much better off if he had asked for mic recommendations before purchasing, and then heeding the good advice he receives. That said, I think it's a very one-dimensional mic - good for accoustic guitar but too harsh for anything else. And I think the Oktavas and Elations sound wonderful (especially for the price) on almost everything you point them at - including voice. Ironically, much more diverse mics, in my opinion.

 

[Rauld]

Chessrock,

Thank you for your reply. I did my research and thought I had a good buy for the features and what I read, the sound. I will reconsider this due to your reply though. I have been recording for a while but not too much with choir. I will hopefully halt the purchase.

Thans once again,

Raul

 

[littledog]

Very often celebrities are paid to endorse certain products. It is not uncommon for an endorser to gladly tout (toot?) a product that he/she wouldn't be caught dead using in real life. The fact that the endorsemnt occurs in an "article" rather than advertisement has no relevance.

Concerning the C1000's, they are neither rare nor difficult to find. Any Guitar Center, MARS, or whatever is nearby probably has them. My advice is ultimately don't take anyone's word for it - try them out. If the C1000's give you the sound you are looking for on a choir, then congratulations, and what the rest of us think doesn't mean squat. The C1000 would not be the LAST mic I would reach for on a choral recording (the D112 might be!) but it would by no means be in my top 100 either. It is very well built, I grant you. I just think it sounds ugly.