Advantages Vs Disadvantage of DI

[schismatic]

for the guys using modellers - have you tried using impulses of real amp cabinets through convolution reverbs? I usually run my dual rect. amp models through an impulse of a mesa boogie 4x12. certainly gives it more "real air" than a cab sim does!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

there is a reference point for all artists of what is a 'good' sound.

Why? Why is that just about the only form of art for which there are such rules and for which there are hard definitions for what is "good"?

G.

 

[Cazzbar]

But isn't the point modelers are just that? they're just trying to model/copy real amps

Although I've always encouraged guitarists I've played with to use modelers when recording because I love the fidelity that DI'ing gives you, my brother brought around his Fender + real amp the other day and it was just in another world, gave me the old goosebumps.

As a keyboard player I haven't been conditioned about guitar sounds or anything, I don't really care, which is why I've encouraged guys to DI in the past. But the first second I heard my brother's guitar through that amp I knew it was "the real deal" (define that how you will!)

(even the sound of the amp just being on and not being played was pleasing if only you could record that unique musty amp'y scent as well lol)

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Why? Why is that just about the only form of art for which there are such rules and for which there are hard definitions for what is "good"?

Because we don't live in a bubble. We grow up listening to our favorite musical artists over and over again and there's an emotional connection there that usually doesn't go away. Music and technology evolve together. There may be some psychoacoustic/harmonic series reason that people find amps/mics pleasing, but I wouldn't know anything about that. Maybe Bob Katz or someone else knows.

I suppose I shouldn't have said "all artists", but I also wouldn't go so far as to use "rules" and "hard definitions". I personally prefer amps over pods, but I wouldn't avoid listening to someone's art just because they used pods. It almost always comes down to the song. The best guitar sound in the world can't save a crappy song.

All just IMHO.

One of the main issues I was facing was the feedback issue.

You can always overdub feedback effect tracks using a modest (even $20 modest) tiny amp that sits on your desk or wherever. Continuous feedback does affect a guitar sound, but many guitarists record their guitars in the control room anyway so it's different level of feedback than standing next to an amp and kind of negligible, IMO.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

We grow up listening to our favorite musical artists over and over again and there's an emotional connection there that usually doesn't go away.

Exactly. It's the exact same reason why my parents thought that rock & roll sucked and why I'm not (yet) the biggest fan of rap (though I'm coming round to some of the later stuff a bit more). It's not because rock n' roll sucks or because rap sucks. It's because we all, in our own way, have indeed grown up in a bubble; the bubble of our personal experience. It's that same bubble that biases our opinions of what sounds good or bad in the tonality of an electric guitar.

Some of us break that bubble and recoginize that just because something is unfamiliar or not part of what we expereinced during our formative years doesn't mean it's not good. I didn't grow up on Gene Krupa or Robert Johnson or Woodie Guthrie, or - on the other end - Smashmouth or U2 or Ghostface Killah. Those are all outide of my formative bubble, and I had no emotional connection to them. But I love their stuff now, and I now have a whole new emotional connection to them.

And as far as the "its a modeler of an amp, therefore if it doesn't sound the same as an amp it doesn't sound as good", Ok, that's true. If you really want an amp sound, there's no substitute for the real thing, baby. Total agreement there. It's the desire or belief that a real amp sound is actually intrinsically superior that I question, and that I think it would be healthy for all creative artists to question. An emotional tie to a historical sound just isn't strong enough of a reason IMHO. If that were the ruling factor, we'd all still be listening to lutes and hollowed tree trunks.

Music and technology evolve together.

Profoundly true. And resistance to the sound of a modeler is resistance to that evolution. Those that think the sound of amps rules the day are those that want their music to sound like Led Zepplin IV for the rest of their lives, those that want to stay enclosed in the bubble of their adolescense.

I'm not saying that wrong, necessarily. If that's what someone prefers, that's their choice, and I'm OK with that. I'm just saying that it's a bit short-sighted and self-biased to take that personal desire and expand it to a general definition of what's good and what's not so good.

There may be some psychoacoustic/harmonic series reason that people find amps/mics pleasing, but I wouldn't know anything about that. Maybe Bob Katz or someone else knows.

I may not be a PhD, but I do have a fairly extensive education in physics and psychoacoustics, both from schooling as well as personal research and experience, and there is nothing I have found that would back that.

I'm not saying that it's impossible; but I am saying that IMHO it's a far more persuasive argument to say that many people find it more pleasing because it's what they have come to expect. The pleasure is not from the sound, but rather from the familiarity. It's inside their bubble. And that causes stagnation.

I personally prefer amps over pods, but I wouldn't avoid listening to someone's art just because they used pods. It almost always comes down to the song. The best guitar sound in the world can't save a crappy song.

Amen, brother. It also can't save a crappy performance. And on the other side of that coin, a great performance sounds great regardless of the sound. SRV sounds fantastic on an acoustic guitar, Son House gets an incredibe feeling even thorugh all the low fidelity, hiss and crackling of an old 78, and Carlos Santana sounds like Carlos Santana from a mile away whether he's on his PRS or a Les Paul, and regardless fo what amp he may be plugged into (or not).

I guess I just wish more folks would put as much effort into the song and the performance, the musicianship, as they do into their tone, and not make so big a mental divide between things like amps and DI processing. If so, the quality of home recordings would skyrocket.

All just IMHO.

Same here, my friend. Just having a discussion, not an argument .

G.

 

[Micter]

There is no way as a guitar player I could or would ever use a DI signal on anything other than a scratch track. Guitar tone is very important to me and I need to have hot glass in my signal chain. I don't care how anyone else feels about it there is no way to convince me that a modeler is close to what a kranked tube amp will yeild in any situation. The guitar amp combination is in fact one instrument the way I see it. A fake amp just doesn't cut it!

Now, I do realize that not everyone is capable of getting great tones by micing an amp. That has a lot to do with technique.

 

[Neeps]

But isn't the point modelers are just that? they're just trying to model/copy real amps

You never hear a real amp directly anyway just a model of the way it sounds created by your brain. All perception including the sense of hearing is the brain modelling the external enviroment. But I'll conceed it probably does a better job than Line 6.

 

[Cazzbar]

You never hear a real amp directly anyway just a model of the way it sounds created by your brain. All perception including the sense of hearing is the brain modelling the external enviroment.

*grabs coat!* if i hang around here you'll be convincing me that all money is owned by the government and that it doesn't matter who gets the drinks in so i might as well get them in, and i'll probably fall for it

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

*grabs coat!* if i hang around here you'll be convincing me that all money is owned by the government and that it doesn't matter who gets the drinks in so i might as well get them in, and i'll probably fall for it

That's alright, don't worry about it Cazz. That wasn't actually Barn Owl saying that; that was just a model in your brain of the meaning of those words. In fact, since the post itself is only a model of Barn owl's thoughts, what you read was only a model of a model.

Who'da thought that a question about a bunch of inept shredding could turn so exestential?

G.

 

[Neeps]

The thoughts themselves direct are much better. Personally speaking it's the only way I ever think.