advanced distorted guitar miking techniques

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maskedman72

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most of us put 2 mics on a 4x12 cab. lets say a sm57 and a 421 or a 4033 or whatever.
i have found that in doing this my guitar sound is still missing that fullness or hugeness that can be acheived.......somehow.

how can it be made bigger, better and meaner? i read a article and the writer asked "how many speakers are in a 4x12 cab?"
we all know it is four so he went on to ask well than if there are 4 speakers than why would you use anything less than 4 mics?
his way of getting a big sound was to use 4 different mics on the cab.
if you step away from a cab a few feet you will get a spot where all 4 speakers will come togther.....put a 5th mic in that spot on top of the other 4 and blend them in. i have not tried this as of yet but if this is how the big guys are doing it than that tells me something. the question i have is how do you(yes you) go about getting that huge sound and if i was to use 5 mics wouldnt that cause all kinds of crazy phase problems?
it seems that everyone i talk to that is in this profession is always striving for that huge type of sound but never getting it to a point where they are happy.
 
the largest amount of mikes i've used on a cab is 4..........that's 3 on the cab and one room mic............i ended up not using the room mic, cause it caused waaaayyyy bad phase problems. the 3 mics i ended up useing were..........an atm 25, a shure beta 58, and an at63.......i think.....i dunno if that was the actual name of the last mic (i borrowed it from a friend) the room mic was an at3035, and it would have sounded good used as a single mic on a softer type of music, but it soudned like crap with the other 3 mics.

i think is got a pretty huge sound..........once i get the final mixes done i may post one or 2 up. i've been working on this band for 2 months now......we did 3 weekend sessions and then teh computer crapped out and we jsut finally got it fixed............i never used to have a problem with mac, but i have never had this many problems with a p.c. i don't like mac any longer.
 
Use your 2 mics just like you always do.

Then record the track played exactly the same way 2 times.

Pan your 2 takes somewhere right and left- voila: huge guitar.

If you have a good sounding room try an ambient mic about 5 to 10 feet from the cab. Move it around until it sounds good then blend it in with your other 2 mics. Heck, try 2 set up in x/y or coincident pair and pan them right and left.

Also, really play with placements of your cab mics. I've never had to do anything for my distorted tracks but be picky with my sm57 or mxl 603.

Oh, and play with the amp settings. If your mics sound close but not quite, try messing with the amp settings a little.

Have fun!
Chris

P.S. Don't forget to leave room for the other instruments in the mix! Huge guitar sounds often sound like crap as soon as you add a bass or a singer.
 
i do record 2 takes or "double" the tracks. still no hugeness.
 
get a good tone to begin with. get your ears right in there where the microphone will be, or at least close.

also, in the case of distorted guitar, i find that "less is more", up to a point. meaning, the less distortion you're using, the MORE distorted and "big" it will sound once recorded! this is because a heavily distorted sound ends up being "smooth" when mixed in with a song, where as a guitar that sounds like it's just sort of breaking up will sound a lot "rougher".


the Less is More thing also applies to the guitar amp, and sometimes the volume you run at, too. some of the biggest, baddest guitar tones i've ever gotten are from rickety old 8", 15 watt combo solid state amps at low volume levels. they tend to have a sort of midrange bump, right where you want it when fitting in with a mix. a 4x12 Marshall cab, on the other hand, tends to be really boomy, and lacking in mid-highs especially, at least to my ears. exactly what you DON'T want on a recording, though it's good for live shows because it fills up a room better.

and yes, always double-track guitars.
i also find that i do best with just one mic close up- sometimes a 57, sometimes even my Rode NT1 will sound great, depending on the amp. move it around a lot and experiment.
the problem with putting in a distant mic is that it tends to move the guitars further back in the mix, making them less present and possibly less "large" as a result. that kind of reverb is great for a lone guitar that's the centre of the mix, but awful for in-your-face, power-chord rock'n'roll.

good luck!
 
I use one SM57, sometimes 2, on a 4x12 cab and have no problems getting that sound you are looking for. A lot of times it's just using positioning and eq. It's amazing what you can do with a single live guitar track once you mix it to two tracks.
 
do some serious testing of how mic position affects the signal you're putting down, and of course, make sure you like what's coming out of your stack to begin with. feel free to take as many cuts of the same lick as you want, or even use mild delay to double the same track, but my supicion is that if you aren't already cutting out a lot of the bass, you're going to get a lot of mud in the low end that will interfere with bass and drums. if your guitar doesn't sound think enough, and you haven't laid a bass track for it, you might want to try that, after cutting out the excessive lows on the guitar. it's surprising sometimes how much of a difference that can make. what sounds good in a room frequently does not sound good through a series of transducers going into a static medium.
 
bleyrad said:
. some of the biggest, baddest guitar tones i've ever gotten are from rickety old 8", 15 watt combo solid state amps at low volume levels.
Click to expand...

What sort of volume levels are you talking about when you do this? As loud as a TV? Not as loud? Loud enough to drown out a TV? Been struggling with this myself recently.
 
Take two mics and position them for close micing,than put the board in mono to check the phase.Once both mics are out of phase/cancelling eachother pop the phase reverse on one of the mics...
 
bleyrad said:
get a good tone to begin with.

. . . also, in the case of distorted guitar, i find that "less is more", up to a point.

the Less is More thing also applies to the guitar amp . . .

and yes, always double-track guitars.

. . . move it around a lot and experiment.
Click to expand...

Let's see here . . . point one: nailed it, nailed it also on point 2, nailed it on point 3, and uh, nailed it yet again on point 4.

The first thing to ask yourself is does your guitar already sound the way you want it, in the room . . . as is. If not, then you should experiment with different amplifiers, guitars, technique or even pickups untill you find it.

For recording, I find that smaller amps almost always deliver bigger tones for some reason (the less is more thing again :D).

In terms of double-tracking, try playing the same chord, only in a different position on the fret board. You can even try tuning it down a step and/or using a capo, just so you won't be playing it in the exact same spot. Minor tonal variations will help give it greater complexity as you combine the tracks.

And I know I just got done saying less is more :D, but you should also try using different types of mics on each successive take. Again, think small tonal variations for each one.

Don't underestimate the importance of the kind of strings you're using as well as the quality of the pickups.
 
Don't forget the option of having the cabinet lie with it's back on the floor. Natural sounding hugeness. Also, part of what makes a guitar sound huge is the way it sits with the sound of the bass guitar.
 
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