Additional mic to sm57 for Amp Recording

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faessi

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Hi guys!

Glad that I found a board like this in the net.

I'm right now get my guitar sound to a new level in the studio, I've just bought a Marshal JVM 410 and an isolation cabinet with a Celestion G12K-100 Speaker. I have two mic holders and I'm now a bit curious which microphones I should get for a really nice fat metal sound (also staccato stuff of course). I thought about a sm57 like most users use but what about the second mic? Would you suggest a large diaphragm tube mic, or another condenser mic or something else? I've heard some people talking about a blue baby bottle or a TLM 103. I can't spend more than 600 USD, or at least not too much ;-)

I would appreciate if you can give me some hints about this, thanks in advance.
 
faessi said:
Hi guys!

Glad that I found a board like this in the net.

I'm right now get my guitar sound to a new level in the studio, I've just bought a Marshal JVM 410 and an isolation cabinet with a Celestion G12K-100 Speaker. I have two mic holders and I'm now a bit curious which microphones I should get for a really nice fat metal sound (also staccato stuff of course). I thought about a sm57 like most users use but what about the second mic? Would you suggest a large diaphragm tube mic, or another condenser mic or something else? I've heard some people talking about a blue baby bottle or a TLM 103. I can't spend more than 600 USD, or at least not too much ;-)

I would appreciate if you can give me some hints about this, thanks in advance.
Click to expand...


I don't like condensers on my cab (not with high gain sounds anyway)--to harsh sounding. I like a ribbon mic. In fact, I usually record with a 57 and ribbon mic. The 57 is edgy with lots of midrange attack, and the ribbon is warmer and smoother. I mix the two to taste (usually about 50/50) and they sound great together.

My 2 cents.
 
I'd take a look at the MD421. They're brilliant dynamic mics with quite a strong bottom-end compared to the '57 - in my experience not boomy or muddy, just a bit deeper and fuller. Be prepared to get the gaffer-tape out though because the clip is abysmal and they have a habit of nose-diving off of stands!

Blend that with an SM57 (or something a bit brighter, maybe a condenser) and you should get quite a pleasing, tight and powerful tone.

As always YMMV - most of the tone is down to what is actually coming out of the amp and mic placement (which can get a bit trickier with several mics).
 
Welcome to the fold man. ;)

I use a 57 up on the grill and (lately) started using a MXL 960 (with a tube upgrade) out about 3 feet into the room. My room is treated and sounds pretty good so that helps.

Also, I tend to turn down the gain when I'm tracking metal guitars. They sit in the mix better. Usually about 1 1/2 to 2 clicks less gain than I would normally use if I was playin live.

my 2c mang....:cool:
 
There are lots of good options and 'ways to get there- many interchangable. And with theses differences more in line with 'flavor, and less significant than even the other basic viables- you might also ask if this second mic will be called on to do other things well, opening options up in that respect?
 
ribbon. or ribbon + dynamic

I have some cheap ribbons in which I replaced the transformers, and they're great for the purpose, in my book. A better ribbon mic would probably work right out of the box.

an SM57 will tend to enhance the mids some (which could be good), and an Audix I5 to me sounds like it scoops the mids a little (which could be good)

I've had two MD-421s for a few months now, but with no clips, so I haven't yet used them much, or at all on amps :o - heard they're good :) Whitestrat has some, too.

I haven't had much luck with condensers, but haven't tried too hard. I tend to get a sizzly sound.
 
antichef said:
ribbon. or ribbon + dynamic

I have some cheap ribbons in which I replaced the transformers, and they're great for the purpose, in my book. A better ribbon mic would probably work right out of the box.

an SM57 will tend to enhance the mids some (which could be good), and an Audix I5 to me sounds like it scoops the mids a little (which could be good)

I've had two MD-421s for a few months now, but with no clips, so I haven't yet used them much, or at all on amps :o - heard they're good :) Whitestrat has some, too.

I haven't had much luck with condensers, but haven't tried too hard. I tend to get a sizzly sound.
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You don't need clips! You just need electrical tape (and a stand that you don't want to use for anything else!) :D

(If done right, the mess of electrical tape will even look like a mic clip from a mere 30 to 40 feet away!)
 
I can assure you that ribbons kick ass on amps, even by themselves I prefer them to an SM57.

I plan on using an e609 with my Fathead II, should be an excellent combination.
 
My favorite setup on guitar amps is actually two SM57's. I put one positioned 90 degrees to the grill cloth as close as possible without touching it in the center of the speaker. The other one i place in 45 degrees angle to the cloth as close as possible to the first mic to avoid any phase problems. This setup gives a much fatter and in your face sound than using just one SM57.
I have never tried ribbon mics though, but I have never gotten satisfying results with condenser mics. Or perhaps on very laidback and quiet tracks it can work well with a condenser a couple of metres away from the amp...
 
Wow, thank you all so much for your answers! The ribbon-solutions sounds very good to me. But isn't there a problem with the sound pressure level with the ribbon mics? I thought they're very sensitive to this. What else can you suggest for a ribbon mic? The Fathead II sounds interesting, but I live in Switzerland and I didn't found any shops that would ship to Switzerland. Thanks in advance!

Edit: please be aware that I have to place the mics near the speaker, because I have online 10-20 cm space for the mics inside my isolation cab.
 
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Ribbons aren't particularly sensitive to SPL, I don't think, but rather to gusting air -- if you had a bass vent in a bass cab or something like that, then the whoosh of air could tear the ribbon, but on any guitar amp I've worked with (including a very loud Marshall half stack), it's no issue.
 
faessi said:
..Edit: please be aware that I have to place the mics near the speaker, because I have online 10-20 cm space for the mics inside my isolation cab.
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Only being very general- Ribbon' / fig-8 -proximity effect -extended low end ('free field' vs many of the dynamics in the running with dropping low ends) = comparable fullness/body at greater distances.

Gad. Is that so vague as to be total useless? :o :)
 
my friends band got a really good guitar sound out of a 57 and 58
 
I have quite a few Metal tones tracked with ribbons here.

R92
R84
Trion 7000
Fat Head
 
WhiteStrat said:
I don't like condensers on my cab (not with high gain sounds anyway)--to harsh sounding. I like a ribbon mic. In fact, I usually record with a 57 and ribbon mic. The 57 is edgy with lots of midrange attack, and the ribbon is warmer and smoother. I mix the two to taste (usually about 50/50) and they sound great together.

My 2 cents.
Click to expand...

whats your thoughts on the CAD trion 7000 ribbon mic?
 
bkkornaker said:
whats your thoughts on the CAD trion 7000 ribbon mic?
Click to expand...

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that mic. My only exposure to ribbon mics has been the few I've picked up from the group buys orchestrated here on this board. As much as I like them--considering how cheap they were--I'm thinking maybe I should look into some more known ribbons...
 
Vintage sound

Hi,

I wanted a vintage sound on my Hungarians CD so I used an SM56 (my 57 was on snare) and an EV RE11. The EV had more high end and more high end detail. Sometimes I mixed them and sometimes I used just the SM56. Also some tracks are acoustic.

http://archive.org/details/blues_for_peace_cd

I played a Fender Lead guitar into my Silvertone twin with Celestion classic speakers. No pedals. Great rig for what I do.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
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