Adding To My System

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jamal buchet

jamal buchet

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HI I JUST BOUGHT A BOSS1180CD RECORDER , AND THE FEW THINGS I HAVE DONE ON IT SOUND REALLY ....LETS SEE...HOW ABOUT STALE?...AND WAS WONDERING WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST WAY TO ADD LIFE TO MY SOUND...?.IN THE WAY OF JOE MEEK OR SOME SORT OF EQ MAYBE??,,ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED,.....THANKS
 
It all depends on what the source of the problem is. i.e. "Why does it sound thin?"

To answer that, post a clip we can hear if you can, and let us know what equipment you're using (mics, mixer, instruments, etc..)
 
What he said!

And can you plz press Caps Lock, thank you!
 
sorry about the caps....um i have something on no where radio..lets see...i dont know how to make the automatic web address thing yet its underMY_NEW_HEAD..tho,....if that helps...thanks for pointing me in the right direction tho.
 
Yo Jamal:

There was a great piano dude named "Jamal" something or another; I can't remember the last name.

Not familiar with your recording gear but they all have similar characteristics.

First of all, do you have a reverb box or reverb built into your gear?

If so, you may need a bit to pump up the vocals, and maybe something else; usually drums need very little reverb; they might need some EQ but not too much reverb, unless you're looking for a special type of effect to affect the song.

Do you use a pre amp? A good mic pre can really help your "final" sound quality.

What type of mics do you use? Bad mics equal bad input which equals a bad final mix.

How do you mix? If you use cans, stop! Use monitors.

How hot do you record on your gear? Some gear needs to be pushed up to the distort levels. Depends on what you want to hear in the final mix.

How long do you spend mixing? I've worked on one tune for ten hours to get just one mix; then, I spent another five hours to get a different type of mix.

Practice, practice, practice. Hope this helps.
Green Hornet
:p :p :p :p :cool: :cool: :cool:
 
hey thanks for the advice,,,i recorded everything so far direct into the recorder...used pre-set effects.....ran my elec drum set direct as well...and i sorta liked the sound however when i burn c.d's it sounds so sterile...i guess i expected this damn recorder to sound like something somewhat professional oops....so now i need to find out how to freshen up the sound...probably need to spend more time with it. but when u spend 8 days recording a song its sorta dissapointing,to not have it sound so great....but all of this is a work in progress..and the wealth of info on this sight is astounding..sp all is not lost!...thanks'

jamal
 
Jamal, this is a human thing. I'll bet Michael Jordan played basketball for ten hours, and was an instant pro, right? Compare the amount of time you've spent with this (perfectly good) recorder to the hours any "pro" in any field has spent becoming what he or she is, and I think you'll have part of the answer.
That said, a recorder is just a recorder. It saves what you give it. There's a whole lot more to this than what's in your box. Good mics, placed well, into good cables, into good preamps (the pres in your recorder *are* a weak point in your signal chain) into good quality effects used damn little (you can get a lot better effects units than the ones in that recorder), mixed by an experienced expert with good ears=good sound. From what I hear, right now, the only part of that that you have is a pretty good recorder. Did I mention that if the musicians suck, you will still fail?
I'll guarantee you this.- With a few mics (none over $250),
1 modest preamp ($300 or less), 1 halfway decent fx box (again under $300), a couple stands, some cables, and a quiet room, there are people on this board who could record a grammy winner on your Boss! Note that this "not more than $300" adds up pretty fast, but that's OK, because the experience and good ears I referred to will take a bit longer than raising a couple of grand.
Many people believe that buying some piece of equipment will make you an engineer, like buying a basketball will make you an NBA player. Be patient, and stick around, because getting there is most of the fun. You'll win little victories over your sound, your gear, your room, etc. that will make it all worth it. Welcome to this board- stick around.-Richie
 
The Green Hornet said:
Yo Jamal:

There was a great piano dude named "Jamal" something or another; I can't remember the last name.

Assuming you are referring to the definitely great "Ahmad Jamal", the use of the past tense is definitely premature. :cool:
 
i totally understand what your saying i guess what i should say is i have been performing my songs for freinds and stuff always live.i had no idea it was sooo hard to translate that onto a c.d. thats all i didnt expect to sound perfect just seems that the manufacturers sorta mis-represent the quality you get "right out of the box"..you know?....all i have ever used was my acoustic guitar and my voice...so all the peripheral things i have to learn now just seems so daunting.....of course i have no patience to speak of either...lol
 
Hey Man, Don't give up! I do acoustic guitar and vocals as well, and I thought that getting that magic all-in-one box (a Yamaha MD4S) would make hits for me. The problem is that these companies do lead to you believe that their box will make hits for you. They tout "CD-Quality" sound, well what the h*ll does that mean? I guess it means that it can output a wav file at 44.1kHz/16 bits. Well it take alot more than that to make something sound good! Keep at it and feel free to ask any specific questions. I've been at this for about 3 years and I still am learning stuff. :)

PS - here's how I look at recording. First is the player/performance. That needs to be great! Then the environment you're playing in. I have a Auralex'd up basement which sounds pretty dead, except I have my d*mn PC fan blowing :( Then you have the mics and preamps which take the sound from the environment and translate it into an electronic signal. The quality of this signal depends on the source (combo of environment and player/performance), the quality of the mic, where you point the mic, and the quality of the preamp. This signal then goes into your Analog/Digital converters where the signal is translated into bits. The recorder is basically just a place to store those bits so they can be played back later. I won't get into mixing now, but that's tracking in a nutshell!
 
jamal buchet said:
i totally understand what your saying i guess what i should say is i have been performing my songs for freinds and stuff always live.i had no idea it was sooo hard to translate that onto a c.d. thats all i didnt expect to sound perfect just seems that the manufacturers sorta mis-represent the quality you get "right out of the box"..you know?....all i have ever used was my acoustic guitar and my voice...so all the peripheral things i have to learn now just seems so daunting.....of course i have no patience to speak of either...lol
Manufacturers didn't misrepresent unit capabilities, only the users abilities. Like any skill, it takes lots of time, trial and error and experience to make decent recordings. A pro with a porta-studio will always make better recordings than a newbie in a pro studio with access to millions of dollars of gear. Every time.
 


PS -I have a Auralex'd up basement which sounds pretty dead, except I have my d*mn PC fan blowing :( Then you have the mics and preamps which take the sound from the environment and translate it into an electronic signal. The quality of this signal depends on the source (combo of environment and player/performance), the quality of the mic, where you point the mic, and the quality of the preamp. This signal then goes into your Analog/Digital converters where the signal is translated into bits. The recorder is basically just a place to store those bits so they can be played back later. I won't get into mixing now, but that's tracking in a nutshell! [/B]


ok so then my logical next question would be this....i decent fender guitar , line 6 amplifier, roland digital drumset, and this BOSSbr1180cd recorder...f you were me what would be your next step purchase wise ?.oh and just to prove how lost i am....what is auralex..?..and is dead sounding good?..lol..(funny how all my freinds think im this ace musician)..roflmao

jamal
 
Jamal,
I would work on getting a decent vocal mic and then a preamp. Check out the Rack and Microphone forums. Auralex is foam. You can see my setup at http://photos.yahoo.com/evan_gordon under the Studio folder. Re. Dead vs. Live, it's easier for us homerec'ers to deaden a room (especially a small room) and to add reverb at mixdown. Ideally, you'd probably want a larger live sounding room which sounds good, but this is impractical for most of us.
Good luck!
 
You're doing great, Jamal, just keep asking the questions. Essentially, start with a couple of mics and mic stands, get good cables. Start with good cheap stuff, and begin to learn the skills you need. You may really be a kickass musician, you're just not a recording engineer- yet. How many hours have you spent playing and singing? How many set of strings? How many hours recording? You were patient enough to learn to play guitar, now be patient enough to learn how to become a recording artist. At first, I would not get a preamp. Your Boss has preamps, maybe not great ones, but good enough for you to learn with. Work on yourself right now, instead of your gear. You will need a few mics, though, to get started. Read the microphone forum and post questions there. For cheap, I like Oktava MK319 for vocals, Oktava MC012 for acoustic guitar, and AKG D690 for mic'ing guitar amps. Most people use Shure SM57 instead of the AKG, but I just have to be different. Many people like MXL603 instead of the 012, but to learn, any of these mics will work just fine. Not only are such mics (condensers) and their expensive big brothers wonderful for recording, but they present you with a whole new learning opportunity. You have 2 huge learning curves to deal with now aside from the recorder.
If you're used to singing through a stage mic (usually a dynamic mic), you know it doesn't just capture your voice passively. You, the singer, use it as a tool, like your guitar. The guitar doesn't play itself, and neither does a mic. When you sing to a mic, *it* is the audience, so you have to impress it, and be in the right place with the right tone, at the right volume, at the right time. A condenser mic is a whole different animal, a new and different tool. The first time you sing through a condenser mic, you'll think, "Jesus, why did I buy this thing? I can hear every thing I'm doing wrong!" It's very humbling. In time, you will learn how to use it, and you will fall in love with it.
Your second learning curve will be the discovery that these mics are so sensitive that you can't really play and sing at the same time, because your guitar mic picks up your voice and the other way around, and you lose control of the 2 sounds. You will have to learn to play without singing, and then to sing over your guitar music monitoring yourself through headphones. At first, this will drive you nuts, but you can learn to do it. Then you will begin to understand the difference between a folk musician and a recording artist. There is much more, but that is enough to get started. Best of luck, brother-Richie
 
There is much more, but that is enough to get started. Best of luck, brother-Richie [/B]


excellent see thats what i need someone who has gone thru these same steps..there are sooooo many choices of stuff..and never having used any of it you just arent sure where to start?...so microphone it is...that was my next question...is itmore cost effective to have a good mic...or a ok mic w/ good effects..if you cant afford both i mean..?



and alsoto Gordone....it looks like you have those auralex things placed in specific spots?..or is it just the way the pic was taken?
none the less its looks like a pretty nice set up!


again thanks to all for their time and expertise

jamal
 
Start with a mic, and use your recorder's effects, if any, initially. What you need to do is learn to sing through the mic. Your recorder has some effects, at least reverb, I think, but it can't do diddly without a mic. What will you do with effects and no mic? Just look at your cool box, I guess. You've been singing for years without effects, try proximity effect as your first. If you've used stage mics at all, you know that when you get close to it, the tone gets deeper (more bass). This is called proximity effect. It happens with any directional mic. The most common directional mics are called cardioid, because the pickup, or polar pattern is shapel like a heart. It picks up more sound from the front, less from the sides, and very little from the rear. Make a pop filter by streching a piece of women's pantyhose across an embroidery hoop (check fabric stores for them- real cheap). Then mount it on something like wire from a coathanger, and place it just in front of the mic, not touching it. This will help with the pops from letters like "P". Just put your hand in front of your mouth when you say the letter "P", and you'll see why. That'll blow your ears off with a condenser mic and headphones!
You'll learn to back off on the p's and turn your head a little to the side on the p's and b's. The pop filter will also keep you from spitting on the diaphragm of the condenser mic. Water is real bad for them. Learning to sing to a mic instead of an audience is probably the single most important thing you can do to start becoming a singing recording artist. If you're not used to mics at all, start with a dynamic stage mic. As I said, I'm a little weird, and I use AKG D690. List is $80, and I just talked Guitar Center into selling me one for $36. I have no doubt you can pick one up for $65 if you show them the money.
Jamal, microphones are cruel things. They capture everything you do, especially the things that sound like s**t. First, learn to sing to a stage mic, which are often OK for recording also, then get a condenser. I think Marshall has a vocal condenser for about $100 (help me out here marshall users ?-MXL V67?) MARS Music carries them. The MK319 I mentioned lists for $200, but I recently talked Guitar Center into selling me one for $99. Shake 'em down, it's just like buying a car. You'll find the condenser is a lady even crueler than the dynamic, but can capture more good sounds also. If the dynamic is a good-natured cheap 'ho, the condenser is a high priced call girl. She's better looking and better in bed, but she'll drop you in a heartbeat if you don't give her what she wants, and bad mouth you around town.
I hope this helps, but don't just listen to me. Everybody around here has something to contribute, and they've all typed out this kind of stuff to newbies to try and help, it's just my turn, and it'll be confusing because we definitely don't all agree. This is not science, it's an art that just *uses* science. And this is what you owe me- When you are a badass, grammy- winning superstar, I want a backstage pass!-Richie
 
Make a pop filter by streching a piece of women's pantyhose across an embroidery hoop (check fabric stores for them- real cheap). Then mount it on something like wire from a coathanger, and place it just in front of the mic

ok wait a minute this is exactly what i have been in my studio doing...lol i cant beleive that can you see in my window??actually i just stretched the pantyhose directly over the hanger..that is so funny...yeah my mike is crap i think its a peavey it was around 60 bucks...all this info is like having a room full of mentors unbeleivable..im sure everyone new here says these things..but still to be on your own island for so long then to find a whole continent of people who are just like you !..and i asure when i get my gramy award i will definately thank all the fine folks at Home Recording Dot Com...bet on it !...thanks again

jamal
 
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