Acoustic Track, feedback welcome

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Phrasemaker

Phrasemaker

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Hi, I started this as a mic test and then decided to keep going with it to try and get an intimate sound with the vocal in an effort to get the track to convey in a believable manner. It might not be your cup of tea in so much as the song or my playing but I'm after advice on how to improve realism and presence if the consensus is that I'm a way off of it yet.
Yes, the vocal is meant to be laid back. Ray, if you read this I re did the bass, but I'm not convinced in this mix that the right hand guitar track is causing any issue. I tinkered with the harmonica and hope it's at an acceptable level, I also treated it a little as you suggested. I'm not sure if the track is a keeper or not but it's the overall feel that I want to get right for future recordings.

Many thanks

Tim

 
I like this a lot. I absolutely love the harmonica sound. Can you give any details on recording and mixing that you did?

As far as any improvements, I'd say the bass is the weakest point. It could use a little definition. I'd maybe fatten the guitars a bit. Those are just very minor nitpicks though. I really enjoyed the track.
 
Thanks for listening and replying, I appreciate you taking time to do so. The harmonica sound is a harmonica and I'm not saying that in a sarcastic way, it's just with modern technology and all, I guess it could be done with some fancy hard or software. I have a fair bit of reverb on it, but other than that it's played straight, into a large diaphragm mic at a distance of around 18 inches. The remainder of the track comprises of single instrument and vocal takes using the same mic for everything apart from the vocal where on this version I switched to a dynamic mic because at the time I wanted to do the vocal, there was a danger that some other noise might contaminate it if I used the large diaphragm which pretty much sucks in everything bar the furniture. Mix wise, I panned everything to different positions in the stereo field, applied a little EQ until everything seemed to gel as a whole. The entire mix was then subjected to a very light amount of compression. I have noted your thoughts about the guitars and bass, I'll make some tweaks to the guitars by way of EQ and see how the bass responds to similar treatment. I used a larger bass cab on this version, so maybe I didn't drive it hard enough, in which case I'll do another take using the smaller cab again which will allow me to crank it without setting off car alarms in the street outside. I have a feeling I'm going to explore this more organic kind of sound with a few more tracks, now I know I can get some reasonable takes using microphones.

Many thanks

Tim
 
Id put the drum in the middle, but it all sounds nice to me for sure.
 
I thought the vocal was OK. Might be just a hint of boxiness. Maybe a small and narrow cut somewhere around 1Khz might help. A pitchy note or two here and there (e.g., 1:41).

There was a little pop at :11 on the right side.

The mix seems to lean to the left. It's muddy on the left side.

Didn't care for the level of reverb on the harmonica.
 
TripleM, thanks for your feedback. Yes the pop, I have to identify which track it lurks in, and yes I agree the mix is a little left heavy, mainly to try and hide the guitar that I need to re take, I'll look into the pitchy notes and try a little tweak or two in respect of any boxiness. I have some fine tuning to do with that vocal set up, it took me a while to get where it is, as a fair chunk of my usable vocal output tends to hover around the areas that I have to keep on a leash, thus making it too thin or unable to cut through a mix if attenuated too much. It's a long game, but worth playing and I will get it nailed in due course. I appreciate the informed reply, I can see it will take some additional smoke and mirrors to slip anything by your ears. I'll ponder the reverb, that's kind of subjective in so much some like it some don't.

Thanks

Tim
 
Pretty sure you changed some things since I heard in the Songwriting forum...probably my fave out of the few of yours I've checked out.
Liked the "stripped-down" approach, lyrics work pretty well. I didn't hear the pop at all but the left leaning kind of threw me off a little.
I think the guitar on the right could come up a little....that's about all I got. I like the verb on the harmonica.
 
Phrasemaker said:
Hi, I started this as a mic test and then decided to keep going with it to try and get an intimate sound with the vocal in an effort to get the track to convey in a believable manner. It might not be your cup of tea in so much as the song or my playing but I'm after advice on how to improve realism and presence if the consensus is that I'm a way off of it yet.
Yes, the vocal is meant to be laid back. Ray, if you read this I re did the bass, but I'm not convinced in this mix that the right hand guitar track is causing any issue. I tinkered with the harmonica and hope it's at an acceptable level, I also treated it a little as you suggested. I'm not sure if the track is a keeper or not but it's the overall feel that I want to get right for future recordings.
Many thanks

Tim
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're trying for as to believable.
If you mean more like live I'd suggest stereo mic'g the guitars. As they are they sound too studio since they are so isolated, whereas the harmonica soars in a much more believable way, maybe because of the panned location and the reverb. I just really like stereo mic'd acoustic guitars.
The constant guitar picking in the right gets a bit wearing. some judicious fills might be more believable. percussion could use some more verb. I believe it.
 
I like it, love the nice chilled out, stripped back feel.

As a big fan of music, but a beginner in the recording world, would say that it is a little left sided - too much going on with not a lot on the right side - maybe fatten up the guitar and centralise the drum?. Also couldn't really hear the bass too much. Saying that, I am listening on a work laptop through Sennheiser CX400II in-ears so probably not the best way to listen.
 
Tim,
Yep, I can hear the changes. Maybe add a 3 or 4 db of boost on the bass at 3k and move it just a little to the right to address the perception of left leaning tendencies?
Your voice is becoming stronger & more comfident - I can hear the lack of enhancement on this trcak.
 
Thanks for all the input, I banished the pop, I re recorded the guitars using a stereo mic set up, re recorded the bass with it cranked up and got the cone shifting, I may have lowered the harmonica too far but I think the balance of the mix is better, but I obviously only have my own ears to make a judgement with.

CPFC1985, Thank you, I am going to do a series of tracks like this, new drums and other hand held percussion is on its way. There is definitely bass now.

Manslick, I stereo mic's the guitars, it sounds more present to my ear, not sure if positioned the mics as well as I might but the effect is more dimensional than before, where they seemed like a curtain hung on each side. I increased the verb a little more on the percussion.

Ray, the bass is present, I did a little less with the r/h guitar and I thank you for your thoughts about my more recent vocal work, I am getting there slowly. I just need a track where I can get more out of it and get the tar moving.

fat_fleet, it should be more central now, I have hopefully got it balanced better.

As always, nothing is fixed in stone, so perfectly happy to work with any additional thoughts which may arise?

many thanks

Tim


 
Phrasemaker said:
Thanks for listening and replying, I appreciate you taking time to do so. The harmonica sound is a harmonica and I'm not saying that in a sarcastic way, it's just with modern technology and all, I guess it could be done with some fancy hard or software. I have a fair bit of reverb on it, but other than that it's played straight, into a large diaphragm mic at a distance of around 18 inches. The remainder of the track comprises of single instrument and vocal takes using the same mic for everything apart from the vocal where on this version I switched to a dynamic mic because at the time I wanted to do the vocal, there was a danger that some other noise might contaminate it if I used the large diaphragm which pretty much sucks in everything bar the furniture. Mix wise, I panned everything to different positions in the stereo field, applied a little EQ until everything seemed to gel as a whole. The entire mix was then subjected to a very light amount of compression. I have noted your thoughts about the guitars and bass, I'll make some tweaks to the guitars by way of EQ and see how the bass responds to similar treatment. I used a larger bass cab on this version, so maybe I didn't drive it hard enough, in which case I'll do another take using the smaller cab again which will allow me to crank it without setting off car alarms in the street outside. I have a feeling I'm going to explore this more organic kind of sound with a few more tracks, now I know I can get some reasonable takes using microphones.

Many thanks

Tim
Click to expand...

Yeah, I knew it was a harmonica, I was wondering about the recording and mixing techniques you used. You covered most of it, but could you tell me what reverb you used and some of the settings? Thanks!
 
I mainly used the reverb on my R24 to maintain the ability to control it post recording, the vocal had it applied through the Alesis mixer I was using, I had it at around 20% of its total availability using the large room setting. Everything else applied on the Zoom, 60% for the harmonica, 35 for the guitars, 25 for the drums, 30 for the tambourine, 10 on the bass which is more present in the later mix, I've just mixed it again and will add it to this thread shortly. The guitars have been re done, using two mic's set a little wider than ears, but not so far as to make it contrived. I used Art M1 large diaphragm condensers for the instruments, a Sennhieser e 935 dynamic for the vocals.
A small amount of compression was applied post mix on the current version.

All the best

Tim
 
I've just listened to the latest mix.
Sounds like it's sorted.
Your voice sits well in the mix and you've done quite a bit of learning on this project so congratulations.
 
Listened to the latest mix, much easier on the ears! Really do like the track. For some reason, makes me think of Liam Gallagher, 1996/7 if he chilled out a bit and got a bit folky. In my defence, first day back at work so brain not fully functioning :)
 
Thanks Ray, yes a fantastic learning curve on this one, I really enjoyed the acoustic approach and think maybe it's a good place to work for a while to get the basics honed a little more. I have just bought some more hand percussion and will attempt to learn to play some additional acoustic instruments to add some interesting sounds to my tracks. My daughter has just started with a cornet so maybe I'll get her on board once she has it sorted. Thanks again for your insight and encouragement.

CPFC1985, thanks for listening and your feedback, I don't mind that comparison at all. I'm going to have a crack something similar to this but push the boat out a little further hopefully. Thank you.

all the best

Tim
 
Hey Tim. Not heard one of yours for a while (it's not you, it's me). Wow, you've made some progress since then! This is great. The first version, I had to switch from headphones to listen because of the left guitar, but this has been fixed nicely in the second version. Love this song, sounds great to me. Is the drum a little too upfront?
 
This is very cool, has a laid backwoodsy kinda feel. The drum is the only thing buggin me it seemed too dry to be with all the other nicely verbed instruments. Was the drum a sample? It felt like all the hits were the same velocity to me...I found that distracting after a while.
 
Jonny, thanks for listening and your thoughts, I will re visit the drums and have a more refined tweak as whole and get this posted up when done.

alkie, the drum tracks were recorded in my studio using a Djembe, there are two drum tracks where the tambourine kicks in onward. I'll have to try varying my consistency as the entire drum part is the two takes with no looping. I'm not a percussionist and to be honest I was blessed that my original minutes of acoustic guitar which is no longer in the track was somewhere near to being in time, as the drums came after, as the guitar take was just an experiment with a mic set up to see how it sounded. I actually had not intended doing this track, a happy accident I guess. I'll get another version up in the coming days.

Many thanks

Tim
 
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