R
Rod Gervais
New member
frederic said:The same reason why guys with "1200 streetable HP in their Accord" won't race my worn out 327K mile F350 crewcab.
LMFAO ........................
frederic said:The same reason why guys with "1200 streetable HP in their Accord" won't race my worn out 327K mile F350 crewcab.
Rod Gervais said:LMFAO ........................
d(-_-)b-Phones said:It is the same. I have seen held and used both.
Rod Gervais said:Well that's the problem with "unscientific perception"(s) - they don't have any place in conversation where people are trying to gain facts. By the way - just for the record, your 10-30% obsevations aren't anywhere near reality.
What you told me (exactly) was:
So you now equate your concept of "some usefullness" as being "a major part of soundproofing"?
Sorry sir - you don't have a clue - you would be better suited perhaps to read some of the vast wealth of knowledge on the subject before you begin giving out advice - or correcting those who actually make their livings in the field. You know a lot (a whole lot) less of the physics involved than you seem to think.
Sincerely,
Rod
KevinDrummer said:Why don't you just be clear and provide the raw empirical scientific data on how much or little foam reduces the amplitude of sound at several frequencies - and not a simple rehashing of your same "it takes mass" stuff?
Innovations said:Sure if somebody thought of testing walls with foam (which I would be willing to guess they did) and it made a difference (which I think it would not) we would be seeing those test results somewhere.
KevinDrummer said:You know this has really got quite rediculous, and you seem intent on knocking me down.
And by the way, I do make a living doing this (among other things) in my job as a facilities manager. I have designed and constructed several spaces that are isolated to varying degrees, all of which have proven quite effective. Its actually quite fun to do when you have "deep pockets".
Rod Gervais said:Nope - not bent on knocking you down at all - just the myths and fairy tales that folks like you try to spread as reality..........
Note that I also went after those claiming (again and again) that Auralex and FBM foams are "exactly the same"......... So I am not focused on you.
I have designed and constructed world class movie (only 15,000 sf though)and recording studios - and am presently the chief engineer on a 3/4 billion dollar project - working directly for the developer.
I am a speaker for AISC at conventions on the value of Staggered Truss systems and frequently a judge for their engineering contests.
I am a code expert, a multi-discipline engineer and a moderator of an acoustic forum at another BBS.
I will give you the best advice I possibly can sir....... and that is to perhaps study this some more - because if you are giving advice at your job that in any way resembles what you have been saying here - one of these days a real acoustician may come around and your company will find out how little you really know - and that might not be a good thing.
SIncerely,
Rod
KevinDrummer said:You keep attributing a position to me that I haven't taken.
KevinDrummer said:B) wrong - if you don't think absorbtion is (or can be) a major part of soundproofing. I know the physics.
I know that slapping some wedgie foam on a wall isn't the "correct" way to make a soundproof room, but you know what? It sure does help.
My main point in this thread is that interior treatment can effect transmission to the exterior.
Will you say that application of foam to the interior of a space has NO effect on the amplitude in the adjoining space?
Rod Gervais said:I most certaintly have not - you have stated - I quoted this - and now I quote again:
That was your position - taken early on in this discussion - and you were (quite frankly) wrong. Once again - the fact that you were wrong is again proven by the fact that NO assemblies exist which include these products as a part of a rated isolating wall assembly. It sure doesn't "help"
This I will agree to - but it isn't the way you think.
Nope - it might have a small effect one way or the other - oh yes - it can slightly increase or DECREASE a walls effective value when you apply a material to it's surface.
No way to tell exactly unless you field test after construction what influence and what frequencies might have been effected due to this.
This is true for foam as well as for bass/mid and high frequency traps that are installed directly in contact with a walls surface.......... they can (and will) effect the center frequency of the panel they are attached to - and thus might increase (or decrease) it's efficiency slightly - but even the possible decreases are slight enough in nature that we don't concern ourselve with them when treating a room. that because we have already designed enough isolation into the system to arive at the finished product we desire.
I cannot (for the life of me) understand why you went from "a major part of soundproofing" to "can have some usefulness" and yet you won't admit that your initial advice wasn't on target.
On some occassions I will have a "brain fart" - and on those occassions where I do I come back immeadiately and let everone know I screwed up - I do not understand people who (when proven to be mistaken) can't "man up" and let it go.
Rod
KevinDrummer said:In a small room without any special isolation construction, heavy application of interior "softies" including foam has, in my experience, contributed to less sound in the next room.
JohnnyMalaria said:Does a marketed product exist that uses a vacuum as the soundproofing medium (or lack of)? Vacuum Insulation Panels (VIPs) exist - example here and here. Additional info, including evacuated concrete panels, here
(BTW - the word used at length in this thread is absorption, not absorbtion).
Rod Gervais said:Phones, Gvarko,
You both actually did comparative meaurements of both products? Density? Absorbtion? Chemical Properties? What lab did you do the acoustic tests at? That amazes me - but it also gives me a chance to see if I can verify info I have been given by others.
gvarko said:My test is hang it on the wall, record and if it sounds better - Hooray!!!