Acoustic/sound proofing foam

  • Thread starter Thread starter rockishell
  • Start date Start date
Fire Dome said:
Do they ship internationally. I was checking out their prices and they are dirt cheap!! I don't know how they do it.
Click to expand...

They do it by not using the same products - with the same densities as the acoustic foams........

In other words - you get what you pay for............

I have watched posts from people who have boaught their foam - and some of them threw it away once they found out how it really worked (or didn't work as the case may be).

Remember - inexpensive is determined by what you require in relation to it's cost....... if you need serious treatment - and this doesn't get the job done - it's a lot more expensive then buying the right material the first time around.


Rod
 
The very fact that they are calling their product soundproofing foam is suspicious. Foam is not soundproofing. It might accurately be described as sound treatment but not sound proofing. An amateur might not make that distinction but a firm that understood its product would. So this firm is either clueless about its product application or sloppy enough to allow it to be inaccurately described. Do either of those make you feel comfortable buying from them?

Anybody can buy bulk foam and slice it into a zigzag pattern.

For only a few pennies more than this you can find a local source of Owens Corning 703 or equivalent and make your own fabric-covered panels that will look better and perform better.
 
So this firm is either clueless about its product application or sloppy enough to allow it to be inaccurately described
Click to expand...
I hardly believe that. Personally, I think it boils down to plain ole snake oil :rolleyes: How many people do you think buy it BECAUSE it is advertized as SOUND PROOFING? They know EXACTLY what they are doing. So do I.
fitZ
 
fitZ2 said:
How many people do you think buy it BECAUSE it is advertized as SOUND PROOFING? They know EXACTLY what they are doing. So do I.
fitZ
Click to expand...
Considering the number of newbies that show up here asking about putting some foam on the walls so that they neighbors won't complain about their band practicing I would say quite a few.
 
Rod Gervais said:
Awww........ you had to go and do it................ I really wish you hadn't.

Sorry sir......... but you are very misinformed.

Foam does not help with soundproofing....... in fact - you can't find a single tested sound isolation wall / floor / ceiling design that uses foam product as a part of the assembly.

Foam is a product used to assist in tuning a room after isolation is completed - but it has none of the qualities needed for sound isolation - which (by the way) are (in order of importance) mass mass and more MASS.



Sorry, you really should be more carefull how you present yourself......... when you are going to do it badly you should not be in the process of explaining to someone else how little they really know.

1st - Foam is not a soundproofing "technique" - it isn't even a soundproofing product.

2nd - Of course people are looking to totally soundproof a room - the fact that it is virtually impossible doesn't change that (ultimately).



Nope - he's just like you or anyone else here......... I only know what he says......... I do not have one damned clue what he means - which is why i went out of my way to ask him........

You see - soome people are just like you - they believe in fairy tales - magic beans and dragons....... sheesh - they even believe that foam is an isolation product (I know - whoda thunk) - so when they present me with multicolored pictures - I try to ask them questions to see what they really mean.



Now - see that - you can do it......... you actually made an intelligent statement - I'm proud of you - I knew deep down that you could do it eventually......... although "good" and "inexpensive" are probably mutually exclusive terms when it comes to these products.

Sincerely,

Rod
Click to expand...

[ ]Your Not An Idiot.
[X]Your An Idiot.
 
You are one crack...

Rod Gervais said:
They do it by not using the same products - with the same densities as the acoustic foams........
Click to expand...

I just got some from foambymail last week and I am telling you that it is exactly the same as Auralex without a doubt..
 
gvarko said:
I just got some from foambymail last week and I am telling you that it is exactly the same as Auralex without a doubt..
Click to expand...

Take a scrap of auralex, and a scrap of foam by mail, and light the edges of each with a lighter.

The auralex will smoke, but when you pull the lighter away, it will go out.
The foam by mail, if its the same stuff I have here in the attic, it won't. They might have changed it since a year ago when I purchased this, but that was the reason why I chose not to use it.
 
d(-_-)b-Phones said:
It is the same. I have seen held and used both.
Click to expand...

gvarko said:
I just got some from foambymail last week and I am telling you that it is exactly the same as Auralex without a doubt...
Click to expand...

Phones, Gvarko,

You both actually did comparative meaurements of both products? Density? Absorbtion? Chemical Properties? What lab did you do the acoustic tests at? That amazes me - but it also gives me a chance to see if I can verify info I have been given by others.

Or do you mean that you couldn't tell any differences by ear - or tell small differences in density by just holding a piece of each?

My understanding of their material was that it was 2psf density - and the Auralex products are not.........

Could you please confirm the exact density for me? And let me know the name of the lab I can buy the test reports from.

I would appreaciate having the information - seeing as they will not publish it - nor will they publish any data regarding their testing of it's properties.

If in fact - you have just felt it - held it - and heard a room that had both in it - I can tell you for a fact that none of that proves they're the same material.

As a matter of fact - without a complete chemical analaysis to prove they're exactly the same - you couldn't tell the difference between a lot of materials that exist in the world - side by side - they can look exact - and still have totally different chemical properties - different strengths and weaknesses -

It takes test data to convince me - and they don't release it (assuming they have even bothered to have it tested).

People sometimes get upset with me for being a jerk - but it's unscientific claims like the above that just drive me crazy.

Rod
 
So scientific yet you like music? strange. I guess you also like solid state amps, active pickups and poly neck guitars... man its the same. I have seen them both, if you want to break out a chemistry lab and break the 2 down and see if they both turn sulfate blue... well thats you, better price same quality, end of story.
 
d(-_-)b-Phones said:
So scientific yet you like music? strange. I guess you also like solid state amps, active pickups and poly neck guitars... man its the same. I have seen them both, if you want to break out a chemistry lab and break the 2 down and see if they both turn sulfate blue... well thats you, better price same quality, end of story.
Click to expand...


Whaaaattt ???? :confused:

No freaking way it's the same quality. Absolutly positively no way. Have you read some of the claims of foambymail's NRC ratings ? Absolute 100% bullshit.

I won't pretend to understand everything about acoustics, but having recently purchased a room kit from primacoustics I can say that there is a huge difference between it and the cheap $40 sheet of foam I used to have on some walls in my old room.

I would have prefered to do the DIY route with OC 703, but could not find one supplier in Ottawa that even knew what the hell it was. And this was after getting their numbers directly from the 1-800 OC number.
 
d(-_-)b-Phones said:
So scientific yet you like music? strange. I guess you also like solid state amps, active pickups and poly neck guitars... man its the same. I have seen them both, if you want to break out a chemistry lab and break the 2 down and see if they both turn sulfate blue... well thats you, better price same quality, end of story.
Click to expand...

Actually I love music......... not strange therefor that I'm an engineer - we get to work with the creative side of our brain all day long.

It is strange (however) that a musician wouldn't realize the difference - hell - i guess with you it's a fender - even if it's a knock-off - after all - they both look the same - they both feel the same - hell they even have the same name.

Sorry - the fact that you believe something to be true doen't make it so. I have nothing personally against their foam - however I will not tell anyone that it's the same as other more expensive products - not without any evidence to the contrary.

I have been informed that it is 2pcf density - but I have since verified that I was informed wrong - it is actually 1.50 - 1.70 lb/ft3 density and it's a Open-Cell/ Urathane-Ether Foam.

You can see it here:

http://www.foambymail.com/FoamSpecs.html

Auralex foam on the other hand (this data from the 4" Wedgies) is formulated of flame-retardant, high density (1.5-1.7# as poured; commonly referred to as 2.0# as sold) open cell polyurethane foam rubber.

You can see the test report here:

http://www.auralex.com/testdata/test/4wedge.pdf

OK - the densities seems close - but the materials are NOT THE SAME.

So much for the "I held them and saw them and used them and they're identical" claims. (Nope Urathane-Ether and Polyurethane are not the same except for the fact that they both happen to be open cell).

And thus - seeing as they are not identical materials - they will NOT have identical reactions to sound.

SO now - I would love for one of you gents who claim for them to be exactly the same - to tell us how this can be -

Oh no - I already know - they're the same because you can't hear or feel or see any difference between them - and thus - just because you say so......

And I (of course) am a jerk for even thinking to question you based on something as stupid as the facts..........

Really - to be completely honest - if it wern't for the fact that some innocent person might be fooled into thinking that you actually have a clue as to what you're saying - and end up throwing away their money without being truly informed - I would not even waste my time in these sorts of things with you.

It would be enough for me to lay back and laugh as you explain to everyone how the earth is the center of the universe and the earth is flat..... after all - as long as you belive something to be true - it is...........

Sincerely,

Rod
 
Back to the foam as soundproofing wars:

In 1977 I covered every surface of my basement studio with egg cartons. Imbued with the confidence that no one could ever know I was blaring bad progressive rock, I blared. My little sister whose bedroom was just above the studio, traded her flute for a trombone, as the only reasonable retaliation for the unabated chacophany from below.

egg-carton nonsense aside, absorption probably has some infinitesimal affect in reducing sound transmission (and that is only at the high-frequencies, which are never the problem freqs in neighbor offending), but only in an academic sense.

Kevin, I'm afraid you need to eat crow on this one, buddy. Rod is correct that mass and isolation are the keys to sound proofing, not absorption. I know this anecdotally from many attempts as a failed practitioner. My current studio is constructed of sand-filled cinder blocks with a stucco finish. It is a standalone building, some 50 feet from the main house and 100 from the neighbors. It's mass and physical isolation from these other structures underly its relatively good soundproofing. The OC703 and bass traps that i have employed on the walls do a great job of controlling the sound within, but nothing for soundproofing.

Read the F. Alton Everest books if you want to learn about the physics.

A little bit of ketchup helps the crow go down easier...
 
Todzilla said:
Back to the foam as soundproofing wars:

In 1977 I covered every surface of my basement studio with egg cartons. Imbued with the confidence that no one could ever know I was blaring bad progressive rock, I blared. My little sister whose bedroom was just above the studio, traded her flute for a trombone, as the only reasonable retaliation for the unabated chacophany from below.

egg-carton nonsense aside, absorption probably has some infinitesimal affect in reducing sound transmission (and that is only at the high-frequencies, which are never the problem freqs in neighbor offending), but only in an academic sense.

Kevin, I'm afraid you need to eat crow on this one, buddy. Rod is correct that mass and isolation are the keys to sound proofing, not absorption. I know this anecdotally from many attempts as a failed practitioner. My current studio is constructed of sand-filled cinder blocks with a stucco finish. It is a standalone building, some 50 feet from the main house and 100 from the neighbors. It's mass and physical isolation from these other structures underly its relatively good soundproofing. The OC703 and bass traps that i have employed on the walls do a great job of controlling the sound within, but nothing for soundproofing.

Read the F. Alton Everest books if you want to learn about the physics.

A little bit of ketchup helps the crow go down easier...
Click to expand...

Like I said, I know the basic physics. I never said absorbtion was the "key", and I know that it isn't, so I'll just leave the crow on the plate - thanks.

There's a big gap between being the "key" and being "infinitesimal". MY anecdotal experience and unscientific perception is that a heavy dose of blankets, foam, whatever you can get your hands on, probably contributes to maybe 10-30% in HF reduction in the next room, sliding downward in effectiveness as the frequency lowers. Yes, the person in the next room is going to always hear that annoying LF rumble unless the room is properly soundproofed, but they just *might* be able to hear the evening news guy on TV.

I think I made all this clear in my posts, that the products can have some usefulness in the *proofing* arena when a casual hobbyist doesn't want to put big bucks into a room rebuild.
 
Whatever you say, Kev, but you know it's never the high freqs that bug the viewer in the next room. It's the thumpin's.

Please don't move in next door to me until I'm finally deaf. (estimated time to deafness, 3.5 years)
 
Todzilla said:
Whatever you say, Kev, but you know it's never the high freqs that bug the viewer in the next room. It's the thumpin's.

Please don't move in next door to me until I'm finally deaf. (estimated time to deafness, 3.5 years)
Click to expand...


True, true.

I now humbly resolve to *never* enter this thread again. :)
 
KevinDrummer said:
MY anecdotal experience and unscientific perception is that a heavy dose of blankets, foam, whatever you can get your hands on, probably contributes to maybe 10-30% in HF reduction in the next room, sliding downward in effectiveness as the frequency lowers. Yes, the person in the next room is going to always hear that annoying LF rumble unless the room is properly soundproofed, but they just *might* be able to hear the evening news guy on TV.
Click to expand...

Well that's the problem with "unscientific perception"(s) - they don't have any place in conversation where people are trying to gain facts. By the way - just for the record, your 10-30% obsevations aren't anywhere near reality.

I think I made all this clear in my posts, that the products can have some usefulness in the *proofing* arena when a casual hobbyist doesn't want to put big bucks into a room rebuild.
Click to expand...

What you told me (exactly) was:

B) wrong - if you don't think absorbtion is (or can be) a major part of soundproofing. I know the physics.
Click to expand...

So you now equate your concept of "some usefullness" as being "a major part of soundproofing"?

Sorry sir - you don't have a clue - you would be better suited perhaps to read some of the vast wealth of knowledge on the subject before you begin giving out advice - or correcting those who actually make their livings in the field. You know a lot (a whole lot) less of the physics involved than you seem to think.

Sincerely,

Rod
 
By the way......... what in the world happened to those people who were telling us the FBM materials are EXACTLY the same are Auralex foam?

Why aren't they here explaining to us how this phenomenon exists when the material properties are different?

Gentlemen - please - enlighten me - I've been waiting for word from you both since posting the real truth............ when will you enlighten us with your wisdom?

Rod
 
Rod Gervais said:
By the way......... what in the world happened to those people who were telling us the FBM materials are EXACTLY the same are Auralex foam? Rod
Click to expand...

The same reason why guys with "1200 streetable HP in their Accord" won't race my worn out 327K mile F350 crewcab.

:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top