Acoustic Guitar Tracking Sanity Check

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jmcelroy

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Hi all,

Based on one of my previous threads I have experimented with mics, mic placement, some minimal technique changes and a bit of room treatment when recording acoustic guitar in my little home studio. As I mentioned in that thread, I have recorded a little doodling with the guitar in hopes that someone would be willing to read a description of my setup, listen to a sample recording, and suggest changes or simply make comments about what they readhear.

I am using the following setup:

Guild GAD-30r acoustic guitar
Medium plastic $0.25 pick (fat round back end used)
Shure SM81-LC mic 17 inches away pointed just slightly behind the bridge (no attenuation or filtering)
Fatman 2 tube pre-amp, compressor is NOT engaged, nor is the filter

Center of a 12'x12' room with 8' ceiling
Mattress up against the back wall
very small amount of acoustic foam on front wall (just enough to sit behind the monitors)

No processing at all

The little doodle is located here:

www.kingswhenlucid.com/thanksForTheHelp.wav

And, just to be sure that nobody finds me disrespectful, I posted this here instead of in the mp3 clinic forum because it's not really about the recording so much as it is the recording *technique*. Therefore I found this thread more appropriate.

Thanks for any and all help, advice, and commentary!!

--John
 
Fairly mid forward sound which if it's to be mixed with other things, bass and such could be just the ticket. For solo guitar or sparse' I'd head for more sparkle and body. Perhaps near the 12th fret (string shimmer) and balance the placement with the sound hole for the low end.
But these are wild ass guesses as to intent and style. :)
Center of a 12'x12' room with 8' ceiling
Mattress up against the back wall
very small amount of acoustic foam on front wall (just enough to sit behind the monitors)
Click to expand...

How about ‘your back to the mat’ (mic sees the guitar in a deader ‘background) and the room returns are longer reflections, lower in relative level? (A few 2” 2x4’ fiber boards hung above would also help tighten up a ‘mic area.
 
mixsit said:
Fairly mid forward sound which if it's to be mixed with other things, bass and such could be just the ticket. For solo guitar or sparse' I'd head for more sparkle and body. Perhaps near the 12th fret (string shimmer) and balance the placement with the sound hole for the low end.
Click to expand...

OK, thanks! I used to record with a large diaphragm mic (Rode NTK) and it has much more bass presence, but is also kind of nasty-sounding in the mid range (at least in this case). Perhaps I'll try mixing the two.

mixsit said:
But these are wild ass guesses as to intent and style. :)
Click to expand...

Haha. Yes, indeed! I'm pretty diverse, stylistically speaking, so I'm just looking for general feedback, abstracted from style or intent. What you said was great - "I like it OK for style A, but it's lacking B for style C".

mixsit said:
How about ‘your back to the mat’ (mic sees the guitar in a deader ‘background) and the room returns are longer reflections, lower in relative level? (A few 2” 2x4’ fiber boards hung above would also help tighten up a ‘mic area.
Click to expand...

Excellent suggestion. I'm on it. Thanks again.
 
Sounds a little hot to me...like you slammed the strums in a way...it's not really breathing with the chords. Your guitar sounds kind of cheap too. What sort did you say it is? Personally I wouldn't say this recording is much to write home about...the tones...you know they aren't that great really. Keep trying new positions for your mics.
 
Monkey Allen said:
Sounds a little hot to me...like you slammed the strums in a way...it's not really breathing with the chords. Your guitar sounds kind of cheap too. What sort did you say it is? Personally I wouldn't say this recording is much to write home about...the tones...you know they aren't that great really. Keep trying new positions for your mics.
Click to expand...

Ah. Well, I definitely strum loudly. That's something I'm beginning to notice too.

The guitar is an all-wood Guild (GA-30r) that set me back ~$700 and people generally give very high reviews to. My guess is that any tone problems result from a lack of proper technique on my part combined with problems in my tracking methodology. That is to say, I think that in the right hands it would sound like a $700 guitar.

I will definitely keep experimenting. I will also try a more nuanced strumming technique. Thanks for taking the time to listen and respond. I really appreciate it! (That last bit goes to everyone else too.)

Also, with respect to your user name: "Monkey" and "Allen" are both types of wrenches, I believe. Is that where the name comes from?
 
Nah...it's from a TV show...The Office (the British one)
 
jmcelroy said:
Ah. Well, I definitely strum loudly. That's something I'm beginning to notice too.
Click to expand...

In another thread someone was ranting about the first step in the signal chain is NOT the mic, but the placement of the mic. I'll take that rant further and say IMHO when it comes to acoustic guitar (and electric too, but not as much) the strum/pick technique is the first step in the signal chain. If you are cutting the guitar in half, you are not "getting" the "sound" that the guitar can really provide.

OP...I'd love to hear you do the same setup in the room, do the same diddles, but now...have your baby daughter sleeping in the next room...play quietly...let us hear the guitar resonate.
 
Glen...the English original series is just about the perfect show. Haha...so good. I'm pretty surprised that an American likes it better than the US version. Don't often hear that.

I'm their friend as well as their boss!

The reason I put "If it's in you, I'll find it" is, if I waste good time and money looking for it, and see it's definitely not in you, I don't wanna be sued 'cos you haven't got it, so, you know, not gonna get me on that.
 
Hey John,
Listened to your little doodle on my computer with cans and it found I needed to raise the volume quite a bit to hear it well. The problem with that is it introduces alot of noise from my end. It could be from tracking it a bit too hot and also like you mentioned, no processing.

You've done a bit of work on your room and it sounds good so far. You might want to take more advantage of that and track in stereo to create a tighter image. I've had good luck with a stereo matched pair of Rhode NT5's which you might want to give a try and of course keep experimenting on the placement for options. I've had good luck with mixing in an LDC too.

Sounds good to me so far but what's really important when your zeroing on 'that' sound is that it sounds great to you.
 
Monkey Allen said:
Glen...the English original series is just about the perfect show. Haha...so good. I'm pretty surprised that an American likes it better than the US version. Don't often hear that.
Click to expand...
We had the British version here in the states long before the American version, but it was shown on our Public Broadcasting network, which has a much smaller viewership than the big boys like NBC. So for a lot of folks here, the NBC rip-off version seems fresh and original. But for most of us who caught the British version first, the NBC version is a clownish imitation. There's just something about how Gervais plays the character that seems so authentic compared to Carell's cartoon character version. I have worked for Gervais' character in the past myself, whereas if I came across Carell's character, I'd swear off the hallucinogens forever after that.

Can't you just picture Gervais in the MP3 clinic? ;)

G.
 
BenignVanilla said:
In another thread someone was ranting about the first step in the signal chain is NOT the mic, but the placement of the mic. I'll take that rant further and say IMHO when it comes to acoustic guitar (and electric too, but not as much) the strum/pick technique is the first step in the signal chain. If you are cutting the guitar in half, you are not "getting" the "sound" that the guitar can really provide.

OP...I'd love to hear you do the same setup in the room, do the same diddles, but now...have your baby daughter sleeping in the next room...play quietly...let us hear the guitar resonate.
Click to expand...

Sorry it's taken me so long to respond, but I've been swamped for the last week.

I'll definitely strum more quietly next time. I was afraid that it wouldn't sound assertive enough, but thanks to this thread I realize that I was on the wrong track. The pick noise has definitely been bothering me. I'll get another version up soon.

Thanks again!
 
NYMorningstar said:
Hey John,
Listened to your little doodle on my computer with cans and it found I needed to raise the volume quite a bit to hear it well. The problem with that is it introduces alot of noise from my end. It could be from tracking it a bit too hot and also like you mentioned, no processing.

You've done a bit of work on your room and it sounds good so far. You might want to take more advantage of that and track in stereo to create a tighter image. I've had good luck with a stereo matched pair of Rhode NT5's which you might want to give a try and of course keep experimenting on the placement for options. I've had good luck with mixing in an LDC too.

Sounds good to me so far but what's really important when your zeroing on 'that' sound is that it sounds great to you.
Click to expand...

Sorry it's taken me a while to respond - I've been working like crazy lately!

I appreciate the tips. I have a Rode NTK that I was using before I got the Shure so I'll knock out a recording with the two of them. I'll probably put the Rode near the bridge since it sounds best (with the acoustic, at least) in the lower range. I'll put the Shure near the 12th fret. We'll see how that sounds.

Thanks again!
 
Monkey Allen said:
Glen...the English original series is just about the perfect show. Haha...so good. I'm pretty surprised that an American likes it better than the US version. Don't often hear that.

I'm their friend as well as their boss!

The reason I put "If it's in you, I'll find it" is, if I waste good time and money looking for it, and see it's definitely not in you, I don't wanna be sued 'cos you haven't got it, so, you know, not gonna get me on that.
Click to expand...

Monkey Allen's got his own Porsche.

Guilds are pretty good guitars from what I hear.
 
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