Acoustic/Electric into PA

[evhwanabe]

The band that I am in is kinda shifting gears after a line up change and are going to be playing mostly acoustic gigs for some time. We will have 3 guitarists: (2) with acoustic/electrics and (1) with acoustic with a temp pickup mounted in the sound hole, but all have 1/4" outputs

My question:
is it correct to just plug the guitars right into the mixer or should we be using direct boxes? For practice we have been just going straight into the mixer with some success but also alot of feedback (not sure if this is caused by not using direct boxes or just the room). Is my money better spent on something like a Driverack PA (or any other feedback eliminator) or some direct boxes? Or both?

Thanks in advance
B

 

[Fusioninspace]

We use acoustics quite a bit at church - this is along with a full band (drums, keyboards, elect guitar, etc.). In general, the best sound seems to be when the guitar plugs the 1/4" into a DI box and then the XLR comes out of that and into the mixer.

We have some people use "acoustic" amps, but it doesn't translate well through the PA system - What you hear directly from the amp isn't what you get through the PA mains. If the guitarist cooperate and have time, I'm sure that could be fixed - But getting cooperation and time are real challenges.

Micing the amp works better than using the direct outs on the acoustic amps. I think part of the problem with acoustic amps is that most of us are used to hearing the guitar producing it's own sound - not through a speaker. Plus the guitarist is used to having the guitar resonate on their body - again, not through a speaker. So the guitarist tries to set their amp so everything sounds (and feels?) right to them and not to the audience.

Feedback: Just be REAL careful with the monitors. Don't put a lot of guitar in the monitor. They sell these rubber sound hole covers that seem to help in stuborn cases. You can get a feedback eliminator, graphic EQ, parametric EQ, notch filter - any/all of these can certainly make a HUGE diff on feedback once they get dialed in correctly. That might be more of a cost/ease of use dicision more than anything.

Good luck!

 

[Richard Monroe]

Generally, I think the best use of money is to maximize the quality of the guitar's pickup system. I use a Taylor 710CE with a Fishman Prefix stereo blender, and I find that system better for feedback control than most systems. If I'm not bringing an electric, I also pack a Rare Earth magnetic soundhole pickup. That goes to a guitar amp, not the PA, the Fishman goes straight to the PA. For real small gigs, the Rare Earth goes to a VAMP-2, and then to the PA. I find the blender more versatile than any pure piezo/undersaddle system. I've heard great things about the new Triad system, which combines a piezo, a mic, and a magnetic pickup, which is basically what I have thrown together. For some songs I combine the 2 pickup systems, and let the clean acoustic signal cut through a wetter magnetic signal. Good luck- Richie

 

[MesaHead]

i don't think direct boxes change your sound, they are just a splitter for the soundguy to use.

you could go through guitar amps and still get a good sound, and the occassional distortion when needed.
but otherwise go direct. i also find that a good eq for acoustics is to have the bass really low, around 1 or 2, the mid at 3 or 4 and the treble between 5 or 7. reverb really helps with the dry sound, but use it less on the vox to kill the mud.

if your acoustics are feeding back, there are external volume controls for sale that attach between you and the PA($30??), you could also use a volume pedal if you have one lying around. or any distortion pedal with all of the dials at zero would mute the feedback when turned on.

 

[Farview]

i don't think direct boxes change your sound, they are just a splitter for the soundguy to use.

Direct boxes aren't supposed to change your sound but they will. All they do is convert the hi impedance unballanced signal coming out of your guitar into a ballanced low impedance signal ( it also changes line level to mic level)

you could go through guitar amps and still get a good sound, and the occassional distortion when needed.
.

Why would you want a distorted accoustic guitar?!

 

[Imaduck]

Yeah, using distortion with an acoustic is the easiest way to get the most horrible sounding feedback ever. I haven't worked too much with acoustics over PA's, but generally going quarter inch to quarter inch has worked fine for me. Like Richard said, quality pickups are probably the best route to go, and soundhole dampeners work quite well also.

 

[SuperSkyrocket]

is it correct to just plug the guitars right into the mixer or should we be using direct boxes?

If your mixer is up on stage with you or otherwise close by, you can probably plug the guitars into the line inputs. Farview is exactly right about what the DI box does. The reason for it though is to eliminate the noise introduced from a long cable run.

Your feedback problems are simply caused by excessive volume in your monitors and/or mains. It has nothing to do with not having a DI. Simply turn it down and/or locate the feedback frequency in the mixer's eq and cut it back some. Three acoustics are going to compete so leave your volume knobs alone and talk about who's going to play where and at what volume. Use the mixer to adjust volumes.

Some DI's like the Fishman Pro EQ Platinum have notch filters that will discourage feedback. This one also has compression and eq. If you want a good clean inexpensive box, the Behringer Ultra-DI DI100 is a good copy of a much more expensive BSS unit.

If you need to spend money, it would be best spent on a Fishman Pro EQ Platinum.

 

[evhwanabe]

Thanks guys! all good posts.

After thinking about it for awhile I think my money would be better spent on an new pickup/pre-amp system for my acoustic. The guitar is a cheap fender that sounds and plays pretty well unplugged but when plugged in doesn't sound very good at all. I find I have to crank it up just to compete with the other 2 guitars (Ovation and Gibson)

I was checking out the L.R. Baggs dual Source system which I found for $190.00 to replace my stock system and I would just abandon the onboard existing preamp. any of you guys had any experience with this setup? I like it because I don't need to modify my guitar to install it and I can remove it when need be.