A real newbie needs some terms explained.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chewie
  • Start date Start date
Hey Chewie - if inputting mics to the computer is ALL you really need to do, then an inexpensive stereo preamp such as the Audio buddy would be the least expensive.

However, if you want the most bang for the buck, then a small inexpensive (but decent quality) mixer makes the most sense. For a few hundred $, you get several channels of preamp, some more channels of line level input, an efx buss to hook up a reverb processor, a monitor buss to be able to monitor in real time so latency isn't a problem, a pair of volume controls for the monitor speakers, metering for all the above, a headphone amplifier of sorts, and probably a dozen other features I forgot to mention.

Granted the quality of preamps in such a board usually isn't quite as good as a standalone preamp, but just having EVERYTHING pretty much covered takes off a lot of pressure and lets you save for upgrades, like better preamps, mics, phones, monitors, etc, while still being able to record, mix, etc.... Steve
 
Ok, knightfly. But if I use a mixer I don't think I'll be able to get each channel into the computer separately. I don't think so at all but maybe there is something I'm missing. Please fill a guy in.
 
Either with or without a mixer, you can only record as many separate, simultaneous tracks as you have separate soundcard inputs. Sooo, to record 8 separate simultaneous tracks you would need at least an 8 channel sound card.

There are 1 or 2 8 channel cards that have built-in mic preamps, but the choice is pretty narrow.

If you use a mixer that has at least 8 discrete channels, each with either an insert point or a direct out or both, you can use the preamps in the mixer, take the line level outputs from (usually) the tip of a TRS connector (plugged into the individual insert points of the mixer) into ANY line level, 8 channel sound card, and record up to 8 tracks of separate sound at one time. this method usually requires that you have enough headphones and ways to power them for each musician. ($$$)

Another, cheaper way - use a 2-channel sound card and overdub all tracks 1 or 2 at a time. The final stereo mix only needs two channels of output. This method requires that the musicians use headphones (but not as many pairs) to listen to previous tracks (usually including a click track) and can't play as a band unless they want the entire mix recorded as just two stereo tracks.

One way this last method works pretty well (sometimes) is to have the band play the song live as a band, using that take as a scratch track and click track. Then each member redoes his/her part separately while listening to the scratch track, until the scratch track is no longer needed for reference. These recordings are much easier to isolate the individual sounds, so you have more control over the mix later, without bleed from other tracks causing problems.

Any decent mixer will have enough insert points to accomodate the 8 track method. This also allows more choice in sound cards, since the sound card no longer has to have built in preamps. It's probably a toss-up as to the sound quality of built-in pres, either the ones in a mixer or the ones in a sound card. I'd bet the ones in a decent mixer would come out slightly better, but have no personal proof of that...

One way to better understand what's going on here, is go to the mackie site, follow the links to their 1402 VLZ, and download the .pdf file that is the actual owner manual for that mixer. Go to the page with block diagrams, and follow the signal path a few times. That should help explain what's going where, and probably a little about why a mixer makes a lot of sense for a personal studio... Steve
 
Hi, guys!

Let me suggest an alternative approach to this problem. I have a Fostex VF16 standalone recorder connected to computer /w RME Digi986 PST soundcard via Adat lightpipe. Thanks to the adat i/o on both the recorder and the soundcard I can use the recorder as a analog front end and record eight tracks of audio from sources connected to analog inputs of the recorder straight into cubase while simultaneously monitoring 4 stereo outputs of Cubase. BTW this works great. With a minimum of equipment, just the computer, a sound card /w adat io and the recorder you can have a very mobile yet powerful recording studio for recording at home or on the road. It shouldn't be too hard to find a second hand VF16 for $500 or so and another $100 for adat only soundcard.
 
Hmm, PeteHalo. Sounds good. But you can see the name of this thread. So what's a Fostex VF16 standalone recorder and adat?

Knightfly the method you spoke of with the 2 channel sound card is what I do but I can never line up the tracks correctly. What does scratch track and click track mean? I guess the scratch track is the live track but what is the click track?
 
Here's the link to VF-160 on Fostex site: http://www.fostex.com/Products/vf160.html

The VF-16 is the previous model which is virtually the same machine as VF-160 except there's no option for internal CD burner. IMHO if you can find a cheap second hand VF-16 there's no point in spending hundreds of $$$ more for a VF-160. It's an easy operation to update the firmware of even the oldest VF-16 to the latest version that you can download form the web for free which gives you all the features of the VF160 except for the CDRW, of course.

ADAT is a standard for delivering 8 channels of audio on single optical cable. It uses the same cable and connectors that S/PDIF and on some machines user can set the optical output and input to use either ADATA or S/PDIF format depending on the machine at the other end. It should be fairly obvious that in the long run it will be much more convinient to transfer 8 channels at a time than to make 4 passes to transfer same amount of data when transferring 2 tracks at the time thru S/PDIF.
 
This sounds real cool. If only I had that kinda cash. But I have two questions. The site does kinda say them but I NEED to make sure.

1.) You can use to recorder sepate from the PC? (I think so but I must make sure)

2.) When playing back onto the PC can each track be isolated to be edited separately?
 
1) Yes
2) Yes, if you transfer the tracks one by one...

But if you're planning to use your computer mix, why don't record to it in the first place? Get a multi In/Out soundcard, and record away!

Expamples of multi I/O-cards are: Delta 44/66/1010, Audiotrak Inca88, Echo Darla, MoTu has some nice cards, and many others...

And of course, you need propper software such as Steinberg Cubase SX / 5.1, Steinberg Nuendo, Cakewalk Sonar, Calkewalk HomeStudio 2002, Cool Edit Pro 2, Emagic Logic Audio (mac), Digital performer (mac)...
 
Chewie, Scratch track is a reference to listen to, that (usually, not always) gets ultimately thrown away once the song is overdubbed track by track and mixed to satisfaction.

Click track is another reference, either a metronome (click, click, click, click) with (typically ) one click per quarter note, or a drum loop with a feel close to the desired finished product.

It takes practice, but the idea is to be able to anticipate when the beats are going to happen, and play along in sync with them as you record new tracks.

If you're having trouble lining up tracks, maybe you're not setting your sound card and software up right. You should be able to listen to previously recorded tracks while recording to new tracks. Some cheap sound cards can't do this. Your sound card needs to be what they call "full duplex", meaning that it can play two tracks while recording two different (new) tracks. Some cheaper sound cards can only do this in MONO, since they have only two channels of amplification which can be either play or record in STEREO, or "play while record" but only in MONO.

If your card claims to be "full duplex", then you need to check in the Record Dialog Box in your software for a check box labeled something like "Monitor while recording", or similar. that should let you hear what's already recorded while you record a new track.

Without a mixer, the connections would be soundcard outputs to either phones or speakers, soundcard inputs from sound source to be recorded... Steve
 
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