A little direction...regarding mics/pres

[Dulock Mangrove]

Hey, nother newb here. Been round this board for a while, but never posted much. Anyways, here's my questions. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. This is pretty in depth, so thank yuou for taking the time to read it.

My situation: I do the one man band thing (hodgepodge of styles, mostly freeform in nature though. Will be doing film score in the future as well). Drummer by training, but enjoy playing all instruments. I record on a Fostex VF-160ex with guitar/bass run though amplitube (no amps). Going to purchasing a pair of SP C4's (OH) a D112 (BD) and a SP C3 (for recording everything else, acoustic guitar, occasional vocals and general experimentation). This after a few other things this leave me a budget between $500 and $800. Now the questions begin.

With these mics am I going to see a significant improvement in sound by adding preamps? Looking at pair of DMP3s or maybe a Maudio Octane. Don't really know how the pres in the Fostex compare to these. Only other pre I have is a SP VTB1 which I use to DI my guitars into Amplitube.

Or would my dollars be better spent on monitors at this point. All things considered, I know that I need to take the step, but I am ok with holding off on the monitors for a time. I do decent mixes on my Cerwin Vega home loudspeakers (I know it's not ideal, but I am pretty familiar with the coloring these speakers add. I've been listening to them for about 10 years now on a daily basis. Plus I really just make music for my own enjoyment.

I hope this all makes sense. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome. Maybe I'm headed in the wrong direction totally. Thanks again for you time.

 

[jkokura]

If you have no monitors at the moment than monitors are the first priority. Don't do mixing on headphones. A big no no. If you've been using your home stereo that's a problem too...they're not flat like studio monitors.

I use Event TR6's. I LOVE Them. Lots of power, lots of response, and my mixes are a million times better than they used to be with a home stereo set of speakers. Check out these and the 20-20 BAS if you want. Under 8" are usually called nearfield and are placed 3-6 feet from your ears. Usually, 8" and up speakers are placed farther away.

However, if you have any monitoring at all, get some new pres. I would say that even with your new monitors pick up a DMP3. great for overheads, and you already have the VTB-1 to use for your kick...what are you doing for snare?

Jacob

 

[Dulock Mangrove]

Hey thanks for the comments. I have a sm57 to use on snare, though I find most of the time, between my free floater, and a stave shell snare (both of which are pretty load and cutting) I don't really need a snare mic. Probably put it there and record it anyways. Always better to have it than not, right. I was thinking of going that route (monitors/DMP3). The only real draw for me with the Octane is the ADAT. Just a single optical cable, less chance of interference. But I also will never use 8 mic pres at once, so it seems like overkill. Time to start researching monitors I guess. Any other opinions?

 

[soundchaser59]

Another opinion.....

With your current setup, and given what you are doing for your own enjoyment, I think you will notice the greatest amount of enjoyment and improvement from getting the monitors.

Mainly because I also have been mixing on Imperial Star Destroyers (Cerwin Vega RE30's) and every time I take a mix out of the house to play it for someone else, I'm reminded why I should be investing in good monitors. So I sold my CV's and am saving for Event SP8's.

You will hear a huge difference with decent monitors, compared to the small degree of difference you will hear with different preamps in your price range. But more importantly, real monitors will allow everyone else to hear the difference as well. New preamps will go unnoticed by your other "untrained" listeners!

 

[Dulock Mangrove]

I am starting to lean that way. I am wondering. I monitor digitally from computer/Fostex to my Sony receiver (A few years old, when they were still black, near top of the line at that time). If I got a pair of Event 20/20 would the receiver make an exceptable power source? I really want to avoid adding more power sucking appliances, namely two powered monitors. I know I can always buy a power amp on down the road, but will the Sony work for the time being?

 

[teainthesahara]

Hey, nother newb here. Been round this board for a while, but never posted much. Anyways, here's my questions. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. This is pretty in depth, so thank yuou for taking the time to read it.

My situation: I do the one man band thing (hodgepodge of styles, mostly freeform in nature though. Will be doing film score in the future as well). Drummer by training, but enjoy playing all instruments. I record on a Fostex VF-160ex with guitar/bass run though amplitube (no amps). Going to purchasing a pair of SP C4's (OH) a D112 (BD) and a SP C3 (for recording everything else, acoustic guitar, occasional vocals and general experimentation). This after a few other things this leave me a budget between $500 and $800. Now the questions begin.

With these mics am I going to see a significant improvement in sound by adding preamps? Looking at pair of DMP3s or maybe a Maudio Octane. Don't really know how the pres in the Fostex compare to these. Only other pre I have is a SP VTB1 which I use to DI my guitars into Amplitube.

Or would my dollars be better spent on monitors at this point. All things considered, I know that I need to take the step, but I am ok with holding off on the monitors for a time. I do decent mixes on my Cerwin Vega home loudspeakers (I know it's not ideal, but I am pretty familiar with the coloring these speakers add. I've been listening to them for about 10 years now on a daily basis. Plus I really just make music for my own enjoyment.

I hope this all makes sense. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome. Maybe I'm headed in the wrong direction totally. Thanks again for you time.

I actually started out with a fostex VF16, with cerwin vega speakers for monitors as well! You need both the mic pre's and the monitors. Sound quality of different mic pre's aside, you need the mic pre's to hook up all those mics for recording drums with the fostex (which has just 2 phantom powered/XLR inputs). The fostex pre's arent bad, but any of the ones you listed will be better. When i switched to my yorkville monitors, i heard more things and made better mixes. Split your budget between enough pre's to record your drums decently, and a set of monitors!

 

[jkokura]

I am starting to lean that way. I am wondering. I monitor digitally from computer/Fostex to my Sony receiver (A few years old, when they were still black, near top of the line at that time). If I got a pair of Event 20/20 would the receiver make an exceptable power source? I really want to avoid adding more power sucking appliances, namely two powered monitors. I know I can always buy a power amp on down the road, but will the Sony work for the time being?

Actually, a lot of studio speakers these days (like those Event's) are biamplified, or powered. You don't need an amp, they have them built it, with a crossover as well! If you don't want that, than get non powered speakers. However, the Sony amp probably will use the same amount of power, and it will make your sound not the best it could be...

Jacob

 

[mrface2112]

Actually, a lot of studio speakers these days (like those Event's) are biamplified, or powered.

actually, the event 20/20 monitors are passive. it's the 20/20BAS that are active, and FWIW, the BAS have a bit of a different sound than the passive 20/20's (IMO). the BAS are also considerably more expensive than their passive counterparts.

anyway, i'd recommend against using the sony receiver as an amp--the amp in those things are colored as well, and no matter what passive monitors you try through it, you'll be having to hear through its haze. and then you'll be cussing the monitors for mixes that don't translate well.

unless you want to add $150-200 for a Hafler 1600 or something similar to power a set of passive monitors, I would recommend getting a pair of powered (active) monitors. go to your nearest "banjo mart" and bring a couple cds you're intimately familiar with and see which monitors you like best. take a couple sets home and try em out and return the ones that you don't want to keep. credit cards and return policies are wonderful things.

beyond that, yes, you'll need more preamps. the dmp3's are just fine, as would be a couple more VTB1's.....but i would recommend dropping the clams on the Octane. when you start recording drums in more earnest, you'll find yourself wanting to mic everything--a pair of overheads, kick, snare, a pair of room mics, and then the toms--8 inputs only goes so far.

still, there's no way you can accurately tell what you're hearing without a set of monitors.


cheers,
wade

 

[Gilliland]

The consensus seems to be monitors, and that may not be a bad choice. Nonetheless, your home speakers may be good enough to let you get good results, especially if you're particularly familiar with them. I don't know those particular speakers, but assuming that they're not just cheap bookshelf speakers, it is quite possible that they will be BETTER than any monitors that can be purchased for your $500 to $800 remaining cash. Good monitors tend to cost more than that.

Still, monitors may be a good investment. You really need to have multiple listening environments to do justice to a mix. So a pair of monitors in addition to your current setup may be a good choice. You may want to save up a bit more money to get some that are really worth having.

The other choice (and it is also a good one) is to just sit on that money until you've had time to work with and get familiar with the new stuff that you've already purchased. Sometimes you have to live with your current set of gear for a while before you are able to determine what is the next point of improvement.

I would definitely vote against spending money on mic pres until you become familiar with your new mics through the pres that you already own.

 

[Dulock Mangrove]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I am thinking of going this route:

Trading the D112 for a RE20 (More versitile mic.) Skipping the preamps and getting Event TR6's. I have been so torn on the preamps that I am feeling like it is not meant to be at this time. With the Fostex I have 8 pres, though only two with phantom power.

I noticed a huge difference in sound switching from a Beri mixer to the Fostex, and I don't really anticipate hearing that vast of a change from anything under $500 a channel. The mics alone will probably take me a few months just to get used to. I've been using $50 Nady SDC as overheads, and a Cad cheapy on Bass.

I definitely feel like I am missing something trying to mix on my C. Vegas though. There full size tower speakers, really nice even soundstage, but a little muddy methinks.

I'm sure I'll change my mind a million times before I actually drop the cash, but all your comments have been a great help. Thanks guys.

 

[teainthesahara]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I am thinking of going this route:

Trading the D112 for a RE20 (More versitile mic.) Skipping the preamps and getting Event TR6's. I have been so torn on the preamps that I am feeling like it is not meant to be at this time. With the Fostex I have 8 pres, though only two with phantom power.

I noticed a huge difference in sound switching from a Beri mixer to the Fostex, and I don't really anticipate hearing that vast of a change from anything under $500 a channel. The mics alone will probably take me a few months just to get used to. I've been using $50 Nady SDC as overheads, and a Cad cheapy on Bass.

I definitely feel like I am missing something trying to mix on my C. Vegas though. There full size tower speakers, really nice even soundstage, but a little muddy methinks.

I'm sure I'll change my mind a million times before I actually drop the cash, but all your comments have been a great help. Thanks guys.

Threre's nothing wrong with the fostex preamp, so don't sweat that one. If you end up needing more channels with phantom power, use your VTB-1.
Your mixes will greatly benifit from the use of a parametric eq when mixing soley with the fostex!!! The fostex has extremely limited low end eq control. Basic tasks like roll off's, and getting your kick and bass to work will be difficult if working primarily with the fostex. MAny people track with the fostex, and mix in the computer for that reason....

 

[kid klash]

Hey, nother newb here. Been round this board for a while, but never posted much. Anyways, here's my questions. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. This is pretty in depth, so thank yuou for taking the time to read it.

My situation: I do the one man band thing (hodgepodge of styles, mostly freeform in nature though. Will be doing film score in the future as well). Drummer by training, but enjoy playing all instruments. I record on a Fostex VF-160ex with guitar/bass run though amplitube (no amps). Going to purchasing a pair of SP C4's (OH) a D112 (BD) and a SP C3 (for recording everything else, acoustic guitar, occasional vocals and general experimentation). This after a few other things this leave me a budget between $500 and $800. Now the questions begin.

With these mics am I going to see a significant improvement in sound by adding preamps? Looking at pair of DMP3s or maybe a Maudio Octane. Don't really know how the pres in the Fostex compare to these. Only other pre I have is a SP VTB1 which I use to DI my guitars into Amplitube.

Or would my dollars be better spent on monitors at this point. All things considered, I know that I need to take the step, but I am ok with holding off on the monitors for a time. I do decent mixes on my Cerwin Vega home loudspeakers (I know it's not ideal, but I am pretty familiar with the coloring these speakers add. I've been listening to them for about 10 years now on a daily basis. Plus I really just make music for my own enjoyment.

I hope this all makes sense. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome. Maybe I'm headed in the wrong direction totally. Thanks again for you time.

Sheesh... this is a tough call.

You really need a decent monitoring system. But the headroom and clarity you'll get from an Octane (which i have, and love) is important too, especially if your system accepts the ADAT litepipe... The DMP3 is a great preamp for the money too.

Take a deep breath, and choose!
Either way,

 

[Armistice]

Dissenting opinion.

I made 2 albums "for my own enjoyment" using no amps and my stereo instead of monitors. The third one I didn't, but I could have, because I had a good idea of the speakers by that stage.

I'd chuck the money on pres rather than monitors at this stage with the proviso that you check your mixes on as many other stereo systems as you can at every opportunity.

When you get monitors eventually... get damn good ones.

My $0.02

 

[up-fiddler]

I think there is a certain basic level of equipment you need to help do your best work. Mike pres and monitors fall in that category. I'd buy both. If I could only afford either/or then it would be monitors. I would whine mightily until I had both though , DAve.