A few questions relating to monitoring

[kidkage]

1. I was told to go for krk rokit 6's instead of rokit 5's.
I decided to go with the 6's. Now I have the option to go for the 8's.
An incredibly trust worthy source around here told me monitors up to 10" will work with my room, but I'm concerned the going for 8's instead of 6's would be "too powerful" for my room (...yeah even though I've been told up to 10's are good)
Is that a valid concern? Is there any situation in which 5, 6, 8, or 10's would be mandatory over the other or does it not matter since it's all near field monitoring?
...like, i have some thing in my brain telling me that the 6's are actually/will be flatter and have a better response than the 8's.
for some reason, i've convinced myself that the 5's are too trebly, the 8's are too bassy, but the 6's are the perfect balance. I have no real info or krk listening experience to back that up or anything, but for some reason i cant stop thinking that

2. I plan on running into Cubase through a firewire mixer. The mixer will have monitor outs (for monitoring during tracking im sure), but how would I monitor during playback, and more importantly during mixing? Attach to the computer somehow? Or by some routing through the interface?

 

[Mo Facta]

1. I was told to go for krk rokit 6's instead of rokit 5's.
I decided to go with the 6's. Now I have the option to go for the 8's.
An incredibly trust worthy source around here told me monitors up to 10" will work with my room, but I'm concerned the going for 8's instead of 6's would be "too powerful" for my room (...yeah even though I've been told up to 10's are good)
Is that a valid concern? Is there any situation in which 5, 6, 8, or 10's would be mandatory over the other or does it not matter since it's all near field monitoring?
...like, i have some thing in my brain telling me that the 6's are actually/will be flatter and have a better response than the 8's.
for some reason, i've convinced myself that the 5's are too trebly, the 8's are too bassy, but the 6's are the perfect balance. I have no real info or krk listening experience to back that up or anything, but for some reason i cant stop thinking that

I don't understand how your question can be answered as nobody here knows your room. What are the dimensions? Have you done any acoustic treatment to the room? Pictures might help.

Also, unless your room has been acoustically "tuned" it could cause problems regardless of the size of your speakers. Of course, larger speakers will have more bass extension and produce more volume when pushed and therefore, if there are any spectral inconsistencies in that range (NB. most rooms will exhibit standing waves in the low end, etc, based on the dimensions/resonant frequency of the room and it's harmonics, nodes, etc) the inconsistencies will most likely be exaggerated. However, that being said, if your room is problematic you will still experience inconsistencies at any volume although they will be minimized when you monitor at lower levels. These are the laws of physics and they can not be eliminated. They can only be controlled or worked around.

2. I plan on running into Cubase through a firewire mixer. The mixer will have monitor outs (for monitoring during tracking im sure), but how would I monitor during playback, and more importantly during mixing? Attach to the computer somehow? Or by some routing through the interface?

What firewire mixer are you using? This type of information is crucial to give you any helpful advice. Typically mixers equipped with firewire are also audio interfaces so therefore all of your routing in and out of Cubase will be done within the DAW itself through the firewire bus. In the case of a mixer like an Allen & Heath ZED-R16 (or a Mackie Onyx 1640i, etc), you can either monitor directly off the mixer or you can record directly from the preamps and monitor through a stereo return back to the mixer. These mixers are usually quite versatile and are made to be a one-stop solution to recording, mixing and monitoring.

Hope that helps.

Cheers

 

[kidkage]

I don't understand how your question can be answered as nobody here knows your room. What are the dimensions? Have you done any acoustic treatment to the room? Pictures might help.

Also, unless your room has been acoustically "tuned" it could cause problems regardless of the size of your speakers. Of course, larger speakers will have more bass extension and produce more volume when pushed and therefore, if there are any spectral inconsistencies in that range (NB. most rooms will exhibit standing waves in the low end, etc, based on the dimensions/resonant frequency of the room and it's harmonics, nodes, etc) the inconsistencies will most likely be exaggerated. However, that being said, if your room is problematic you will still experience inconsistencies at any volume although they will be minimized when you monitor at lower levels. These are the laws of physics and they can not be eliminated. They can only be controlled or worked around.



What firewire mixer are you using? This type of information is crucial to give you any helpful advice. Typically mixers equipped with firewire are also audio interfaces so therefore all of your routing in and out of Cubase will be done within the DAW itself through the firewire bus. In the case of a mixer like an Allen & Heath ZED-R16 (or a Mackie Onyx 1640i, etc), you can either monitor directly off the mixer or you can record directly from the preamps and monitor through a stereo return back to the mixer. These mixers are usually quite versatile and are made to be a one-stop solution to recording, mixing and monitoring.

Hope that helps.

Cheers

Ok, ill get some pics up. and its looking like ill be going with a alesis multimix 16 (it's usb 2.0 not firewire I decided on the alesis an hour ago)

 

[clivus]

When I was looking for near-field monitors I arranged for a 'shoot-out' at the local guitar center. i spent about an hour listening to several monitors using familiar mixes. (I ended up getting the 8" powered Yamahas) Might help you to try this.

 

[arcadeko]

I plug my KRK 6's into my Alesis tape outputs and it plays back anything on my computer (eg DAW or WMP) through my monitors. Once the interface is selected in your DAW it will use it for input and output. So your monitors can be used while recording and mixing.

 

[NYMorningstar]

When I was looking for near-field monitors I arranged for a 'shoot-out' at the local guitar center. i spent about an hour listening to several monitors using familiar mixes. (I ended up getting the 8" powered Yamahas) Might help you to try this.

+1 that's the only way to do it IMHO.

 

[kidkage]

When I was looking for near-field monitors I arranged for a 'shoot-out' at the local guitar center. i spent about an hour listening to several monitors using familiar mixes. (I ended up getting the 8" powered Yamahas) Might help you to try this.

Unfortunately, I am at least a 2 hour drive away from a place that may or may not allow that
Gas is dumb.

 

[kidkage]

like i said,

i have some thing in my brain telling me that the 6's are actually/will be flatter and have a better response than the 8's. not in my room, just in general
for some reason, i've convinced myself that the 5's are too trebly, the 8's are too bassy, but the 6's are the perfect balance. I have no real info or krk listening experience to back that up or anything, but for some reason i cant stop thinking that

is there any reason to believe that, generally? or are bigger speakers normally a better response.
or is it only dependent on the room

 

[kidkage]

I plug my KRK 6's into my Alesis tape outputs and it plays back anything on my computer (eg DAW or WMP) through my monitors. Once the interface is selected in your DAW it will use it for input and output. So your monitors can be used while recording and mixing.

thats relaxing to know

 

[Mo Facta]

Guys, you realize the response of any speakers you buy is going to be offset by the response of your room so listening to them at your local music store is going to mean absolutely nothing? Speakers should always be demoed in your own monitoring environment. It's easy to be taken in by hyped speakers that sound "great" in an environment you're not going to work in.

The only way to really hear the true sound of a speaker is to listen to them in an anechoic chamber or in a room that has properly designed acoustics. The rest is a learning process of trial and error. In all seriousness, do not make your room acoustics the number one overlooked issue.

Cheers

 

[JimmyS1969]

Agreed MO. I think there should be a 'sticky' about this topic.

Disregarding room treatment and testing it's efficiency, will leave you without the possibility to actually form an opinion on monitors anyway. Testing speakers in an unfamiliar environment will give you a basic feel of what they are producing, but they could possibly sound like crap in your space. I myself, would recommend 8" monitors, but that is based on my room, with the few monitors that I have worked with there. My opinion means absolutely nothing to someone without the exact same room. Any monitor you purchase, whatever size, whatever brand, will be a personal choice. You will 'learn' how these monitors sound and how to get your mixes to translate on other systems. It doesn't really matter what they are, but how you are able to hear them. If 6" ones are driving your gut feeling, then that is probably what you want to go with. You otherwise may blame the monitors rather than being comfortable with what they are telling you.

I think the best advice, after spending $300+ on room treatment, may be to just buy the most expensive pair you can afford at this point. Learn what they tell you about your room by using them. Only then can you actually form an opinion for yourself. Anyone Else's advice is just personal opinion that you really need to form for yourself. You can then use your first uneducated choices as alternate reference monitors as I do.

Guys, you realize the response of any speakers you buy is going to be offset by the response of your room so listening to them at your local music store is going to mean absolutely nothing? Speakers should always be demoed in your own monitoring environment. It's easy to be taken in by hyped speakers that sound "great" in an environment you're not going to work in.

The only way to really hear the true sound of a speaker is to listen to them in an anechoic chamber or in a room that has properly designed acoustics. The rest is a learning process of trial and error. In all seriousness, do not make your room acoustics the number one overlooked issue.

Cheers

 

[clivus]

Guys, you realize the response of any speakers you buy is going to be offset by the response of your room so listening to them at your local music store is going to mean absolutely nothing? Speakers should always be demoed in your own monitoring environment. It's easy to be taken in by hyped speakers that sound "great" in an environment you're not going to work in.

The only way to really hear the true sound of a speaker is to listen to them in an anechoic chamber or in a room that has properly designed acoustics. The rest is a learning process of trial and error. In all seriousness, do not make your room acoustics the number one overlooked issue.

Cheers

I would agree with this in theory, but it is not always possible to do so in reality(as I too live 2.5 hours away from my 'local' Guitar Center). I found that even though my mixing space and the monitor room at the Guitar Center are have different sonic characteristics, I was still able to learn alot about the response of each monitor by doing the 'shoot-out' in the store.

 

[arcadeko]

I'm about to spend $300 on room treatment too! I'm dreading it completely...

 

[JimmyS1969]

I would say that you were able to learn alot about the response of each monitor in relation to each other in that particular room. Translation in your own room will most likely be very different. Though comparing monitors together is a great start for sure.

I would agree with this in theory, but it is not always possible to do so in reality(as I too live 2.5 hours away from my 'local' Guitar Center). I found that even though my mixing space and the monitor room at the Guitar Center are have different sonic characteristics, I was still able to learn alot about the response of each monitor by doing the 'shoot-out' in the store.

 

[JimmyS1969]

You won't after you hear your room after.

I'm about to spend $300 on room treatment too! I'm dreading it completely...

 

[clivus]

I would say that you were able to learn alot about the response of each monitor in relation to each other in that particular room. Translation in your own room will most likely be very different.

Again I would agree. For me it was mostly an issue of finding the monitors that had flat, un-hyped bass response, which is the toughest thing for me to get right in the mix. I was avoiding 'good sounding' monitors.

 

[Mo Facta]

But still, how can you tell that in a room different from yours and most likely not an ideal monitoring environment?

There is no way around it. Every room affects monitor response and it's more drastic than you think.

Most serious shops will allow you to demo speakers before you buy them. Just explain to them the method to your madness and I'm sure something can be arranged.

Cheers

 

[saads]

Guys, you realize the response of any speakers you buy is going to be offset by the response of your room so listening to them at your local music store is going to mean absolutely nothing?

Testing speakers at the store shouldn't be the only thing you factor in when choosing a pair, but it certainly won't mean 'absolutely nothing'. It's a good way to find out which monitors you lean towards more, and when you've narrowed it down to a few, try to get those monitors into your listening environment for further testing.

 

[JimmyS1969]

Most serious shops will allow you to demo speakers before you buy them. Just explain to them the method to your madness and I'm sure something can be arranged.

This is a very good point. There is a list of 'returnable' gear at Guitar Center'. You can purchase anything from this list and return it within 30 days for a full refund. Monitors are on this list. The list is even flexible if you just ask. I once wanted to try out a ribbon mic, which is not on the list. I explained that I wanted to see how it worked for guitar cabinet miking. It was returned without question. It is best to use a credit card, as it only takes a few days for your card holder to be credited back. Good luck getting $500+ in cash from GC the day you bring it back. As long as you have a credit card that will approve the payment (I mean yours or any one who will let you use it), you can buy 5 sets of monitors, take them home to compare, and return them all with full refund. The card only acts as insurance for them. Just don't poke in any tweeters!

Hell, I'll admit that once I needed a wireless guitar setup for a gig, I just paid for it, played the gig, and brought it back. I happened to know a guy that worked at this particular store and he was the one who recommended doing it.

Oh and by the way, always check online for better pricing for the gear you want to buy. GC will always match the price and give you 10% off the difference as well. I got my US 1641 that way because B&H misprinted a sale price online at cost. $207.00. They will also look it up online at the store for you if you just ask.

I would guess that the other big dealers have similar policy.

 

[clivus]

But still, how can you tell that in a room different from yours and most likely not an ideal monitoring environment?

There is no way around it. Every room affects monitor response and it's more drastic than you think.

Calculated risk. Perhaps it was just luck that the Yamahas work very well in my room, but I believe that the method that was used to select them is useful and valid. I am not disputing the points you make about the influence of the room on the sound of the monitors. I am familiar with the the issues of room modes and resonance, and choose to mix in a room that does not have seem to have alot of bad resonance problems (family room 15x24x9 ft. with furniture/bookcases/area rugs/textured drywall). The mixes seem to translate very well to other rooms/systems.