A few questions answered

[Light]

I was sent a private message today, and it was just something I would rather answer in the public area.

The first question was about truss rods, in particular where to buy them. All of the typical suppliers have these, Stew-Mac, LMI, and Allparts. More to the point, I do not think it makes any sense to buy them, however. It is very easy to make a Gibson style truss rod, and they work very well. They are also less prone to problems, because of their simple design. There are enough sources of information out there for this, so I do not feel a need to write it all out, particularly as I am running on about 24 hours of work and five hours of sleep. I am rather tired.

The other question was about fret wire. I get mine either from Dunlop or Martin. As far as what you want, I don't know. It is up to your. What I can say is that electrics typically have larger fret wire than acoustics. My favorite for electrics is Dunlop 6150, which is a jumbo fret wire. Gibson fret wire is typically shorter than 6150 but the width is about the same. Fender wire is typically smaller, but taller than Gibson. There are as many sources for fret wire as there are for Truss Rods. Warmoth is another source, particularly for fret wire.

The interesting thing going on right now in fret wire is Stainless Steel. Unfortunately, Stainless wire is hard to find. The only easy source right now is Allied Lutherie, but they only have one size, which is only really meant for acoustic guitar. LMI tells me they have wire on order, but have not released it yet. Their concern is they are not yet sure if the tools they sell can handle the additional hardness of the stainless steel.

Because it is so hard, the stainless steel does not wear as quickly as standard nickel silver frets (which have no silver in them, by the by). It also, apparently, has a smoother feel, though I have not yet tried enough guitars with stainless wire to have an opinion on this myself. I can say that it is a major pain in the behind to work with, by all accounts. I would certainly not try it for the first guitar you fret. If I can find a source for the stainless in a size I want, I will be doing it with a fret pressing arbor, which helps, but not enough to make the task easy.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[donkeystyle]

thanks light. i actually found 2 more websites after i sent you the pm. one of which you listed....stewmac.com and the other was wdmusicproducts.com

i was also wondering about using fenders scale instead of gibsons scale on the neck......i dont remember what they are right now, but i'm sure you know them by heart. i honestly dont know what the scale will do, other than effect the feel of the guitar. i've been told by a few people that it affects how well the guitar stays in tune, but i dont know if that was just people talking out their asses or what.

basically, i really am not uncomfortable on either length, so it comes down to whether the tuning thing is a myth or not.

the reason i thought i would buy the truss rod is i read on some website that they cost like 10 bucks. from stewmac they're 10 bucks and since i'm probably going to get a bunch of stuff from there, i'll probably just buy one. it's interesting that you said that you would just go for the basic one. i figured the hot rods (i think that's what they were called) would be better and was considering paying the extra couple bucks for them.

i was also wondering if hide glue is the way to go.i think that the answer is yes, but i just want to be sure. if it is, then i'll make sure that's what we use.

also. although my questions seem to be directed towards light, that's only because he's the only one on this board that i know has experience with building guitars, so anyone with any experience in building or repairing guitars is more than welcome to give their opinions.

 

[Light]

i was also wondering about using fenders scale instead of gibsons scale on the neck......i dont remember what they are right now, but i'm sure you know them by heart. i honestly dont know what the scale will do, other than effect the feel of the guitar. i've been told by a few people that it affects how well the guitar stays in tune, but i dont know if that was just people talking out their asses or what.

basically, i really am not uncomfortable on either length, so it comes down to whether the tuning thing is a myth or not.

Scale length does not affect the tuning, but it does have an effect on the sound. The way I hear it is that, though other things have a bigger effect on tone (particularly pickups), the scale length is the foundation on which you build that sound. You will never make a long scale guitar sound like a short scale guitar, whatever the pickups, because the foundation is different. The way my father describes it, and I think he is about right, is that the short Gibson scale (24.65 inches) sounds like a choir singing together, where as the long scale (he is talking about Martin's, which are 25.4, though Fender is 25.5) is like a group of soloists all singing together. It seems a fairly accurate description to me, as much as anyone can describe tone. The best thing is to listen to as many guitars as you can, and try and figure out where that tonal difference is. I have an advantage in this, because I play a lot more guitars, and I can build guitars just as experiments, identical except for one small detail, and see how they differ. You don't have that, so you just need to play as many guitars as possible.

the reason i thought i would buy the truss rod is i read on some website that they cost like 10 bucks. from stewmac they're 10 bucks and since i'm probably going to get a bunch of stuff from there, i'll probably just buy one. it's interesting that you said that you would just go for the basic one. i figured the hot rods (i think that's what they were called) would be better and was considering paying the extra couple bucks for them.

i was also wondering if hide glue is the way to go.i think that the answer is yes, but i just want to be sure. if it is, then i'll make sure that's what we use.

I don't like the "double acting" truss rods much. They cost too much, there is more which can go wrong with them, and they just don't do the job any better than a Gibson style rod. Simple is always better from a mechanical point of view, and the Gibson style truss rod is as simple as it gets while maintaining adjustability. Also, it is very easy to make the Gibson rod double acting. You simply install the truss rod, and before you put on the fingerboard, you put a half a turn of tension on the rod, and then flatten the fingerboard surface with the truss rod under tension. If you get any back bow, you can then loosen the rod. A double acting truss rod and it is cheap, effective, and simple. Remember, simple is good. Less to go wrong.

I would not bother with hide glue on an electric (in fact, I don't). I would only use hide glue for acoustics. The benefit is just not big enough. The vast majority of the gluing I do is with regular old Tightbond, though I have done some experimenting with the LMI instrument maker’s glue, and I like it. Hide glue is great stuff, but it is a lot of extra work, and most of the clamping on electrics is too time consuming for using a hide glue which is as strong as I would like. If you really want to learn about hide glue, check out Frank Ford's site, Frets.com. He has a whole section on hide glue, and knows more about it than any other guitar guy I know.

Just so you know, I use a whole bunch of different glues when I am building. I use either West System or System Three epoxy for the basic laminating things, such as the neck blank (I make neck through electrics), the body wings, and the tops. These are high tech epoxies which dry very hard, so I think there is some tonal advantage to them. These are also things which are irreparable if they delaminate, so I use glue which will NEVER let go.

The peghead overlay and the fingerboard go on with Tightbond, and if I did a set neck design, I would set the neck with Tightbond. NEVER do peghead overlays, neck sets, or fingerboards with epoxy. These are all things which frequently need to be removed for repair work, and epoxy can not be reversed. Tightbond can be. This is very, very, very important. I know a lot of guys who do fingerboards with epoxy, and they are idiots about that. But none of them do any repair work, and we do. We have a much more long term view of building.

I use Hot Stuff brand cyanoacrylate for setting inlays, gluing down fret ends, and filling dips in the lacquer. Hot Stuff is a high end grade of super glue. Not the stuff they use for medical procedures, but the next step down. It dries instantly, completely clear, and is fabulous for situations where you don't need a lot of strength. It has very bad shear strength, so it can not be used for the areas of stress on a guitar, but for things which are not under stress, it is great. For inlays, I fill the gaps in the cavity with artist’s charcoal, and then use some Hot Stuff to glue it all together. Great stuff, for the right purpose.

We are just starting to experiment with using System Three's "Clear Coat" epoxy for grain filling when finishing guitars, but we nothing I can really comment on yet.

WD is another good source, but I tend to lean towards Allparts for most things. The one thing WD does exceptionally well is pickguards. They are a great place for pickguards. They also carry the Tone Pros hardware, which is nice stuff.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[donkeystyle]

i can't thank you enough man.