A Designs MP2/GR MP-2NV/Avalon 2022

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justharold

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I have about narrowed down my "Pre Search" to three...

A Designs MP2
GR MP-2NV
Avalon 2022

I am looking for a good pre that I can do the vast majority of my tracking with (at least until I can expand later). Therefore, it needs to be a pre that sounds good on everything. ESPECIALLY vocals, as I track a LOT of vocals (sometimes as many as 9 -12 per song, when you include background vox and stacks, etc.).

I also record accoustic instruments (I am currently recording a project that includes guitars, mandolins, banjo, violin and a flute...yippee...)

My mic list is as follows:

Neumann TLM103
Rode NT1000
Rode NT1A
Studio Projects C1 & C3
AT 3035

So...what do you think?

Thanks...
 
Dan, thanks for the response and for your recommendation. However, I am afraid that I was not clear about my usage after reading what you said...and re-reading my post. I want this pre primarily for vocals, as that is what I primarily do. By far, the greatest work I do in recording is recording vocals. Usually, putting them with pre-recorded instrument tracks (that is, the instruments were recorded elsewhere). Occasionally, I will record accoustics. So...I would like a pre that could handle it all for now.

I have been POURING over the Listening Session stuff for weeks. Man, you have no idea how much I appreciate that resource!

Anyways...given my explanation...would you still recommend the John Hardy over the others? If so, why?

Thanks a million,
Harold
 
i got the hardy and have been very pleaed with it. i got a manley tube pre amp and it's real good too. the a designs will pick up everyting in your room and ad distortion that will ruin your recording. i had to redo several track s onour album becasue of the distorthin from the adesign.

they usedd the wrong tube in the a design, the tube they used is a microphonic design which means that it pickw up everyting in the room and add it as distortion to your music.

the hardy is the best thing and the great river is real good too. the great river is more flexible thna the hardy and sounds deeper and richer than the hardy and wiht the mics you have you may very well want a pre that will make those kinda thin sounging mics deeper an d richer sounding
 
Rocker, thanks for the reply and for your insights. I, too, was wondering about the "deeper and richer" aspect. I would like to add to my mic collection later. But, for now, that is what I have.

The John Hardy has been (and is) one of my finalists as well. I did think, however, that it sounded a little thin compared to the GR. However, perhaps "thinner" may be better when it comes to tracking several tracks with the same pre?

Do you think that the GR might get a little heavy (or just plain "too much") doing multiple tracks?

I am basically looking for clean, rich and detailed here...(which is what, I guess, we are ALL looking for...) ;)
 
Just to make thing a bit more difficult for you..

I haven't had much problems(like rocker having to redo things etc.) with A-Designs microphonic tube, but if your gonna put it in the live room where the band is playing I'd suggest something else, because of the tubes microphonic nature, but as a vocal pre(i'm assuming the pre would be in the control room not the live room) it'll work great and the DI's kick serious ass.

Justa FYI, reason the ef86 tube was used was because it sounded better then everything that was put in to that design
 
This is a tough one, because sound is such a personal preference thing. I use the AD2022 as my primary preamp for instruments and about half of my vocals. The rest of the vocals go through a Joemeek twinQ. If I want color, I use Joemeek. If I want the truth, I go through the Avalon. The Avalon has proven itself to be a world class preamp. Problem is, no one preamp will give you all the variations you need. I would say consider the Avalon M-5 (same preamp as 2022, only one channel) if your needs are primarily for vox, saving about $1000 toward a somewhat more colored preamp, and have a choice. If you want clean gain, the Avalon will provide all you can stand. If you want to airbrush the rough edges, the Avalon simply wasn't made for it. You can't overdrive it, it has 36db of headroom when the needle is pegged, and there isn't a tube in sight. Just the facts, ma'am. It will, however, reveal the best qualities of a great mic.-Richie
 
This is where the Great River comes in. To me its kind of like a Distressor. It may not be the single one greatest preamp for any given situation, but its really hard to find another preamp that sounds so good and retains such a high degree of versatility. To me the only pre's that might be more flexible is going to be something a Pendulum Quartet or a Millenia Origin. But now we just doubled the budget at least.

I too have never had anything but good experiences with the A Designs pre's. If you are experiencing that much distortion and crap i would have to say that either you are using it wrong, or have a bad unit.
 
Richard Monroe said:
It will, however, reveal the best qualities of a great mic.-Richie
Click to expand...


What would it do with a "Not-so-great" mic, though?
 
Harold, I was under the impression from your post that you'd also be recording lots of acoustic instruments.

I also record accoustic instruments (I am currently recording a project that includes guitars, mandolins, banjo, violin and a flute...yippee...)

That's where the strong Hardy recommendation came in. And if that's the case - I'd go M-1.

Now, it seems you're really more interested in vocals, and most of those acoustic tracks aren't recorded by you. OK - good piece of info to know. : )

I'm gonna knock the GR ME-2NV out of the race, IMO. It's a much better pre if you were recording rock and amps and looking for a classic sound. Great pre. Just not this time, IMO. I reviewed the single channel ME-1NV here. Actually, while you're looking, Great River makes a great clean/transparent pre - the MP-2.

The A Designs MP – I reviewed the MP here – is a great consideration for vocals. But also works great on acoustic instruments and the DI is killer. The MP is a clean tube pre. I think rocker's problem was he was trying to record loud rock/punk/whatever music with it while the MP was in the same room - and probably very near some source that set off the microphonic tubes. I wouldn't have recommended that the MP be used in that case. In fact, I would have recommended the Great River NV. : )

The Avalon AD2022 is a stunning pre. Cleaner than the Hardy. Avalon is between transparent and clean on the pre continuum. If you're mainly going to cut vocals I don't think you'd get enough mileage out of a $2600ish-for-two-channels mic pre. And also - because if you had an extra $1000 in your budget, I recommend you spend it on a mic - or at least slap an RNC compressor in your vocal chain.

The Hardy is a clean pre but has a Jensen transformer and the 990 opamp. Hardy hits a happy medium, IMO, between squeaky clean and ever so slightly colored. Putting right at the perfect definition of what I'd consider "clean". I'd still recommend it as a strong contender. A very natural mic pre that will let you hear the flavor of whatever mic you use as well as the source.

BTW, Harold, any reason you're looking for a two-channel pres instead of a single-channel?

Actually, now that I have more info - I'd personally narrow the choices down to the Hardy and the A Designs.

The bottom line is any of the pres listed so far in this thread would do a great job for you.
 
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A "not so great mic"? Not that important, if it's the *right* mic. I use it (AD2022) often with an old AKG D320B ($45 on ebay). If I sing through an SM57, it sounds bad. Why? Because I sound good through an old AKG and bad through an SM57, and the Avalon isn't going to change that. It's like Catherine Zeta Jones with no makeup. Still looks pretty good. The Avalon will make anything sound the way it sounds. It won't make it sound better than it sounds.-Richie
 
Teacher said:
I haven't had much problems(like rocker having to redo things etc.) with A-Designs microphonic tube, but if your gonna put it in the live room where the band is playing I'd suggest something else, because of the tubes microphonic nature, but as a vocal pre(i'm assuming the pre would be in the control room not the live room)
Click to expand...

There are occasions when I am forced to record a vocal in my control room. Would this be a problem with the A-Designs?
 
Dot said:
And also - because if you had an extra $1000 in your budget, I recommend you spend it on a mic - or at least slap an RNC compressor in your vocal chain.
Click to expand...

Dot,
Again, I want to thank you for taking the time with me on this. You mentioned a mic. Now, I know this is a subjective thing sometimes but could you recommend some good mic combos for both the Hardy and the A Designs? (BTW...I already have an RNC - which is another reason I am shying from the Avalon. I just hate the thought of going balanced to unbalanced.)

Dot said:
BTW, Harold, any reason you're looking for a two-channel pres instead of a single-channel?
Click to expand...

Well...mostly because (to tell you the truth) by the time you buy a single channel it is only a few bucks more to get a second. I would much rather do either a 2-channel A-Designs or a Hardy now...and then buy the other later. :)
 
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justharold said:
Do you think that the GR might get a little heavy (or just plain "too much") doing multiple tracks?
Click to expand...

First, lemme say that I ain't selling anything here... but a point of clarification is due. You can read the whole story here: http://mercenaryeditions.com/mp-2nv.shtml

... but if you don't feel like reading the whole thing, following is what I think is the relevant excerpt.

Working with the folks at Sowter transformers, Dan Kennedy came up with a special, custom transformer specifically for the Great River MP-2NV "Mercenary Edition", that achieved Fletcher's sonic criteria. The idea was to build a transformer that would have all the "size" and "thunder" that you would find in the pre-amp of an original Neve™ 1073, but without the 'haze' and 'mush' that can accumulate when you run a whole bunch of tracks through a 1073. Fletcher wanted it all, size, thickness, but with an open character to the sound and the availability of "air" in addition to "depth".
Click to expand...

At any rate, that was the goal... and at least from my perspective, we accomplished the goal. This is not to say that I'm not a huge fan of the John Hardy "M-1". I have a 4 channel unit in my studio, which gets used on a very regular basis. It's really a staple in our joint.

Best of luck with your search!!

Peace.
 
justharold said:
There are occasions when I am forced to record a vocal in my control room. Would this be a problem with the A-Designs?
Click to expand...

not unless you have the speakers blasting away.
 
Harold, with the mics you already have - if you're mainly doing vocals - the A Designs will smooth things out in a nice way for you. Most of your mics are colored and bright with a hi-mid hype - especially 103, C1 and C3. You could either go darker with something like an MXL V69 ME or ribbon mic, or you could go for a mic thats more neutral with no color - like the AKG 414, ADK TL or one of the 40 series from Audio-Technica such as the 4033, 4040 or 4050.

Something like a 414 would be a good complement to the 103. 414 works great on any pre listed in this thread.
 
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To follow up on what Dot said above, I use the 414 into the AD2022 as a staple for acoustic guitar and backing vox. Lead vocals only if they're really good. I also use an RNC at times, and balanced into unbalanced is not a problem with short runs of cable. However, I'll admit that finding good female XLR to 1/4" TS cables is a bit of a pain.-Richie
 
Dot (a.k.a. "Dan") and Richard,

Whoa...did you guys ever make me feel good! I (just today) bought a used 414 (got a good price on it, too). I was hoping it was a good choice. However, I knew it was (and is) a studio staple. (I also noted just how good it sounded on the "male vox" in the Listening Sessions.)

Thanks gentlemen for making my day!
 
Good move, Harold. You'll also find that the 414 is the best mic in your collection for acoustic guitar.
 
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