9 Drum Tracks in Two Days... remote drum recording...

[MiXit-G]

Good stuff long wave!

I agree about the gate as this cutting off has happened to some of my mixes,very undesirable indeed.

A cowboy told me that you need to do it on the way 'in' because it does'nt sound as good later...sounds like bull.

I want to setup a rack for remote recording (with a shinynew HD24) based on the information on this thread the only other outboards i i need is maybee a patchbay and a headphone mixer?? Would you agree LWS???

Still wondering about the mic position check.( what do you do LWS?)

Im learning somthing now!!

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Ok bass and drums, would you DI the bass and mic the amp or just DI, because of the bleed, i find especially with the kik mic the bass can come through and therefore limit my EQ control on it?

I would do both (as Romesh mentioned)... Use baffles to minmize some of the bleed, and placing the kick mic inside the kick usually minimizes bleed as well...

Mic positioning? you did all this with headphone right,but did you check the signal "live" or did you track it and monitor it later....?

I used a pair of very accurate headphones to check against, then took some sample cuts back to the studio at the end of the set-up session. I was able to make notes on any tweaks I wanted to do by checking it in the control room.... the next day, I made the adjustments and from then on, nothing was changed - mic positions were fixed, as were the settings on the board.

I noticed no signal processing?? not even gates or compression..i was told that especially with gates they should be done during tracking, not post. Does it matter?

No signal processing at all -- proper mic selection, proper mic placement, and minor EQ tweaking for the "unavoidables!"

Please Bear with me on this subject i've got so many questions...

"Bear with me..." - heh-heh, I get it!!

 

[MiXit-G]

Bruce id like your opinions on what i put to LWS too...

Bruce, did you use a multicore? how far was your console away from the recording?

Is mic phasing obvious??

 

[LongWaveStudio]

Mixit,

you will need a mixer in order to connect the microphones to the HD24 (btw, how much is that).

not just a regular mixer, you need something which is going to output at least 8 channels for drum recording. if you're intending to record a whole live gig of a band, you're gonna need to think how you're going to send the tracks to the HD24. correct me if im wrong, but the HD24 has no XLR sockets or pre's. im sure it's a standalone recorder.

if you get a small desk where you can output say 8 channels at once, you may need to submix a few things, such as drums.

it could be...

Channel 1: Bass Drum
Channel 2: Snare
Channel 3: Drum Submix (without BD and Snare mics!!)
Channel 4: Bass Guitar DI
Channel 5: Guitar #1
Channel 6: Guitar #2
Channel 7: Vocals
Channel 8: Backing Vocals.

something like that could be done, allthough you dont have the flexibility of recording a lot of tracks at once. you could look into an AD convertor. im sure the HD24 has adat ins. you could get a box which converts 8 analog ins to an adat connection, but again, you have to have a mixer to provide the 8 ins. you cant just plug the mics in.

regarding mic positioning. you will *hear* it. after recording/mixing for a while, you will understand what to look out for.

if you micd up a bass guitar amp which was right next to the bass drum, you would have bass drum all over the bass guitar mic. when you put those faders up against each other, you'd notice a lot of bass frequencies would be just lost. also, in terms of bleed, if you want the bass drum to be quiet and the bass guitar loud, you have a problem because the bass drum is also in the bass guitar mic. does this make sense?!

you want to seperate as much as you can in a live situation, for flexibility at mixdown, so you have no cancellations, and if you're applying compression or effects afterwards, you dont want to apply them to more than the desired instrument, do you?....

-Romesh

 

[MiXit-G]

Yes i get you, iv'e got a soundcraft SX with 8 dirct outs and one L/R subgroup (ah only one, now i want a mackie 1604!).

I understand what your saying about the bleed, its a concern for live gigs but unavoidable really.

As for remote recording i love that idea of DI'ing the bass then running it through an amp later... i love it!!!

It will be awile before i set up my studio untill then i really want to get mobile recording down to a fine art.

Thanks guys for all you knowledge and wisdom!


QUOTE:
you will need a mixer in order to connect the microphones to the HD24 (btw, how much is that).


how much is what Rom???

 

[LongWaveStudio]

i was just asking how much the HD24 was.

if i have a big client coming in for recording, sometimes, when recording the rhythm guitars, I will DI them and run them through various amps on mixdown. it all depends on if you have enough time to try stuff like that out. it's just nice to be able to switch amps without re-tracking. i dont always do it, only if either the guitarist asks about it, or if i think im going to have problems with guitars in the mix.

if you've got 8 directs plus a L/R, you can record 10 instruments at once. use the eight directs, and you have two other channels by panning instruments to the left or the right (to the left will come out of output L and to the right will come out of output R.
2 extra channels gained.

let me know how the mobile recording goes!
Romesh

 

[MiXit-G]

I wont be properly setup for awile,ive got my wedding and then 1 month holiday yet so probly in about three months ill be ready to go.

i was just asking on another thread that because im going to europe maybee i should buy the HD24 over there cos its about $800 USD difference but i wont have the warranty support is it worth sacrificing the warranty?? i mean even if the is a problem ive still got the 700 to fix it? or because its an alesis product maybe i could get international warranty claim through a local shop?????? What would you do Rom, just shell out the extra??

Oh and about the mic phasing what if i swapped the polarity on one of the cables would that work??

 

[LongWaveStudio]

i wouldn't pay 800 dollars for a warranty! mind you, sometimes the worst thigns can happen. you gotta make that desicion.

swapping polarity can work, bt you've better off seeing if you can get the placement right in the first place and avoid it.

 

[MiXit-G]

I agree $800 is a few spondulas!!

Thanks for all your support in this thread Rom, (i think we own it now )....

BTW the HD24 over is about $3000 USD how much is it there?

 

[LongWaveStudio]

over here, i think the HD24 is about £1400, which is roughly $2400 ish.

no problem with the support, you have bruce to thank aswell!
i look forward to hearing some of your live recordings. id advice you get some nice large drives for the HD24, large enough to capture at least 2 hours of recording.

-Romesh

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Bruce, did you use a multicore?

Good question! What's a multicore???

how far was your console away from the recording?

About 15 feet.... that's why headphones with good isolation properties was critical. (also for saving my sanity of listening to drums all day!!!)

Is mic phasing obvious??

Very! Especially noticeable on cymbals -- you'd hear a flanging sound as the cymbal splash decays.... instead of ppppsshhhhhhhhh, it's more like ppppsshhhhhhhhhooowwwwwshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....
(if you get my meaning!)


Bruce

 

[dirk_demon]

At first I didn't, but when you made that sound it came clear to me!

No serious, it gave me loads of info on how to record drums, I think they're the hardest to record. I guess we all can learn from these experiments. Thanks!

Dirk Demon

 

[postalblue]

i love that flangey sound on cymbals in the end of songs.

adriano

 

[LongWaveStudio]

Bruce,

a multicore is like a snake or stage box. usually 16-24 XLR lines in one cable.
supposed to reduce messy cables.

 

[LongWaveStudio]

postal blue, REALLY???

what albums have you been listening to mate??

 

[postalblue]

hehehe
i was just kidding.
but i can hear it sometimes in a lot of homerecorded records.
if i'm not mistaken, and in case you want an example, listen to the smiths' 'reel around the fountain' (the first album version, not the 'hatful of hollow' one), and you can hear it clearly. but i think they used a flanger to do that. but then what do i know.

adriano

 

[LongWaveStudio]

yeah adriano, i love that flanged cymbal sound too, infact, when i mic a drum kit, i tend to use 14 mics on overheads to really give myself all the phasing i want! ahh, i love it!

LOL, just kiddin.

glad you were joking my friend.

 

[MiXit-G]

Good point about the hard drives Rom, and thanks bruce for your help.

I was just flicking through the local music rag and there are a lot of ads for recording, cheap recording too, 24 tracks blah blah... 10 hrs 5 cd's for $160 USD. I dont know how they cover their costs honestly.

But not one advertising remote recording, i figure bands rehearse in a room for months they get used to the enviorment right? plus live gigs, is there enough work in this field?? am i fooling myself thinking that there is a demand in this area??

I have done a few with an adat, and for free.
I just figured if i put myself out there word will get around and work should come in.

Anyways have a good weekend people and -ROCK IT-

 

[LongWaveStudio]

In the UK there isn't too much of a demand for it, but im sure there is in America.

the way to do it is to charge low to start with and gain experience. this will be the best thing you will ever do. there's no point charing someone a high price when you're not entirely sure what you're doing. learn the game first.

-Romesh