4 trk cassette question?

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johneeeveee

johneeeveee

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... when recording on just two tracks on a 4 trk cassette porta, would it increase the fidelity to pan the unused tracks hard left and hard right with the tracks being recorded, to take advantage of the "bleed" to those tracks and use more tape? hopefully this isn't a stupid question.
and while we're on the subject, are there any "tricks" that folks out there have tried that they'd like to share?
thanks- jv
 
interesting concept!

Hey JV,

I don't know if the panning idea will increase fidelity or not, but it's a cool idea. If you try it, please share the results.

Here's one "trick" that I use when I am capturing a song using voice and an acoustic/electric guitar recorded simultaneously:

Go direct into one track with the guitar (so the sound of the guitar will be isolated). And mic the voice fairly close onto the second track, but it will still pick up the "acoustic" sound of the guitar. So what you end up with is the voice and "acoustic sound" of the guitar on one track, and the guitar from the pick-up on the other track. And you can play with the mix from there.

When panning the tracks then you get a stereo field on the guitar which is nice. Then if you add a supporting track in the form of a 2nd voice or 2nd guitar part , the mix really sounds richer to me, than if recorded isolated.

Also, you could sing the song again onto another track, for a pretty cool effect. You want to try to sing fairly close to the original take (or you can throw a few harmonies in). If you are just slightly out of sync in places, it can add a "chorusy" effect.
If you are too far off it just sounds messy ;-)

Maybe lots of people do this already, so it may really not be a "trick" at all, or maybe nobody in their right mind would choose to do it this way (lol), but I have gotten some pretty good results with this method. I also like that the essence of the song is being captured as a "live" take which always seems to serve the song better to me.

I know this is the antithesis of what pro sound people recommend, in terms of allowing bleed into the vocal mic, but it really adds a lot of body to the recording (and i actually like bleed when things are balanced properly.)

Hope this doesn't sound too weird ...it's worked great for me at times and seems like something you might wanna experiment with.

Have fun!!

~Kester
 
IN answer to the panning/doubling tracks question -- now, you won't get any additional fidelity.... the circuitry design (and inherent fidelity loss) is already compromised due to the specs of cassette-based 4-track recording. You can't undo the loss bby doubling-up the tracks...

ie, sound fidelity across 2 1/8" tracks is NOT equal to the sound fidelity of 1 1/4" track....

1/8" + 1/8" = 1/4" in mathematics
but NOT in sound fidelity!
 
Two 1/8 inch record heads do not equal one 1/4 record head. But it was a good question.
 
With regard to the panning/doubling question:

If you have watched a movie on VHS tape you can see dropouts caused by minute losses of magnetic material. Such dropouts are not as noticable on audio tape, but they do occur. So doubling will very slightly improve fidelity because. although the signal is the same on both tracks, the dropouts occur in different places.

I suspect the improvment is impossible to detect with the human ear.
 
BUt since the dropouts occur in different places, you have double the drop-outs.....

Anyways - either way there's absolutely NO advantage to doubling your tracks in this way.....
 
If they occur in different places. the missing audio speck on one is filled in by the other. This is such a small improvement that it probably cannot even be measured, but theoretically, it IS an improvement.
 
thanks!

kesterdevine,
the type of bleed you're talking about isn't weird at all. different sources bleeding into other mics has been done successfully by many people. hell, phil spector's wall of sound was all about that, although he wasn't using the limited bandwidth of a cassette tape:).
blue bear, digital, and derek,
thanks for the explanation. so, from what you're saying, if i wanted to double up on the tracks, i would be just as well off splitting the signal from the mic and running it to two tracks. either way i just end up with 2 side by side tracks, which may just sound "fatter", right? my question sounds kinda silly now that you've explained it so simply.
here's another quick one... why don't people record vocals and guitar in stereo as a rule, but drums are almost always recorded in stereo?
it's great to have experienced engineers on this forum to help out. much appreciated - jv
 
Find me a guitar with a stereo output jack supported by stereo pick ups and I will happily record it in stereo with strings panning left to right as you go from Low E string to high E string.!:)

Want to do this for vocals?

Perhaps a couple of tiny microphones clipped to each nostril? :eek:
 
funny stuff ghost...

... but seriously, i was speaking of the old school, 2 mics up in the room stereo recording, like the old jazz recordings. do engineers just like more of the control of isolated tracks?
 
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