4 creates 16?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Airshift
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Airshift

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hello there, I have a simple question: Is it possible and or feasible, to record on traks 1,2,3,4 send dry to cassette rec. then back into buss on trak 1. Same formula until 16 traks exist on all four traks in total, then mix wet to cassette rec. 16 into 2 traks.Despite the balancing problems, would this all fit in the frequency range of the Fostex X-30? thanks in advance
 
not only are you going to have balancing problems, but the tape hiss would be horrible!!! plus the fact that you will not have any control over any of the original sounds at mix time because they will be commited to tape for good.....no way to redo them once you start syncing more tracks. look into a couple of ALESIS ADAT's. About 7or 8 hundred dollars apiece and well worth the money for pritine digital audio. Good luck!
 
This will work fine, but here is a suggestion:

Put down the most important tracks last!
For example, Guitar 1, Guitar 2, shaker 3 and tamborine 4. (These set your tempo and arrangement). Mix these four to cassette then back to track 1.

Then on track 2 piano, 3, Lead guitar 4 bass. Mix these 3 to cassette then back to track 2.

Drums on 3, harmony vocal on 4, mix to cassette. back to track 3.

Record lead vocal on track 4 (1st generation). and there you go!

You shouldn't get too much hiss as long as your cassette deck is pretty good.

This is only 10 tracks, but only two bounces
....the instruments you desire may change your order of recording.

Dom Franco
 
Record guitar, bass, and then drums???? Are you mad???? No No No No!!!!!!!!! This idea is clearly bunk....
 
I was just using this as a quick example, not an actual template. I would always keep the drums 1st generation anyway.(no bouncing since the hiss effects the cymbal frequencys). If you don't need that many tracks, you might just bounce guitars and harmony vocals etc.

Dom Franco
 
First off. lets analyze the mathematics here...

With ONE 4 track recorder, you will NEVER get 16 tracks of sound to it.
On the first pass, You can record all 4 tracks and foldback to a single track (regardless of the method used to accomplish this mix).
Second pass, you have 3 tracks remaining and replicate the process, returning to the second single track... this yields 7 existing on 2.
Third pass, 2 tracks recorded and mixed back to track 3... (9 parts existing on 3 tracks).
Final pass: add one... only... 10 is your max... period... unless you've got machines hidden somewhere that you're not telling us about!... well?...

Now lets analyze the feasability of making something good with only four tracks to work with... ahhh, anyone ever hear of a little item known as Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band? Four tracks... the end! Now granted, THAT was reel to reel and, there IS only one George Martin on the planet, but regardless, One needs to keep in mind that the technical specs on todays cassette recorders are better than the specs on the 'state of the art' studio gear of yesteryear.

Finally, not to side with anyone here, but:
Just what exactly might be wrong with recording Guitar, Bass and drums in that order and at different times? It occurs all the time...

The only thing I can guess is that if I were a guitar player and I had absolutely NO farging sense of timing, then it might be a bit tough on my drummer to make a beat fit after the fact....

Well, it just so happens that I AM a guitar player but I DO have a farging sense of timing and: I can (and HAVE) laid rhythm guitar tracks onto a machine all alone... no one else was watching or playing or listening or even there when it happened... and then, guess what?... somehow they end up good enough to find their way into the root of a recording... sometimes, they need to be tweaked... sometimes, they don't.

I will point out that there are many ways to 'skin the proverbial cat'... people who cant skin well may argue that the way their neighbor skins MUST be wrong! The neighbor however, may be a consumate pro and has skinned thousands of cats in thousands of different ways... each one successful. Be careful what you call a bad idea! You may just be speaking from ignorance... rest assured, there ARE others out there who are masters of the 'bunk' we may consider impossible.

My sermon concludes...

Good Luck and best wishes to all.

Cordially,
the guitar half of "RockNGunz"

[This message has been edited by RockIt Recorder (edited 08-22-1999).]

[This message has been edited by RockIt Recorder (edited 08-22-1999).]
 
Hey,ya'll.Boy,ask a simple question.I been there with the 16 traks into 2 with a 4-trak cassette and it's a pain in the neck even with another machine.Like the man said,upgrade.I saved up,got me a 8-trak digital and it was like when I moved from my single wide tornado catcher to a new three bedroom split-level with a detatched garage and a automatic dishwasher.Yee haa!
 
ATTN: The Guitar Half Of "Rock-N-Gunz"
Since you bill yourself as "half" of the band I will assume you have no drummer. If you expect a drummer to lay down drum tracks to an existing guitar track, I will assume you won't ever be able to keep a decent drummer.
I know that using stereotypes to make assumptions about a persons behaviour is politically incorrect, but if stereotypes werent accurate then they wouldnt exist.
You play a Marshall, right??? You live in a midsize town where you can still have long hair and get laid...am I close??? You may even be a salesperson at a polular local music store. You have played in numerous bands that did mostly covers but would sneak in an original tune every now and then...and no one could tell the difference???
I think the only cat that got skinned was the one that provided the trim for your suede tights...
Hey now... just kidding...rock on...stick to your gunz!!!
 
Drums have been put down after the other main instruments on many sucessful recordings, Neil Peart (RUSH) played drums last on many of their albums. As RockIt says, if the musicians all have good timing and ability, it works out. I would prefer to record drums and guitar and bass at the same time, but limited inputs, mic's, space and the logistics of getting everyone together makes it near impossible.

Nothing is written in stone, it's whatever works and gets the job done.

To answer the question though. Sure, no math limitation, if your going down to cassete and back. You can have an infinite amount of tracks this way, but the noise build up and lose of stereo tracks would make it unusable. But who knows, maybe it will work for what your doing... Try it!

Emeric




[This message has been edited by Emeric (edited 08-24-1999).]
 
BOY HOWDY!
This post really set some oppinions flying.
First of all let me say;
I always use a click track (Metronome) as a first track, along with a guitar or keyboard and vocal scratch track.

These first tracks usually get erased and are replaced by keeper tracks. The click and scratch tracks are there just to set tempo and chord structure of the song.

That having been said. I know of several
excelent drummers that are able to play to a previously recorded rythym section. Click track or not! But I believe the best sounding basic tracks are recorded live, with the drums going down on the first tracks.
The "feel" between the Bass and drums is so important, I'd even keep them with minor glitches, as opposed to a "perfect" timed
mechanical rythym part.

Dom Franco
 
S8, you tend to make some very poor assumptions. First off, why would you even assume RockNGunz is a band? Does it say that anywhere? Strike one. We are merely 2 guys (1 guitar player, and 1... guess what?... DRUMMER) who have been playing together (and apart) for well over a quarter of a century. Neither of us lives in a mid or even small town... we both live in large cities. Strike two. Neither of us has long hair any more, although we both still do have hair. Strike three. No, I don't play a Marshall... does anyone really 'Play a Marshall?'... I dont (acurately speaking) play THROUGH a Marshall, either. Strike Four. And no, I have not been in many bands that did covers... in the days when we did tour (and I dont define playing in bars as touring) we did ALL original... Strike Five. Your guess as to my inability to keep a decent drummer confuses me. Why would I even want a decent drummer when I can have a great one? Rock is a killer drummer... an excellent drummer... the consumate drummer... and since we've been working together for as long as we have, I never worried about having to find another one. I will point out that my accolades for him are not unjustified: He is highly desired and frequently used by other artists during studio work... and guess what? There are way many occasions when He's not the guy recording the first track! Can you believe it? Maybe... you should try to FIND a good drummer... or maybe, you should develop some timing yourself... or maybe: Shall we go on? No... I grow weary of the foolishness... most of it yours.

I have nearly no doubt that the parties constituting RockNGunz (and all of their associates) have more time both on stages AND in the crapper of a recording studio than most people on this BBS have calling themselves musicians... we may be old, but we've lived more than our fair share of living... we all live comfortably now and periodically wonder why the few that didnt make it this far ended up the way they did... although we never speak of it, Im sure that Im not the only one who is glad that Im still here and able to do this.

So, you just keep the tangles out of your long hair, and keep the tubes of your Marshall warm (or are you one of those Solid-state Marshall guys?), and keep doing your covers and writing those tunes hoping to hit the big one... as for us: We've already been there... and now we're just doing what we want to do and liking it.

Relax man... you are strung way too tight.
 
Wow.Pretentious rock "musicians" with sensitive egos.How novel.
 
O.K lets end this...
MY music can be found at www.mp3.com/Mofocult These recordings feature yours truly on vocals, guitar, bass, and drums...
Kindly post the URL of some of your veteran rock wizardry... Oh, I'm sorry, judging from your level of success in the music business I guess I can jaunt down to the mall and buy a copy. Let the listeners decide who sucks!!! 'Till then... keep on living more than your fair share of living.
Awaiting a response...
-S8-N

[This message has been edited by S8-N (edited 08-29-1999).]

[This message has been edited by S8-N (edited 08-29-1999).]
 
mutual (adj): (of a feeling or an action) felt or done by each towards the other

recrimination (n): accusation in response to an accusation from sb else

*

music (n): art of arranging the sounds of voice(s) or instrument(s) or both in a pleasing sequence or combination

Taken from the "Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary".
 
Jesus, you guys - every body knows that you ALWAYS record the ocarina solo first and then the violin section! (Except of course in the wintertime!)

How else are you going to make the guitars play in tune?

... and as for having long hair, my dog has long hair and he's still pretty cool.

... and he can lick parts of his body that ... well never mind that.

The original question of this thread was "Is it possible to record 16 tracks out of 4?" and the answer is "Yes it is."

Is it the preferred method of doing things?

Hell no!

It can be done if you are very patient, experiment a lot, and don't expect it to sound like Bob Clearmountain (or whatever his name is) mastered it.

And yes, those lovable mop-tops from that nasty English seaport recorded what is (arguably) the largest milestone in rock recording history on a four track (actually, two four tracks - they spun in the backing vocals from a separate machine)

And here's poor ol' Dom Franco making a realistic (depending on what the finished sound requirement is) suggestion as to how you might start your quest for 16 out of 4 and then all hell breaks loose.

Here's my suggestion:

Decaffeinated!

foo
 
Sorry guys...I guess you didnt need to hear all of that...So I was venting...Uh, I work a resturaunt job you know... Lots of frustration...
I guess the whole point I was trying to make is that with the music I am into (Heavy, complex, spastic, attention deficit disorderly, death-funk) recording guitar (or any other track) first and then the drums would be...well... my drummer would slap me like a bitch if I even joked about doing it. Sure, live is the way to go but in little home set-ups like mine it just isn't practical. If I had to choose an instrument to lay down first(and I do)...DRUMS.
Thats all I'm saying.
And if anyone mentions Rush again I'll email you a nasty virus...
 
I love RUSH!..........(Limbaugh) that is....

Please no viruses!
Dom Franco
 
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