Blue Groove
New member
AMI TAB Funkenwork V 78... also chandler's 500 series Germanium pre is out...
kojdogg
bollocks redux!
that's a sweet deal if you can swing it. i like the a-designs p-1's, but the only other 500 series pres i've had experience with are api 512's, the osa copies of them and an eisen pre with a purple op-amp.
as for the external compressor, as someone who used plug-ins for years before having any decent hardware compressors i'd say that it depends on how good your plug ins are and how good you are at using them. that said, i have just started to get my hands on some decent outboard compressors (the optical compressors in my langevin dvc, a gyraf 1176, and i've also recently owned (albeit briefly) a tfpro p38 mastering compressor, a drawmer tubestation and some dbx 160x's (great to start with incidentally) and i love using them-- particularly the optical compressors on the dvc, which are easy to use and sound great (it's kind of a felt effect more than a pronounced sound). i'm finding that good hardware compresson while recording can really help the singer deliver a better performance (particularly if it's me as i'm a mediocre singer at best, but i've heard the same thing from far more capable singers i've recorded as well and many more accomplished recording and performing folks will say the same thing).
cavedog101
Well-known member
A lunchbox is a great way to equip your studio in a small footprint. The amount of variety you can get sticking to the API 500 series format is incredible. However, the idea of the Langevin DVC and another excellent mic is a pretty good one. IMHO the Langevin DVC is one of the most underrated mic pres around. As a dual channel with compression and basic EQ it allows you to tailor to most vocalists and these things sound GREAT! Not a bad deal and can be had usually for less than 1.5K.
R
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
Yo Kubeek! Nobody answered your question. A channel strip is a mic preamp that includes EQ and compression. They are usually one or two channels. As far as the original question, $2000 is a tough number, because it is short of the price of some of the top preamps, but far more than you need for any of the better mid-priced pres. I agree any channel worth having is worth having two of. I like stereo recording for many things. If you can stretch the budget to about $2500, for a little color, consider Pendulum MDP-1. For clean, consider Avalon AD2022, about the same price. If you are stuck at $2000, I'd buy a Joemeek twinQ and spend the other $1200 or so on mics, or better A-D conversion, or something. That's just my call.-Good luck with your upgrade-Richie
D
Dot
New member
I'm surprised there's all these recommendations and no one has any idea of what kind of music you're working on. A little info, please. What kind of sound do you want? Hillbilly music, Polka, Jazzyjazz? Gotta link to some of your music?
BTW, what kind of monitoring system do you have?
BTW, what kind of monitoring system do you have?
R
Rick Charming
New member
Yeah, I've noticed 2k is kinda in-between as far as Pre's go.
I'm recording lots of live drums and full bands of all different sorts. I've got a modern rock band on the plate, a rock band featuring acoustic guitar and violin, a folk singer. Very, very broad.
With that in mind.. should I buy lots of channels of something small and then save up for some really nice stuff down the road or should I just say forget it and buy a couple of channels of something really nice? How much of an upgrade would, say, the API's be from the Aardvark pre's (which I have 8 of)? If they're not that huge of an upgrade, maybe buying a 2-channel nice pre would be the way to go. I can say, however, I've always been a huge fan of the sound of analog recording, having my best recordings done in studios with 2 inch tape..
I'm recording lots of live drums and full bands of all different sorts. I've got a modern rock band on the plate, a rock band featuring acoustic guitar and violin, a folk singer. Very, very broad.
With that in mind.. should I buy lots of channels of something small and then save up for some really nice stuff down the road or should I just say forget it and buy a couple of channels of something really nice? How much of an upgrade would, say, the API's be from the Aardvark pre's (which I have 8 of)? If they're not that huge of an upgrade, maybe buying a 2-channel nice pre would be the way to go. I can say, however, I've always been a huge fan of the sound of analog recording, having my best recordings done in studios with 2 inch tape..
pohaku
New member
If you are willing to buy used, you can get some pretty nice gear in the $2000 range. I have a Pendulum MDP-1, bought used off the GS Board for $1800. They don't come up that often, but that's not an unusual price when they do. Used API 512c cards are often between $500 and $600. Purple Audio Biz pres (500 format) seem to go for @$625 or so used (I traded an A-Designs Red Pre for one). Used 6 slot lunchboxes typically run @$350. If you are patient and willing to "shop" used, you can stretch your $$$. I currently have 2 x API 512cs, a Purple Audio Biz, and an A-Designs P-1 in my lunch box for pres. All were bought used (including the lunchbox) with the exception of the P-1 which I got on the introductory special direct from A-Designs. I also have 2 x API 550b EQs and an API 525 compressor in another lunchbox (also purchased used). The format does allow you to mix and match modules to suit your needs and is pretty portable if you are doing some location work.
I had an Aardvark Q10 as well (recently replaced) and largely stopped using the pres, although they were perfectly serviceable, as I found my other pres to be a significant improvement. If you do continue to use the Aardvark as your interface, use the inserts for your outboard pres. If you use the combo XLR/TRS jacks, you will still be running your signal through the Aardvark pres.
I had an Aardvark Q10 as well (recently replaced) and largely stopped using the pres, although they were perfectly serviceable, as I found my other pres to be a significant improvement. If you do continue to use the Aardvark as your interface, use the inserts for your outboard pres. If you use the combo XLR/TRS jacks, you will still be running your signal through the Aardvark pres.
R
Rick Charming
New member
Just out of curiosity.. what did you replace your Aardvark with?
I've got four inserts on the back of the Aardvark. That means I can only run 4 outboard pres at a time, correct?
My math is a little funny sometimes.
I've got four inserts on the back of the Aardvark. That means I can only run 4 outboard pres at a time, correct?
My math is a little funny sometimes.
pohaku
New member
I bit the bullet and replaced it with a Lynx Aurora 8/Lynx AES card for conversion and ITB routing and a Coleman Audio M3PH MkII monitor controller. I now use just my outboard mic pres and DI boxes. I also needed to get a USB Midi controller so I could use my control surface as I lost the Midi port with the Aardvark as well. I use Sonar 6.
Regardless of what anyone says about the Q10, it really did provide a nice bundle of features for the price. It''s too bad that they winked out of existence - I expect that they would have had a bigger user base if they had managed to stick around.
That's correct, if you use the inserts, you only get 4 channels to use. You can of course use the combo XLR/TRS jacks -- they do work, but it sort of defeats the purpose of using other pres.
Regardless of what anyone says about the Q10, it really did provide a nice bundle of features for the price. It''s too bad that they winked out of existence - I expect that they would have had a bigger user base if they had managed to stick around.
That's correct, if you use the inserts, you only get 4 channels to use. You can of course use the combo XLR/TRS jacks -- they do work, but it sort of defeats the purpose of using other pres.
jdier
New member
Wow, it seems like an API stroke-fest!
I'm doing lots of recording with full drum kits and bass at the same time, and then smaller groups of stereo micing and vocals later. I certainly need multiple tracks, however I've decent luck with the Aardvark pre's in the past for large applications.
It seems a lot of you want to know about my mic stable.
MICS:
Cad ICm417's for drum overheads and sometimes strings
AT4033 (acoustic guitar/vocals)
ATM25 (kick)
SM57's (snare/toms/guitar amps)
SM58's (whatever I need)
$2,000 ya'll--do I pick up the lunchbox and a pair of API mic pre's? Do I score a lunchbox, pick up one API mic pre and buy a decent mic? Do I score a ribbon mic? Do I take the entire wad and pick up one or two channels of totally kick ass mic pre?
Good fun..
I had the Aardvark Q10. I had two of them. I do not know the API. I have added RNP's, Older Meek stuff, and Great River preamps. None of them has made as much of a difference in the sound I get than the mics I have added.
I would suggest thinking about some workhorse mics... specifically:
AT RE20 as an upgrade to your kick mic. It is great for other stuff as well. I have used on lead male vocals with some success. Great sound on bass cabs. Really great.
Shure SM7b as a killer male vocal mic and also in the case where you wish you had extra 57/58's. I have also used on snare and guitar cabs with much success.
AKG414 some people love it some do not. I really like it. It sounds like ass on my voice, but that is likely because my voice is terrible. On a good singer, I think it sounds great. I also like it for really intimate acoustic guitar songs.
Senn 421... I had one and had to get another. I use these all the time on drums and guitar cabs. The guitar cab sound is fuller and darker than my usual SM57. Many other people use on toms.
If you are stuck on buying preamps I was happy with the RNP upgrade over my Q10's but note that for me it was a very subtle difference. I may have potatoes growing in my ears but even my Great River was a subtle upgrade.
Nothing has made as much of a SMACK, HOLY COW kind of impression on me besides mic upgrades and additions.
If you buy the API's I am sure you will love them.
Good luck.
jdier
New member
I have also moved away from the Q10, but I seem to remember in my exchanges with the Aardvark team that plugging a line level into the combo jack would bypass the internal pre. I could be wrong, but I would have sworn that this was the case.
Oh, and I replaced my two Q10's with a RME FF800 + an Octomic D... this gives me 12 preamps built in and 4 line ins that I plug my preamps into. I wind up bypassing some of the pres as I have more outboards than 4.
If you ever crash with your Q10's and wish you had something stable, I can feel you. My Q10's were a nightmare stability wise but my FF800 is yet to crash or hickup.
pohaku
New member
True, the difference in sound between preamps is subtle compared to the difference in sound you get with different mics. People sometimes talk about sound differences with preamps as if the heavens opened up and God touched them on the forehead, but while there certainly are audible differences, they aren't quite as cataclysmic as that. If you are really looking for a more substantial change in sound, work with your mics first.
T
thehymns
New member
If I have 2Gs I would buy an API 3124+, amazing preamp.
pohaku
New member
There were several long strings on this subject in RAP a number of years ago with the conclusion, I believe based on info from Aardvark, that you needed to go through the inserts to avoid the preamps. I'll see if i can resurrect those threads. I'm old and the memory isn't what it once was.
My Q10 was always pretty stable. Never really had crashing problems as long as I started a session from boot up. I do admit that it was a very handy package and sounded decent. Still worth using if you are on a PC base (not Vista) and want an inexpensive interface and a bunch of serviceable pres. The Aurora certainly does sound better, but again we are talking about comparativley subtle improvements (even more so than mic pres) compared to using different microphones and fussing with mic placement.
pohaku
New member
OK, here we go -- from a RAP thread many years ago:
mriv...@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in message <news:znr1076185169k@trad>...
> In article <a1aa3576.0402071201.24c41...@posting.google.com> flatpic...@comcast.net writes:
> > On second thought, the insert jacks are right before the converters
> > (according to Aardvark's FAQ) so you could always use break-out cables
> > and go in there. It wouldn't be balanced, but that shouldn't matter if
> > you use short cables.
> That's a sure tip-off that the balanced line inputs are really mic
> inputs in disguise. If you want to be sure to bypass the mic amplifier
> stage, go in to the insert return and don't worry that it's not
> balanced.
I spoke with Aardvark this morning and the line inputs are configured
just as Mike said. They claimed the preamps would not color the sound,
though, and according to them, they've done plenty of testing to prove
it. They said the inserts would work fine for putting the signal right
into the converters, but (of course) the signal would not be balanced
and you wouldn't hear any difference between that and going into the
normal line inputs.
They may be 100% correct, but I'm still going to try it both ways. ;-)
mriv...@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in message <news:znr1076185169k@trad>...
> In article <a1aa3576.0402071201.24c41...@posting.google.com> flatpic...@comcast.net writes:
> > On second thought, the insert jacks are right before the converters
> > (according to Aardvark's FAQ) so you could always use break-out cables
> > and go in there. It wouldn't be balanced, but that shouldn't matter if
> > you use short cables.
> That's a sure tip-off that the balanced line inputs are really mic
> inputs in disguise. If you want to be sure to bypass the mic amplifier
> stage, go in to the insert return and don't worry that it's not
> balanced.
I spoke with Aardvark this morning and the line inputs are configured
just as Mike said. They claimed the preamps would not color the sound,
though, and according to them, they've done plenty of testing to prove
it. They said the inserts would work fine for putting the signal right
into the converters, but (of course) the signal would not be balanced
and you wouldn't hear any difference between that and going into the
normal line inputs.
They may be 100% correct, but I'm still going to try it both ways. ;-)
Simman
Well-known member
If I had the bucks I'd get a telefunken V-78 or if I couldn't find one at least two TAB V-78 modules.
X
xstatic
New member
I can't say for certain on the aardvark, but it is not unccomon for channel strips, consoles and other units to have two seperate I/O paths for inputs. One being the mic preamps, and the other being a line amp. These are often comprised of different parts, but can still share the same control knob. Basically it means that you ahve a line input using a different signal path, but still allows for some gain control for proper level setting.
As for the Aardvark preamps not coloring the sound, this is certainly not true. Regardless of any testing they claim to have done, my ears tell me otherwise.
As for the Aardvark preamps not coloring the sound, this is certainly not true. Regardless of any testing they claim to have done, my ears tell me otherwise.
R
Rick Charming
New member
Was the Lynx Aurora a big step from the Aardvark sound quality wise?
I'm still debating buying some mics and keeping the Aardvark, buying a pre (the API 3124+ does sound like a reasonable buy), or screwing it and upgrading the Aardvark entirely.
What would have the most immediate impact on my pseudo-studio?
I'm still debating buying some mics and keeping the Aardvark, buying a pre (the API 3124+ does sound like a reasonable buy), or screwing it and upgrading the Aardvark entirely.
What would have the most immediate impact on my pseudo-studio?
pohaku
New member
Yes, it was -- for converters - but if you are looking to upgrade and have limited funds, you will get much more bang for the buck upgrading your mics first, followed by your preamps. Upgrading those will result in a much more substantial difference and improvement in your sound than upgrading from the Aardvark to the Lynx. The Lynx is very nice and is a definite improvement over the Ardvark, but we are talking a small incremental improvement by the time we get to converters. In addition, how well you perceive that difference will also be related to your monitoring system. The Aardvark converters are actually pretty decent and IMHO you could live with them for some time if you upgraded other things first.
Here's the $$$ consideration:
Aurora 8 with AES16 card and necessary cables = @$2,570
You will also need a means to monitor your work (you will lose the monitor and headphone out that the Aardvark has):
Central Station = @$400
If you use a midi linked control surface, you will also need a midi controller since you lose that with the Aardvark as well.
MOTU Midilite = @$150
You can buy some very nice microphones and preamps for $3,100.
In my case, I already have some very nice preamps and microphones, so this was really the last major item to upgrade - which, IMHO, is the appropriate priority for it.
Here's the $$$ consideration:
Aurora 8 with AES16 card and necessary cables = @$2,570
You will also need a means to monitor your work (you will lose the monitor and headphone out that the Aardvark has):
Central Station = @$400
If you use a midi linked control surface, you will also need a midi controller since you lose that with the Aardvark as well.
MOTU Midilite = @$150
You can buy some very nice microphones and preamps for $3,100.
In my case, I already have some very nice preamps and microphones, so this was really the last major item to upgrade - which, IMHO, is the appropriate priority for it.
R
Rick Charming
New member
That sounds totally sweet. So it looks like I'm going for some mics first.
Cad ICm417's for drum overheads and sometimes strings
AT4033 (acoustic guitar/vocals)
ATM25 (kick)
SM57's (snare/toms/guitar amps)
SM58's (whatever I need)
Is there anything I should sell? Are the CAD ICM417's decent for overheads? Should I get rid of the ATM25? Is the AT4033 going to do me justice as a variety condensor?
Any ideas?
Cad ICm417's for drum overheads and sometimes strings
AT4033 (acoustic guitar/vocals)
ATM25 (kick)
SM57's (snare/toms/guitar amps)
SM58's (whatever I need)
Is there anything I should sell? Are the CAD ICM417's decent for overheads? Should I get rid of the ATM25? Is the AT4033 going to do me justice as a variety condensor?
Any ideas?