19yr old records entire album on his PC in his room....

[crawdad]

I probably should have linked to my MP3.com page...
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/426/band_of_apathetics.html

there are full songs on there....

Thats a great idea! Now--you see that little button that says edit under your first post? Go put that new link where the old one was. Ah! Better.

Well, at least we're talking now. Dug the gear list. Thats the kind of thing people dig talking about around here. See, were just like you--a bunch of home recording guys sittin' around talking about the how to's and whys and all that stuff. We're all hopelessly addicted to music and recording. Over time, little ettiquettes build up and we kinda stick with that stuff.

The first music post I did here, some guy basically told me to go fuck myself, but it got a whole lot better. I stuck around, learned the mores of the island, and I've made a bunch of good friends here. You will too. Best bet is to post one song at a time--a whole album is way too much for anyone to invest in in one sitting, you know? Then, check out some good people here, like Macle, Erland, Lt. Bob, ChrisHarris, Sluice, B. Sabbath, Flat-9, TripleM, Guernica, Jamal...theres many many more...drop some comments...reciprocate...joke around...call Crawdad a fucking asshole (an ancient asshole--he'd like that!). It will become your favorite place on the net. Just don't listen to any of my old garbage--especially the HRC stuff!!

See, we do this thing every once in a while where we do a "challenge". Somebody comes up with an idea--record a song in 1.5 hours or do a song using no effects, EQ, compression, etc. Then we all post what we came up with for fun. Its always interesting.

Again--sincerely--welcome to the board. You got some chops there. If I'd heard you when I was 19, I would have quit music! So there!

 

[dctalkdotnet]

Again--sincerely--welcome to the board. You got some chops there. If I'd heard you when I was 19, I would have quit music! So there!

sweet. Thanks for the welcome...

 

[Badger]

i live in a van down by the river.......

Is there room enought to park my truck there?

 

[crawdad]

sweet. Thanks for the welcome...Crawdad, you ancient asshole!

Now thats the way to do it!

 

[W.I.S.C.]

A Thousand Lies-Very good sound.Vox is a little shakey in the first line and gets better as it goes along.Nice progression.Nice song.This is why there are a thousand bands like with this sound.The lead gets real low in the end in a real uncomfortable manner.That volume drop sounds cheesey.I'm nitpicking of course.A little long...filler?Should not be the first song in the list on your mp3 site.
Fade-A Weird bass thing happening,and a timing issue when the heavy part breaks in.The guitar sound is bad when it breaks in harder.Too mid range-ey.Vocals aren't bad but are not sitting in the mix as well as the prev song.Not bad guitar work.Reminds me of Bush.Needs a better mix.Good hook.
Guardian Angel-Alot of music out there like this.The recording is good.Best out of the three.Mix is nice and the hook is groovey.You overall 'band' sound is a little unremarkable.Jump on the band wagon now cuz this could sell like free beer.

 

[Llarion]

Welcome to the forum! Hope the hazing doesn't chase you off! Just remember that this is VERY MUCH not the MP3.com boards and you'll do fine. (former MP3 board Spam™/reviewer veteran speaking)

You've done a nice job, I'm listening to A Thousand Lies, and my only comment is that the vox seem just a smidge 'verb heavy, and I'm not a huge fan of one of the rhythm guitar tone choices, (the muffly one), but you've got great chops and a good songwriting sensibility. Your voice is very appropriate for this genre, I envy it.

Cheers!
Phil "Llarion: The Jazzinator" Traynor
www.llarion.com

 

[dctalkdotnet]

thanks for the input guys

 

[TripleM]

Listened to "Thousand Lies." I thought the recording was pretty good. I liked the guitars - both the parts and the tone on them. Good singing. The songwriting was ok, but I didn't flip or anything.

Little vocal pops at :21 and :28 - that little crackle that comes when you try to start singing and have "dry-mouth". I think those could be easily edited out. Always good to have a glass of water handy when tracking vocals. The harmonies around 2:05 could be a little tighter.

How did you compress the vocals? It seemed fairly heavy, but I'm not sure.

My thoughts. Trip...

 

[sonusman]

My ears hurt.

Sounds like a home recording using emulators and drum samples. Stiff feel with a "sameness" to all the tones.

The song writing is decent. If you learn to write a hook, you will get signed!

Ed

 

[TripleM]

...call Crawdad a fucking asshole...

Everybody else here does.

hehehe

 

[Pedullist]

Sounds like a home recording using emulators and drum samples.

Duh! What could be the cause? Hmmmmmmm......because it is a homerecording?! LOL Sometimes I have no idea why you keep reviewing our homerecorded music (preferably with fake drums), Ed....you never seem to like it anyway...seems like a considerable loss of your valuable time to me (no sarcasm intended....don't get me wrong, I'm just puzzled by your way of 'reviewing' sometimes)

Btw Ed, I enjoyed your listening lessons, and your massive recording tips thread. Very helpful, and fun

Anyway....

Decent recording dctalkdotnet...pretty good! Most of what I wanted to say, has already been said.

And Crawdad, you fuckin' ancient asshole...you forgot my name in your list...and what's worse....your own name!

 

[dctalkdotnet]

My ears hurt.

Sounds like a home recording using emulators and drum samples. Stiff feel with a "sameness" to all the tones.

The song writing is decent. If you learn to write a hook, you will get signed!

Ed

so is this constructive criticism??? If so, then I must have missed something...

thanks to everyone who gave me something to think about, whether you like the music or not! I realize my style is defintely not what most people like around here, so I'm not really expecting lots of fans. However, I do appreciate the feedback as far as recording/producing/etc goes....

 

[sonusman]

hey guys... I finished an entire album's worth of work. I recorded it all on my computer at home... I played and programmed all the instruments and sounds and vocals.... I think it's pretty good for a 19yr old... feedback would be nice...

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/426/band_of_apathetics.html
( )

I don't see ANYWHERE is this post where you ask for "constructive critisism".

I see "feedback would be nice". I gave feedback.

I even gave you somewhat of a compliment.

What more can I say about your produciton. It is all sample based. The drums sound sterile and boring and stiff. I guess you can try automation in the eq and volumes to try to emulate what a real drum kit would sound like, but it isn't going to sound the same as a real kit still. In addition, you can try "groove quantizing" the drum parts, but that STILL doesn't sound like how a real drummer would sound. In the end, you are never going to fool me on it ever sounding like a real drummer.

The bass tone was about the best sounding thing on these demo's.

The guitar had far too much midrange presense. Wait till you try to remove that. Then they will sound too scooped out in the mids. That is the way it goes with emulators. I have a JStation, and while I think it sounds a little better than the POD, it STILL is never going to sound like a real amp mic'ed up.

The vocals are harsh and effected far too much. Lay off the autotune a bit and let it sound a little "messy".

Get some hooks and you could get signed. This being "not bad for 19 year old" shit is a sure sign that you still don't believe in what you are doing. Without sincerity and conviction, you aren't going anywhere fast in this business. You are young enough to change that.

The reason I review and make comments about "fake drums" and "emulators" is because I feel I am the balance concerning these things. Shit, I remember once Blue Bear Sound tried to "fool" me with two different mp3's, one with V Drums, and the other with real drums. He really thought I wouldn't be able to tell the difference!!! LOL. I responded to his email REALLY fast with the answer to which was which, and he was blown away that it was that obvious.

So I make these comments because I like to remind you guys that it IS that obvious, and most of you are a far cry from engineering something worthwhile. Samples make it easy to produce a product that sounds somewhat okay. But it sound phoney. One you all try to mic up a real kit, and to deal with a whole production where the only thing that was DI'ed was possibly the bass guitar, you start to appreciate just how far away from that "pro sound" you really are. I see post after post of how crap sounds "pro", and I feel the need to point it out, because it seems that this "clinic" is full of "I will give your shitty production nice comments if you give my shitty production nice comments". I see little "truth" being shared. From time to time, yes, guys will comment, but it seems that something has to be REALLY bad, or the original poster has to have some displayed "attitude" to get negative feedback.

You want constructive critisism dood? Okay. Get a fucking real drummer and mic up an amp and dump all the plugin crap that puts the veil over your sound. If you have so little respect for music that you would release a CD that sound like "band in a box" like this, you have little future. You have some talent but I have this feeling that you are fooling yourself into thinking this course is "just as good" as the "real thing".



Ed

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Re: Re: 19yr old records entire album on his PC in his room....

Shit, I remember once Blue Bear Sound tried to "fool" me with two different mp3's, one with V Drums, and the other with real drums. He really thought I wouldn't be able to tell the difference!!! LOL. I responded to his email REALLY fast with the answer to which was which, and he was blown away that it was that obvious.

True!

Ed's got ears - and knows his shit... you'd do well to listen what he has to say!

 

[Son of Mixerman]

so is this constructive criticism??? If so, then I must have missed something...

thanks to everyone who gave me something to think about, whether you like the music or not! I realize my style is defintely not what most people like around here, so I'm not really expecting lots of fans. However, I do appreciate the feedback as far as recording/producing/etc goes....

I knew that was coming. I havent listened to it yet but... I will when I get a chance. The last time I listened I commented on someones stuff in the clinic I was honest and blunt.

Just the way you describe the process tell me that your music is basically a computer program. Ive been there so Im pretty familiar with whats its going to sound like..I can post my own music and sonusman would say probably the same thing.

Im going to get hate mail for this Im sure. One of the biggest pitfalls of PC recording is the tendancy to be drawn into the PC as though it were a real band in a box. Drum machines will always cause your music to sound...stiff. Overly repetitive and boring. Emulations lack life. Song structure is highly important. Ive written some of the most repetitive stuff and I always cringe when I listen to it.

If sonusman says you have potential then take his advice and move to the next level of song writing, recording and production. Ed is one who challenges you to do better than what you have done. He reminds me of a father who pushes you because of your potential instead of telling you to quit because you suck. Like the Oracle in the Matrix, tells you what you need to hear...the difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

Don't listen to me though... I suck!
See if there are any similarities.. this was recorded in a bedroom too.
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1216&alid=-1

SoMm

 

[crawdad]

Re: Re: 19yr old records entire album on his PC in his room....

So I make these comments because I like to remind you guys that it IS that obvious, and most of you are a far cry from engineering something worthwhile. Samples make it easy to produce a product that sounds somewhat okay. But it sound phoney. One you all try to mic up a real kit, and to deal with a whole production where the only thing that was DI'ed was possibly the bass guitar, you start to appreciate just how far away from that "pro sound" you really are. I see post after post of how crap sounds "pro", and I feel the need to point it out, because it seems that this "clinic" is full of "I will give your shitty production nice comments if you give my shitty production nice comments". I see little "truth" being shared. From time to time, yes, guys will comment, but it seems that something has to be REALLY bad, or the original poster has to have some displayed "attitude" to get negative feedback.
Ed

I wouldn't comment on this, except that is SO TRUE, I just have to laugh--and the laughter starts at myself! Personally, I have no delusions about my own recordings being "pro". As soon as I play the first cut of Jackson Brownes new record, the truth sinks in instantly. Everything is better. Drums are definitely real--vocal sits so perfectly with no hyped areas, guitars have a dimension in the spatial plane--even the direct bass sounds awesome compared to my efforts.

All I hope for is to get a demo that represents the song. As for real drums--in my room, with my drums and percussion "skills", its nightmare numero uno. After having tried it, I have new respect for the engineeers that make it happen--and the players too. I know what pro sounds like, and I ain't there yet. I have recorded with pros in state of the art studios and I am forever spoiled! I have no way to duplicate their facility, equipment, ears or rooms.

But, you know, I would venture to guess that many of the people who post in the clinic have never set foot in a major studio. Which brings me to my point. Most of us are hobbyists who enjoy recording and writing and performing. I'm sure you know that. We are all in bedroom land or garage land. I don't think I've ever labeled anything PRO, though I have heard some pretty fine efforts here. What you say, Ed, puts it all into a perspective which is needed.

I think the QUEST for the home recordist is to see how close to the mark one can come with the DAW and an assortment of gear and instruments. We all know there are barriers at this level. The question is always "how good can I get it in this room, with this equipment". I don't even want to be called pro. Just call me a work in progress.

 

[doc_drop]

Grain of salt...

I listened, and I was very impressed. There is certainly some truth to what "others" have said, but all in all, that is some very impressive music. It is impossible to sound like a full band recorded with a full studio in the bedroom. But you can still make some great music, and I think you did a REALLY good job with what you have.

One thing that we all have to keep in mind is that criticism is part of the game. Listen to it, but try not to get the ego involved. Take the grain of truth, and ignore the rest. If the music you make is true to what you want it to be, then it will have power. I'm lucky, I don't plan on ever making any money with my music. I don't care if some people don't like it. Every once in a while someone I respect will tell me they think it is fantastic. That is more than enough for me, especially if that person is cute and female...

Hang in there. You have a LOT of talent!!!!

 

[malcolm123]

Drum Machines my .02

Leave the drum machines, softsynths, etc for ... what ?

Most Hip Hop and Most R&B, techno.
Although some do incorporate a real drummer, a real Bass, A real Guitar.

for instance, There is a Local Group that I am a part of that plays just about anything from Steely Dan to C-murder. LOL
I dont play instrument the first, but I do work the sound for live shows and they value my opinion as far as arrangements and what each member is playing

I have a studio. I guess just above what you would called bedroom but it was built with the intention of a semi-controlled environment. Far from a Mastering House controlled room, But I wouldnt dare attempt to record the band ( 5 piece ). I have all the hardware it would take to track everything they did seperately, but I am lacking one of the main elements,, MICS

I wouldnt be able to mic the drummer nor the cabinets.
The would laugh at me if I suggested they come record and use any of my drum machines without their precious Drummer.

He and the bass player make the band. Trust me!!

Malcolm

 

[dctalkdotnet]

Re: Re: Re: 19yr old records entire album on his PC in his room....

To sonusman: Thanks for the reply. I got a lot more out of your 2nd post then your first. I had a great reply to it, but then crawdad stole some words out of my mouth....

Personally, I have no delusions about my own recordings being "pro"..... All I hope for is to get a demo that represents the song.... I have recorded with pros in state of the art studios and I am forever spoiled! I have no way to duplicate their facility, equipment, ears or rooms.

But, you know, I would venture to guess that many of the people who post in the clinic have never set foot in a major studio. Which brings me to my point. Most of us are hobbyists who enjoy recording and writing and performing. I'm sure you know that. We are all in bedroom land or garage land. I don't think I've ever labeled anything PRO, though I have heard some pretty fine efforts here. What you say, Ed, puts it all into a perspective which is needed.

I think the QUEST for the home recordist is to see how close to the mark one can come with the DAW and an assortment of gear and instruments. We all know there are barriers at this level. The question is always "how good can I get it in this room, with this equipment". I don't even want to be called pro. Just call me a work in progress.

And just to continue.... the biggest thing for me is $$$$$$$. I don't have enough money to buy nice enough equipment (including a drum set) to make a "pro" CD. That is why I am selling my CDs (for only $10). If i can make some money from what i've done so far I can invest in better equipment. I would love to be in a nice studio with a full band... but I work with what I have.

I have songs in my head and I'm doing my best to make them come to life. I have grown some artistically already in that I use drum samples and literally program every drum piece that you hear, rather than using loops like I used to. Everything else is me not samples. I play the bass, I play the guitars, i sing the vocals, i play the keyboard for strings stuff... if I had a drum set and a nice way to record them, I promise you that's what I would do!! If I had a Marshall JCM 2000 DSL stack to record instead of using the J-Station for my guitar, trust me I would use it! And in fact I have used a mic'ed guitar for some tracks, but it has been combo amps. IMO, the J-station sounds better than those amps, so that's what I use.

But I feel like I'm trying to prove my artistic integrity here or something, so I'll shut up. But honestly if you don't respect me that's fine. I enjoy it and in fact, a few people do enjoy the music I make.

Thanks again for useful negative and positive feedback. I'm taking notes

 

[malcolm123]

Re: Re: Re: Re: 19yr old records entire album on his PC in his room....

To sonusman: Thanks for the reply. I got a lot more out of your 2nd post then your first. I had a great reply to it, but then crawdad stole some words out of my mouth....



And just to continue.... the biggest thing for me is $$$$$$$. I don't have enough money to buy nice enough equipment (including a drum set) to make a "pro" CD. That is why I am selling my CDs (for only $10). If i can make some money from what i've done so far I can invest in better equipment. I would love to be in a nice studio with a full band... but I work with what I have.

I have songs in my head and I'm doing my best to make them come to life. I have grown some artistically already in that I use drum samples and literally program every drum piece that you hear, rather than using loops like I used to. Everything else is me not samples. I play the bass, I play the guitars, i sing the vocals, i play the keyboard for strings stuff... if I had a drum set and a nice way to record them, I promise you that's what I would do!! If I had a Marshall JCM 2000 DSL stack to record instead of using the J-Station for my guitar, trust me I would use it! And in fact I have used a mic'ed guitar for some tracks, but it has been combo amps. IMO, the J-station sounds better than those amps, so that's what I use.

But I feel like I'm trying to prove my artistic integrity here or something, so I'll shut up. But honestly if you don't respect me that's fine. I enjoy it and in fact, a few people do enjoy the music I make.

Thanks again for useful negative and positive feedback. I'm taking notes

Man your music is cool. I think what they are trying to tell you is that you have talent, possibly enough talent to maybe take your skills out and get or hire a drummer and record your material professionally. Man when these guys on these forums come at you and shhot your stuff down, then at the same time tell you that you could be sigened if you do this or that, Listen.
In all honesty you never really know who the other person or who may be poppin here to listen for unsigned raw talent. For all we really know, Sonousman may be commenting on your song from a executive suite up in Columbia Records or some sh@t.

Malcolm