10,000 Dollars For Gear What Do I Get?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jesuslovesyou
  • Start date Start date
Jesuslovesyou said:
I emailed them and havent got a response yet, I'm interested if they email back otherwise I will probably just go for the self build. As far as bass traps and recording studio soundproofing I'm not going to be doing any of that. Really I will be focusing on keyboards, samplers, micing a marshall stack, and getting some drum tracks, my house's sound is garbage but I really dont care.
I like that wierd sound anyway. Keep pumping out the advice folks good readin :D
Click to expand...

Do some more research regarding acoustics and such before you do anything. Seriously. 10 Grand is a good bit of cash and you should be able to get a great setup with that, but if you use up all you're money and find you've overlooked an important area, you will be sorry. You may not actually need to spend 3 grand just on a computer. Particularly if you build your own, you should be able to spec out a great system for around 1000 to 1500 dollars. Yes, you can spend twice as much money and get 10% more processing power, but if I was putting together a recording setup on that budget I'd rather invest that same money in quality mics, pres, converters and monitors. And as Panda advised, give a second thought to room acoustics as well. What good is quality gear when you can't get your mix good because of the room?
 
Since it seems like you're going for the PC based approach...

I'd say get the Akai MPD16 or MPD24 (or a trigger finger), and buy GURU, it's an mpc-style software drumcomputer, read good things about that.


I also strongly suggest you check out the M-Audio Axion range, it has keys (semi-weighted) AND pads so that's pretty cool too.


Other than that...do you want to use a PC so badly? I don't want to start any mac-pc riots here, but if you're gonna spend 3000 you might wanna look into an Apple system.... always solid and reliable.


And 1tb HDD space? WHY?!


just my 2 cents

Mo-Kay
 
Just go extreme!!! JUST GO ABSOLUTELY NUTS!!!

And 1tb HDD space? WHY?!
Click to expand...

Well I don't really need that. I was just going to the extreme end to see how much bang for the buck i could get on memory. I'm still in research stage and trying to find specs on the basic computer. Really, I want a quality computer, soundcard, monitors, and programs first. Then I can look into preamps, mics, etc.

You may not actually need to spend 3 grand just on a computer. Particularly if you build your own, you should be able to spec out a great system for around 1000 to 1500 dollars. Yes, you can spend twice as much money and get 10% more processing power, but if I was putting together a recording setup on that budget I'd rather invest that same money in quality mics, pres, converters and monitors.
Click to expand...

I am definately thinking along this line also. I know a computer tweak who would be helping me build, and I was thinking after talking things over with him I could cut down on the cpu, ram, memory etc., and get something that isn't so much overkill. One thing I don't understand is the balance between cpu power and ram, like if I have a high end cpu and 2 gigs ram, does that mean the computer's producitively is mostly related to the high power of the cpu or the ram limitations? Also, if a lower end cpu and 4 gigs of ram would that balance to a lot more power in the end?

Who said anything about soundproofing? This is to make you room a suitable mixing space so that your mixes translate well onto all systems.
Click to expand...

Well this is a good idea, one thing is I live with my dad and he is a musician also and lets me do whatever here, but there are some house adjustments I would do like just throw everything out and make a studio out of the whole house that he wont go for. So I will study up on that stuff after I get my basic setup and get quality recording possible.

I'd say get the Akai MPD16 or MPD24 (or a trigger finger), and buy GURU, it's an mpc-style software drumcomputer, read good things about that.


I also strongly suggest you check out the M-Audio Axion range, it has keys (semi-weighted) AND pads so that's pretty cool too.
Click to expand...

I'm definately going to invest right away in a keyboard and pad controller. I have heard of GURU but not a lot of people seem to be using it. It seems the mpc is a bit outdated with what you can do with software, but I am also looking into one of those also.

As far as mic's i just got a bunch of garbage ones. An sm-57, carvin bright sounding mic, seinbrengerhouser whatever low end rumble sounding mic, a set of garbage drum mics, an mxl condenser, and some other random garage sale specialties.

I know with the right preamps and compression etc. I can make these sound good so I will invest in those things before new mic's. Am definately going to go for a few rack pieces to begin with relatively soon.

Thanks for the advice everyone :D
 
Jesuslovesyou said:
Well this is a good idea, one thing is I live with my dad and he is a musician also and lets me do whatever here, but there are some house adjustments I would do like just throw everything out and make a studio out of the whole house that he wont go for. So I will study up on that stuff after I get my basic setup and get quality recording possible.
Click to expand...

The point is, if you serious about this of course, that the room treatment of a room is as vital a part of what is required to get quality recording as the gear itself.

Acoustically treating a room need not require "house adjustments" - it involves adding basstraps and diffusors and the like. All of which are non-strucxtural changes and are non-permanent.

If it were me, (and it WAS at one point), I would consider the room treatment right away. Of course it is not as sexy as the gear, but it is AS important, and is not free, hence why you should consider it now.

If you're not yanking our chains, that is.
 
ok basstraps and diffusors, i haven't studied the physics of soundtrapping very much at all, so you can fill me in on some info you got. I mean a lot of my music will be done on the computer meaning, im going to get a lot of midi controllers etc, so there is going to be electronic sheen on things and that warm acoustic guitar tone won't be high on the list of needs for me right away. Keeping noise and bad room sounds out of mics will be important, but thats going to be second on the budget. What do you suggest specifically, do you want room dimensions and instrument setups?
 
Jesuslovesyou said:
ok basstraps and diffusors, i haven't studied the physics of soundtrapping very much at all, so you can fill me in on some info you got. I mean a lot of my music will be done on the computer meaning, im going to get a lot of midi controllers etc, so there is going to be electronic sheen on things and that warm acoustic guitar tone won't be high on the list of needs for me right away. Keeping noise and bad room sounds out of mics will be important, but thats going to be second on the budget. What do you suggest specifically, do you want room dimensions and instrument setups?
Click to expand...
The acoustic treatment is moree for you control room than anything else. Even though are using a computer with MIDI you still need a good room to work in. Acoustic treatment is not linked to sound isolation. It's about making your room into a decent workable miing/reecording space. Room dimentions would be good. What would be even better is if you draw up a detail, and relatively to scale, plan of your room on paint or whatever. Then we can show you how to set it up. In order of importance in my opinion:
  • Acoustic treatment of your control room(absorbtion, and possibly diffusion)
  • Acoustic treatment of your tracking room (if not the same room as control)
  • instruments/playing ability
  • mics
  • monitors
  • preamps
  • AD/DA converter
  • Software
  • computer
  • And lastly MIDI gear
(have i missed anything?)
Even though you don't plan on recording instruments right away, you still have it on your agenda and therefore it's extremely important. MIDI doesn't matter 'cause all the sounds can be changed on the computer. You have to understand how important Acoustic treatment is. Every room has certain peaks and nulls in the frequency response due to standing waves. Pic one is a standard sine wave like a sound wave, as it travels around the room it hits walls and reflects back on itself, this occasionally causes it to do number 2, which basically cancels it out to make 3. So at certain frequencies around the room certain frequencies are loud or quieter than others. These can be dramatic differences and that screws with how you hear the music. So you mix it and get it to sound great in your room. Then you take it elsewhere and it sounds awful due to the different frequency response of each room. If you have a room with a reasonably flat frequency response then your mixes are a lot more likely to sound good in any room. The main problem in most rooms tends to be in the bass response. These can be so much of a problem that when a bass instrument is played, you can't really tell when it's changing notes. Ok simple way to show you what i'm saying. Put on some music quite loud and walk towards a corner of your room, you will notice that as you get closer the bassier the sound gets, especially right in the corner. This is why you treat your corners with bass traps. Now reasons for the broadband absorbers is similar, but it is also for reflections on the side walls screwing with your stereo imaging. Check the second pic. The sound bounces around the room and you can't really tell where it's coming from. Also all the waves are cancelling etc so absorbtion on your first reflection points means a lot less of the noise from the left speaker will get into your right ear and vice versa, and with the back wall covered, the rest of the noise will be absorbed. There is also noise from the backs of you speakers which is mostly bass that can cause problems, but these problems are nowhere near as bad as from the front so don't need as much attension, if any. Hope this explains the need for acoustic treatment
 

Attachments

  • need for acoustic treatment.webp
    need for acoustic treatment.webp
    2.9 KB · Views: 43
  • sound bouncing around room.webp
    sound bouncing around room.webp
    6.8 KB · Views: 37
good explaination

Ok that really helps a lot. That explains why when I have people over and we jam when its more than 2 people it sounds like garbage because noone can hear any definition in the notes and just turns it up. Also, why its hard to get recordings mixed well. Really I've used a lot of hit and miss stuff just mixing things and playing them in different cd players and tape decks, so I understand how to work around some of that by ear. Yes definately on your list of importance, the main lack is that sound proofing. The main issue is I have all my instruments in a living room piled all over the place, i got a marshall stack, carvin, 2 bass amps, 2 pa systems, drumset, various mics instruments cables all just sitting there mostly for live use. To arrange things specific to a quality recording setup will be next to impossible because our house doesnt have room separation at all, the downstairs where everything is is all connected. When I talk to my dad I'll work on getting the room specs, on one hand I want to hear what you have to say, but on the other i might not go through with any of your suggestions so don't spend a lot of time working all this out.



Acoustic treatment of your control room(absorbtion, and possibly diffusion)
Acoustic treatment of your tracking room (if not the same room as control)
Click to expand...

1. Got nothing

instruments/playing ability
Click to expand...

2. Improvisational Genius is a 9, songwriting is not a honed craft, mostly just making up wierd noises and beats. Although I have been growing into working those things into song type vehicles, just takes time to get things earfriendly and less self indulgent.

mics
Click to expand...

3. workable I would think with every other piece of gear in place, but some new pieces are needed for specifically bass drum and vocals.

monitors
Click to expand...

4. can drop 1,000 on them in the future but hopefully looking for a cheaper solution
preamps
Click to expand...

5. want to get a art mpa gold digital, aphex aural exciter, and a dbx 160 for analogue bass outboard, into the emu 1820m possibly. Can you get a mixer and run that stuff through an effects send and put it over all inputs? I think I would like just 4 basic mid grade effects before the signal goes in if there isnt any hiss.

Also, UAD-1 chip in the computer cheaper probably works.


AD/DA converter
Click to expand...

The 1820m emu deal says it has them?

Software

Sonar 5, Guru, Battery 2, Acid Pro 7, some keyboard synths,

VEGAS 6 DONT FORGET MOVIE MAKING EQUIPMENT IN THE LIST BUDDY!!!
computer
Click to expand...

Athlon X2 3800-4800+ Maybe a better solution is possible but seems to make things flow well
2-4 gigs ram, 2 fine for what i do? 4 better for the money?
2 lightscribe cd/dvd players.
case monitor mobo i dont know
I want like 4 firewire and 8 usb in the front of the case somehow

And lastly MIDI gear
Click to expand...

Korg Padkontrol, UFC 61 note midi keyboard, possible filter of somekind that i can turn knobs on something.
Something that works with the programs i listed.

Also I will be wanting to do video collage stuff on Vegas six, so I need a video editing friendly video camera and a few things that work with that.

Thanks a lot I'll have specs after you give me another reply thanks
 
And remember the most important thing....Quality over quantity :)

gear that is ;)
 
Jesuslovesyou said:
hey put an entire idea in a suggestion for me please
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ, you want us to come over and hold your dick while you hwizz, too? And shake it off?

there are forums here for asking the type of questions, but for what you want to do, you have to invest some work yourself.
Go to the studio Deisng forums here - they'll answer questions for you. on acoustic treatments.
 
fraserhutch said:
Jesus Christ, you want us to come over and hold your dick while you hwizz, too? And shake it off?

there are forums here for asking the type of questions, but for what you want to do, you have to invest some work yourself.
Go to the studio Deisng forums here - they'll answer questions for you. on acoustic treatments.
Click to expand...

I was just gonna say something on this too...

You'd think people would notice that people asking for help with one piece of equipment don't really get a response, unless they've done their homework... Just imagine the odds of getting help with an entire setup.... Oh well.. I suppose I've been guilty of leeching advice, just like most people around here... Cassera Serra Serra :D
 
fraserhutch said:
Jesus Christ, you want us to come over and hold your dick while you hwizz, too? And shake it off?
Click to expand...
Is that an offer? How much?
 
Go here, get this. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/O2R96V2DigitalMixer?sku=630171
With the remaining money buy an SM7, AT4050 and you are done.

Now if you really want to go the Sonar route and UAD1, move off the AMD motherboard and go to an Intel based one. It's not better but it’s more compatible. The road is covered with the bloody corpses of the people who fought the UAD error 21 issue on AMD hardware.

Finally, forget all of the AD/DA boxes you listed. Get a Lynx Aurora 8 for $2000 and life will be much better, as will be your mixes. The boxes you mention are very low end consumer grade products.

Here is what I recommend if you're attached to Sonar.

-Aurora 8 for 8 channels of high end conversion $1895 is the cheapest I’ve seen. $675 for the interface card, - Lynx AES16.
-Build or have someone build 8 channels of Seventh Circle preamps for you. Around $3000
-UAD1 card for sure - Get the LA2A, Fairchild, 1176, Precision EQ and Limiter.
-Same mics as above, add 2 Oktava MC012s, maybe
-I am not crazy about any of the drumpads you mention, I have used two of them and to tell you the truth its easier using a midi keyboard to program drums. The MPC would be my choice unless you are running out of cash.
-Monitors, I would recommend the Event ASP8s.
-Headphone preamp
-Patchbay
-Sonar
-Computer

That's about 10k, and you could do an album with this set up. In fact I have all of this including Sonar and if I had it to do over, I would go the Yamaha route and get to making music instead of spending years on learning how to make various components work together.

That's my 2 cents.
 
Listen to pandamonk, he's giving good advice.

There's no point in buying $10K in gear and using it in an untreated room. You'll get a much better sound and MUCH better mixes.
studiomaster showed me this site (which I gave him rep points for ;) )
http://www.ethanwiner.com/Acoustics.html

There's a lot of info there to take in but its a good read and It'll give you a much better understanding of how acoustics can affect a room.

Rep points to pandamonk too.
 
Middleman said:
Now if you really want to go the Sonar route and UAD1, move off the AMD motherboard and go to an Intel based one. It's not better but it’s more compatible.
Click to expand...
NOT TRUE!!!! Intel is in no way more compatible witrh anything than AMD.

I would highly advise going AMD over intel. More CPU power for your $$$, easy to overclock if that's your thing. All the Athlon64 CPUs have on die memory controllers and they run MUCH cooler. I would never use passive cooling on an intel system, but easily would on an AMD. Passive cooling = less noise.

While youre there you might as well buy a passively cooled power supply and video cooler. With RAM, the more the merrier but my advice hard drive wise, get a Western Digital Raptor 36Gb 10,000 RPM SATA to run your OS off and get 2 Seagate 500Gb SATA II w/16MB cache drives and run the in RAID1 (also called "mirroring"). Raid1 Writes the same data to 2 disks so that if one fails, you have a backup.
 
Enchilada said:
NOT TRUE!!!! Intel is in no way more compatible witrh anything than AMD.

I would highly advise going AMD over intel. More CPU power for your $$$, easy to overclock if that's your thing. All the Athlon64 CPUs have on die memory controllers and they run MUCH cooler. I would never use passive cooling on an intel system, but easily would on an AMD. Passive cooling = less noise.

While youre there you might as well buy a passively cooled power supply and video cooler. With RAM, the more the merrier but my advice hard drive wise, get a Western Digital Raptor 36Gb 10,000 RPM SATA to run your OS off and get 2 Seagate 500Gb SATA II w/16MB cache drives and run the in RAID1 (also called "mirroring"). Raid1 Writes the same data to 2 disks so that if one fails, you have a backup.
Click to expand...

My print catalog says this is really 2999.00... That case is REALLY cool and expensive as well.. :D

http://www.fullcompass.com/Products/pages/SKU--88665/index.html
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top