1/4" Drum Snake?

[JacobShah]

Sorry everyone, I didn't know exactly where to post this, so.. oh, well! I have a Tascam FW-1082, which has 4 XLR ins and 4 1/4" ins after that. I've been trying to start some drum recording here lately and am planning on using about 7 different mics overall. The overhead condensers of course will of course have to have phantom power, but if I bought something like a Hosa PXF-805, which is a xlr to 1/4" 8 channel snake. Would there be a huge quality difference? As far as XLR to 1/4"? Or is it better to sticking to individual XLR cables? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

 

[Wish]

XLR will usually be better as it is a balanced signal so it does a better job of shielding noise. This is assuming that the 1/4" inch connections are unbalanced on the snake.

It may be more convenient to run the snake vs. multiple cables and the difference between balanced and non-balanced could be small depending on the length of the cable run. So there also is that to consider.

I don't think you would lose much by using a short snake.

How critical is the recording? That is the question to answer.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Hold the horses, please. From what I can get reading the specs on an FW1082, it's an interface/controller with 4 mic ins and 4 *line* ins. If you want to use those line ins, you need 4 channels of mic preamp. That will produce a *very* weak signal, and unbalancing it will suck a little more gain, making the situation worse. You can't just plug mics into line level inputs.-Richie

 

[JacobShah]

I actually already have taken preamps taken care of, because I'm running out of the direct outs of my 8 channel analogue board.(which has some decent preamps)
It is for a praise & worship project. I'm going in to record a youth group to raise some money. Pretty much have everything covered but drums. So I would like to get a decent sound for them. Probably going to be recording @ 192k, cause they want more of a polished "studio" sound than a live sound.

 

[mattr]

...

So you've already purchased the snake (which is 8 XLR to 8 1/4" jack), and are planning on using it to carry mic signals to the preamps on the mixer?

Using balanced 1/4" TRS jacks should be no different to using normal balanced 3-pin XLR, just make sure that the 1/4" inputs on the mixer are balanced don't bypass the preamps.

EDIT: Oh, did you mean you were going to use it from the mixer to the interface? Either way, just make sure you're feeding everything with the correct signal levels and try to keep balanced connections where possible.

Even some of the cheapest of multicores/snakes (though I wouldn't go for the very cheapest) are of sufficient quality and have enough shielding for any but the most demanding applications... you don't need to worry about crosstalk. Certainly no worries at all with a Hosa cable.

Probably going to be recording @ 192k, cause they want more of a polished "studio" sound than a live sound.

Tee hee ... don't bother. Stick at 44.1kHz and save your drive space for something other than useless bits.

 

[philbagg]

Tee hee ... don't bother. Stick at 44.1kHz and save your drive space for something other than useless bits.

I agree with this. Unless they're dogs

mattr's right about the mattr at hand

I'm sorry

PS: I've a quarter inch snake

 

[Richard Monroe]

Mattr and company are right. Deep bit depth will not give you "polished sound". A lot of those big time studios recorded classic hits at 16bit/44.1kHz. Anyway- OK, you got preamps. Yes, the snake will unbalance the signal, if it is a TS multicore. If it's TRS, you can use balanced connections. If you have to go to unbalanced. you will lose about 6db of gain, which is no big deal. If the snake is longer than 10-20' (3-6M), you may start to have noise floor issues.-Richie

 

[mattr]

Mattr and company are right. Deep bit depth will not give you "polished sound". A lot of those big time studios recorded classic hits at 16bit/44.1kHz.

Well, I was referring to sample rate... I think virtually everyone would still highly recommended recording at 24-bit.

24-bit @44.1kHz is where its at

(...but at the same time, 24-bit will not give you any more of a notable 'polished sound' either, just it has a few benefits here and there that make it worth the space a lot more than a higher sample rate...)

 

[philbagg]

Mattr and company are right. Deep bit depth will not give you "polished sound". A lot of those big time studios recorded classic hits at 16bit/44.1kHz. Anyway- OK, you got preamps. Yes, the snake will unbalance the signal, if it is a TS multicore. If it's TRS, you can use balanced connections. If you have to go to unbalanced. you will lose about 6db of gain, which is no big deal. If the snake is longer than 10-20' (3-6M), you may start to have noise floor issues.-Richie

I think he was talking about sample rate, not bit depth

 

[mattr]

I think he was talking about sample rate, not bit depth

I probably shouldn't have used the phrase 'useless bits' I didn't mean to refer to word length, more the idea that if you're taking 24-bit samples at 4x the rate that is necessary, you're going to end up with 72 useless bits for every 24 useful ones making the files 3 times larger than they needed to be... and as I typed that example I realised it wasn't the best one to use as 44.1kHz isn't a quarter of 192kHz, but it was just a train of thought when I was bashing at the keyboard. Time for bed after a long Friday and Saturday methinks!

 

[JacobShah]

Actually for home use I am strictly 44.1 or 48khz\ 24-bit, but noooo some smart guys who thinks they are geniuses thinks 192khz is standard! Anyway, I would like to just stick with just the snake, instead of bringing in a ton preamps. Would 6db be a big deal with drums(since they are loud). If I had to I could get a SM Pro Audio PR4, to use the line inputs, but by using only line (unbalanced), will I get noise when I try to increase volume? The overheads must be XLR(for phantom power), but the other five mics I would like to just run through the snake. What are your thoughts?

 

[Richard Monroe]

Actually for home use I am strictly 44.1 or 48khz\ 24-bit, but noooo some smart guys who thinks they are geniuses thinks 192khz is standard! Anyway, I would like to just stick with just the snake, instead of bringing in a ton preamps. Would 6db be a big deal with drums(since they are loud). If I had to I could get a SM Pro Audio PR4, to use the line inputs, but by using only line (unbalanced), will I get noise when I try to increase volume? The overheads must be XLR(for phantom power), but the other five mics I would like to just run through the snake. What are your thoughts?

In the greater scheme of things, 6db is no big deal. If you get noise turning up the gain, it is more likely the preamps in the mixer than the use of unbalanced connections. Unbalanced connections only cause appreciable noise issues with relatively long runs of cable.You know, in the old days, *all* connections were unbalanced, and the world did not come to an end. Almost everyday, I plug an Avalon into an RNC compressor, which unbalances the signal. Big frackin' deal.-Richie

 

[JacobShah]

ookkk.... so my cable is under 20'(16.5 ft.) am i gonna hear audible noise?

 

[Richard Monroe]

ookkk.... so my cable is under 20'(16.5 ft.) am i gonna hear audible noise?

Quite possibly-but it is unlikely to be caused by the cable. Most mixers make audible noise all by themselves.-Richie

 

[mshilarious]

ookkk.... so my cable is under 20'(16.5 ft.) am i gonna hear audible noise?

It depends on how bad the interference is in your location. 20 ft. unbalanced mic-level in my studio would be fatal; line-level would be annoying. Every connection in my studio is balanced as a result.

You might be completely OK though . . .

Also, whether or not you have the 6dB signal loss depends on the type of output your mixer has--electrically balanced will lose 6dB; impedance or transformer balanced will not.

 

[JacobShah]

Okay so I am probably safer with buying the 4 channel preamp (which is made for that kind of conversion), and then running the outputs to my line in, rather than getting the snake and hoping for the best, right? Is there going to be a huge difference as far as quality with preamps vs. line in(through snake)? I really appreciate everyone's advice and help!