What Computer/Hardware to Buy For My Budget And Specific Needs (Which Includes Compatibility With An MP3 Player)

[The_Arcane_Pigeon]

Get a Mac Mini with the M4 Chip and at least 24 gb ram ($1000 refurbished) - Intel Macs are phasing out and on the last leg of life. Use Logic Pro ($199) or start on Garageband (which is free with all Macs) and get a simple inexpensive Interface like a Behringer UMC204HD ($109 USD) or a Scarlett 2i2 Ver 3 used ($150 USD) - but basically stop wasting your time vacillating on what you think you should get - you get a Mac and you can do everything you want and more.

Okay. Very clear recommendation. That is kind of pricey though.
Obviously the 2018 MacBook pro is an Intel as you implied. Mac Minis are not Intel? What are they then?
Also, if you could elaborate on what's getting phased out and how it might have an impact on me if I were to buy an old Mac (2018 and on). If not thanks for the response anywhow.

 

[Papanate]

Okay. Very clear recommendation. That is kind of pricey though.
Obviously the 2018 MacBook pro is an Intel as you implied. Mac Minis are not Intel? What are they then?
Also, if you could elaborate on what's getting phased out and how it might have an impact on me if I were to buy an old Mac (2018 and on). If not thanks for the response anywhow.

If you go to 2018 Mac Minis were still intel - and they are very inexpensive - $150. 2020 onward they were Apple Siilcon Chips.

 

[Papanate]

I love it when someone gives a budget and the suggestions come in at spending double that amount!

I know it was pushing his budget - but you never know until you ask.

 

[TalismanRich]

Okay this is a very helpful suggestion. I will weigh my options here.
A) Is there any reason you'd go with this set up over a macbook?
B) I'm assuming this is almost definitely a McDonald's joke and has nothing to do with MacBooks. Correct/Incorrect? Lol.

I'm just not a Mac fan. Got a very old Mac laptop sitting somewhere (PPC processor). Stuff that I wanted to use were mostly available for PC, not Mac. It's the same reason I parked the Atari ST, and the Apple ][+, Atari 8 bit and TI computers.

I went with the PC years ago because I could build what I wanted, the way I wanted. It was an open system. At one point, Apple was in pretty Dire Straits (pun intended). Being a closed system locked to one company was a liability. Over the past 40+ years, I've watched computer companies and operating systems come and go. As much as I don't really care about some things Microsoft does sometimes, they have be resilient. The "Wintel" platform has become the primary system for the world.

Computers today are commodity items, especially laptops. While you might not be able to add memory or hard drives to the new ones, you have choices... Lenovo, Asus, HP, Dell, Acer, etc. If Apple decided tomorrow to ditch the whole Mac computer world and become a phone only company, what then? You can say it will never happen, but nobody expected IBM to leave the PC market.

 

[TalismanRich]

Okay. Very clear recommendation. That is kind of pricey though.
Obviously the 2018 MacBook pro is an Intel as you implied. Mac Minis are not Intel? What are they then?
Also, if you could elaborate on what's getting phased out and how it might have an impact on me if I were to buy an old Mac (2018 and on). If not thanks for the response anywhow.

Things to research before buying used computers are what OS cutoffs are involved. Mac Tahoe is the last version with Intel compatibility. If you plan to keep the system for 7 or 8 years, you'll locked into that version. Future versions will only support Apple processors. Likewise with the intro of Windows 11, Microsoft restricts the OS to Intel Gen 8 or later due to the inclusion of TPM 2.0 and UEFI secure boot. You can check compatibility for any processor/OS by doing a quick Google search.

As to what the future holds, things will probably get more restrictive. Security is a primary objective with OS development, especially in corporate environments. Mixing hardware and software restrictions makes things tougher for hackers to infiltrate a system, although they always come up with avenues to get in.

If you're well versed in computers, you could also go with a Linux system. My brother has been running that for years and loves it. When he needs to run his Quicken, he just fires up Wine or whatever Win compatible setup he has and goes. But he doesn't do any recording. The issue I see is that most audio hardware manufacturers make device drivers for Win/Mac, and rarely for Linux. You might be able to get things working with JACK, but will the plugins work, or will the controls be as good?

 

[The_Arcane_Pigeon]

Things to research before buying used computers are what OS cutoffs are involved. Mac Tahoe is the last version with Intel compatibility. If you plan to keep the system for 7 or 8 years, you'll locked into that version. Future versions will only support Apple processors. Likewise with the intro of Windows 11, Microsoft restricts the OS to Intel Gen 8 or later due to the inclusion of TPM 2.0 and UEFI secure boot. You can check compatibility for any processor/OS by doing a quick Google search.

As to what the future holds, things will probably get more restrictive. Security is a primary objective with OS development, especially in corporate environments. Mixing hardware and software restrictions makes things tougher for hackers to infiltrate a system, although they always come up with avenues to get in.

If you're well versed in computers, you could also go with a Linux system. My brother has been running that for years and loves it. When he needs to run his Quicken, he just fires up Wine or whatever Win compatible setup he has and goes. But he doesn't do any recording. The issue I see is that most audio hardware manufacturers make device drivers for Win/Mac, and rarely for Linux. You might be able to get things working with JACK, but will the plugins work, or will the controls be as good?

Hm. I read that a 2018 MacBook pro (which was still Intel from what I understand) can run Sequoia.
Regardless, I'm actually leaning towards the HP Elitebook G8 setup you recommended. It sounds like a good fit for what I'm trying to do. I guess then I could use either Ableton or Reaper? I'm guessing registering Reaper is a one time fee and not some kind of subscription? Feel free to elaborate on the Elitebook option, regarding anything else I might want to consider.

 

[Steenamaroo]

If you're looking mac I'd fall somewhere in the middle of the previous suggestions.
The switch to Apple Silicon (arm based) was a huge paradigm shift - Not your usual '10% faster' upgrade.

I have the 2020 macbook air, base model - That's the first generation with the lowest spec CPU/GPU,
and to this day I see no reason to upgrade. It is, for my workload, a beast.
For reference, it replaced a 12 core Xeon Mac Pro which was, essentially, server hardware at the time.

If I did extensive video editing then sure, I'd probably be looking to upgrade but for audio? No.


Personally I wouldn't recommend picking up an intel mac because they're getting a bit long in the tooth,
battery life sucks (where applicable), they run pretty hot, and the performance benefits of going to even the earliest Apple Silicon are astounding,
but I also wouldn't necessarily recommend going for the latest and greatest with ram upgrades.
Honestly, there's just no need.

The 16GB memory on my air has never held me back and I do a lot more than just audio work.
Honestly I feel like 8 would have been fine for my recording needs - I went 16 for the other work I mentioned.

That would give you access to Garageband which is the gateway drug for Logic Pro although, personally, I'd just go with Reaper from the start.
Reaper operate something of an honour system - The software is free to download and try for as long as you like.
You're meant to buy a license after X days of usage. Whether you do or not is entirely up to you.
The software will continue to work, unrestricted, barring a brief nag window.

You can, of course, go the windows route and there'll be plenty of suggestions, I'm sure.
Ultimately that's your choice, but there's no reason you can't set up a great audio work station on either platform.

As with anything, just google thoroughly to ensure there are people successfully using your chosen combinations (audio interface, computer hardware, operating system)
before committing to buying.
Compatibility concerns apply on any platform.

With regard to discussion of updates and upgrades and compatibility, I never understood it.
Get a combination of computer, OS, Daw, plugins, and interface that works, then leave it alone.

I'll never understand the overwhelming need to update OS, or whatever, and then have to chase your tail paying to update or replace everything else.
Just leave it alone, is my opinion.
I understood it, to some extent, maybe 15 years ago when the new features of DAWs were genuinely desirable and game changing,
but these days I'm not seeing it.

I have a 2009 Mac Pro with ProTools 12 (I think) in the corner gathering dust that I could plug in and make a record on right now. <shrugs>
My current mac runs Monterey. Again...<shrugs>

I had been on a 5/6 year cycle where upgrading/updating would coincide with the purchase of a new computer
but this time around I just don't see a need so I think I'll be driving the M1 air (docked) until something catastrophic happens to it.
That could be 6 weeks, 6 months or 6 years...I guess we'll see.

 

[ecc83]

I know nothing of macs, never even touched one! I have however dabbled with Windows PCs since XP days and have been following forums for well over 15 years. In that time I have had I think 5 or 6 interfaces and several tower computers and laptops. Never in all that time has any interface or OS failed to work together. I even bought a "Windows Media version" PC which was NOT supposed to support ASIO kit...it did!

From my readings on forums I would not have been so lucky with Apple software? Ok yes, I am an electronics tech so messing about in a computer's gizzards is both easy for me and something of a pleasure but I can assure you I am as **** thick as the next bloke about software!
In short I would always advise Windows. BTW for Linux the Native Instruments Komplete Audio interfaces work very well I am told. Shame is, NI seem to have dropped them?

Dave.

 

[Steenamaroo]

There's no luck involved.
You find out if an interface is supported and decide to buy it based on that.

If your suggestion is that there's broader support on windows then, yeah, you're probably right,
although I'm struggling to think of a brand I care about that doesn't offer MacOS drivers where drivers are needed...I'm sure they exist.

However, any class compliant device will work on MacOS without the need for additional drivers/software/protocols(Asio), and without the OS being 'in control' or 'getting in the way'.
Nice to be able to just plug it in and let your DAW have direct control, as it should be.

You're recommending what you know because you know it; that's fair enough.
Would you still recommend it if you knew MacOS and Linux well? Maybe. Who knows!

 

[ecc83]

There's no luck involved.
You find out if an interface is supported and decide to buy it based on that.

If your suggestion is that there's broader support on windows then, yeah, you're probably right,
although I'm struggling to think of a brand I care about that doesn't offer MacOS drivers...I'm sure they exist.

However, any class compliant device will work on MacOS without the need for additional drivers/software/Asio, and without the OS being 'in control' or 'getting in the way'.
Nice to be able to just plug it in and let your daw control sample+bit rate, as it should be.

You're recommending what you know because you know it; that's fair enough.
Would you still recommend it if you knew MacOS and Linux well? Maybe. Who knows!

Of course, forgive my ignorance, as you say, I suggest what I know but as a tech I have misgivings about the engineering common sense of a company that drops things like headphone sockets on phones! Also I have never been in the financial position to splash out on something I don't know and moreover, cannot tinker with!

I have half a dozen USB devices that are Class Compliant" and truly plug and play. My MOTU M4 sets itself up as soon as I plug it in...punch up Samplitude and set the I/O I need. Job's a good'un...SUPER stable, as was the KA6 before it. And this is with this W10 Lenovo laptop, a W11 Lenovo lappy, an old W7 HP g6 or indeed an Asus /AMD W10 tower. Things could not be simpler or more stable.

Dave.

 

[Papanate]

Of course, forgive my ignorance, as you say, I suggest what I know but as a tech I have misgivings about the engineering common sense of a company that drops things like headphone sockets on phones! Also I have never been in the financial position to splash out on something I don't know and moreover, cannot tinker with!

I have half a dozen USB devices that are Class Compliant" and truly plug and play. My MOTU M4 sets itself up as soon as I plug it in...punch up Samplitude and set the I/O I need. Job's a good'un...SUPER stable, as was the KA6 before it. And this is with this W10 Lenovo laptop, a W11 Lenovo lappy, an old W7 HP g6 or indeed an Asus /AMD W10 tower. Things could not be simpler or more stable.

I think the point is that there isn’t any configuration issues on Macs - and there can be on PCs - but ultimately if you know what you are doing it doesn’t matter at all
what you use - as long as your comfortable using the device.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Fear or dislike of the unknown isn't uncommon.
It's not especially helpful when there are other people around who do know but, still, I understand.

Plug and play claims aren't strictly true if you have to use ASIO protocol to get control of your hardware.
That's a minor detail and admittedly not much of an inconvenience, and I understand modern windows has an exclusive mode that serves the same purpose now.
All minor stuff but perhaps eyeopening to know that, where class compliant audio is concerned, 'plug and play' does mean it on Mac and has done for...decades?

I don't doubt for a second the reliability and stability of your setups,
and it's great that you have that wealth of experience to share with the OP.

 

[rob aylestone]

Surely the entire point of using computers is that, like every tool, you have to at least have a sensible handle on how they work. Today, Windows has asked me to update the app for my Nord keyboard. Stupidly, I clicked yes. Cubase now cannot see it and I have some strange new driver installed. I'll fix it. This mac does it's backup using a C to A USB adaptor. Left the damn thing in the office, so used a multi-socketed gizmo instead. Now, despite the backup being complete, it tells me not to remove it because it's in use. Do I unplug and risk the process is unimportant or leave it another 20 minutes. This is just computers I guess!

 

[The_Arcane_Pigeon]

will continue to work, unrestricted, barring a brief nag window.

If you're looking mac I'd fall somewhere in the middle of the previous suggestions.
The switch to Apple Silicon (arm based) was a huge paradigm shift - Not your usual '10% faster' upgrade.

I have the 2020 macbook air, base model - That's the first generation with the lowest spec CPU/GPU,
and to this day I see no reason to upgrade. It is, for my workload, a beast.
For reference, it replaced a 12 core Xeon Mac Pro which was, essentially, server hardware at the time.

If I did extensive video editing then sure, I'd probably be looking to upgrade but for audio? No.


Personally I wouldn't recommend picking up an intel mac because they're getting a bit long in the tooth,
battery life sucks (where applicable), they run pretty hot, and the performance benefits of going to even the earliest Apple Silicon are astounding,
but I also wouldn't necessarily recommend going for the latest and greatest with ram upgrades.
Honestly, there's just no need.

The 16GB memory on my air has never held me back and I do a lot more than just audio work.
Honestly I feel like 8 would have been fine for my recording needs - I went 16 for the other work I mentioned.

That would give you access to Garageband which is the gateway drug for Logic Pro although, personally, I'd just go with Reaper from the start.
Reaper operate something of an honour system - The software is free to download and try for as long as you like.
You're meant to buy a license after X days of usage. Whether you do or not is entirely up to you.
The software will continue to work, unrestricted, barring a brief nag window.

You can, of course, go the windows route and there'll be plenty of suggestions, I'm sure.
Ultimately that's your choice, but there's no reason you can't set up a great audio work station on either platform.

As with anything, just google thoroughly to ensure there are people successfully using your chosen combinations (audio interface, computer hardware, operating system)
before committing to buying.
Compatibility concerns apply on any platform.

With regard to discussion of updates and upgrades and compatibility, I never understood it.
Get a combination of computer, OS, Daw, plugins, and interface that works, then leave it alone.

I'll never understand the overwhelming need to update OS, or whatever, and then have to chase your tail paying to update or replace everything else.
Just leave it alone, is my opinion.
I understood it, to some extent, maybe 15 years ago when the new features of DAWs were genuinely desirable and game changing,
but these days I'm not seeing it.

I have a 2009 Mac Pro with ProTools 12 (I think) in the corner gathering dust that I could plug in and make a record on right now. <shrugs>
My current mac runs Monterey. Again...<shrugs>

I had been on a 5/6 year cycle where upgrading/updating would coincide with the purchase of a new computer
but this time around I just don't see a need so I think I'll be driving the M1 air (docked) until something catastrophic happens to it.
That could be 6 weeks, 6 months or 6 years...I guess we'll see.

Extremely Helpful take. So from what I gather, if i'm looking for to get a Pro I can get a Macbook Pro from 2020 onward and it will be silicon not Intel.
I'm guessing m1 chip models are more than enough for my probable needs based on what you're saying.

"With regard to discussion of updates and upgrades and compatibility, I never understood it.
Get a combination of computer, OS, Daw, plugins, and interface that works, then leave it alone."
Okay. I've just had experience with OSs nagging me to update, and I have often assumed at points it was necessary. Like, if I don't update my OS then obviously there could be software compatibility issues in the future. Also, version updates can affect security issues? Based on what you're saying though, it's pretty clear these things are not an issue.

From my very cursory research, refurbished 2020 MacBook pro 13"s seem to be dirt cheap. Which feels weird. Too good to be true type concerns.

Reaper has been suggested a lot. My good friend recommended Garage Band because it's so easy to use, especially the more modern versions. I'm wondering just two things. How Much easier is it than Reaper? Because I do want to start putting music together sooner rather than later. Also, it is likely that my friend who uses logic and I will be collaborating so I'm wondering about if we could share files and put something together with one another while working out of our separate spaces in isolation from one another.

 

[ecc83]

"Reaper has been suggested a lot. My good friend recommended Garage Band because it's so easy to use, especially the more modern versions. I'm wondering just two things. How Much easier is it than Reaper?"

You can have both! I am no musician but my son is and he has become very slick with Samplitude over the years, best editor ever he says. But he also uses Cakewalk and Reaper for things Sam cannot do or is not so good at. One thing he has told me is that Cakewalk is better for MIDI work than the other two.
It might seem doubly hard to try to learn two or more DAWs rather than just one but in fact, once you get familiar with say Reaper you will see more things the same rather than different IMHO with other softwares.

Dave.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Extremely Helpful take. So from what I gather, if i'm looking for to get a Pro I can get a Macbook Pro from 2020 onward and it will be silicon not Intel.
I'm guessing m1 chip models are more than enough for my probable needs based on what you're saying.

I'm pretty sure the last intel models were 2019 but, of course, just double check on anything you're buying.
It's easy enough, since all the models are M-something with pro/max/ultra variants.

Your workflow and demands will be different to mine but for normal home recording you wouldn't have a problem, in my experience.

Okay. I've just had experience with OSs nagging me to update, and I have often assumed at points it was necessary. Like, if I don't update my OS then obviously there could be software compatibility issues in the future. Also, version updates can affect security issues? Based on what you're saying though, it's pretty clear these things are not an issue.

Security concerns are valid.
Apple tend to push security updates and patches separately from their main OS updates,
so it's possible to remain on quite an old OS and still be up to date, that way.
Right now, for example, I'm four years out of date, OS wise, but up to date security wise.

From my very cursory research, refurbished 2020 MacBook pro 13"s seem to be dirt cheap. Which feels weird. Too good to be true type concerns.

Resale used to be great on apple computers, especially if you looked after them and sold after 4/5 years.
I used to spend around £1000 then sell after 5 years for £700 ish.

I don't think Apple Silicon resale is anywhere near as good
As long as condition is good and the battery, if applicable, is healthy, too good to be true probably isn't.

Reaper has been suggested a lot. My good friend recommended Garage Band because it's so easy to use, especially the more modern versions. I'm wondering just two things. How Much easier is it than Reaper? Because I do want to start putting music together sooner rather than later. Also, it is likely that my friend who uses logic and I will be collaborating so I'm wondering about if we could share files and put something together with one another while working out of our separate spaces in isolation from one another.

GarageBand is intuitive and simplified, but somewhat limited.
If you're here for the long haul I'd pick a DAW you won't grow out of.

If you and your friend use the same DAW then you can exchange whole sessions, with all the settings and adjustments preserved.
If you don't, then you can exchange mp3/wav files and it's a more limited arrangement.
Unfortunately I think you'll have to weight that one up on your own.

 

[TalismanRich]

Hm. I read that a 2018 MacBook pro (which was still Intel from what I understand) can run Sequoia.
Regardless, I'm actually leaning towards the HP Elitebook G8 setup you recommended. It sounds like a good fit for what I'm trying to do. I guess then I could use either Ableton or Reaper? I'm guessing registering Reaper is a one time fee and not some kind of subscription? Feel free to elaborate on the Elitebook option, regarding anything else I might want to consider.

RE: Reaper's cost.

$60 gets you two full versions of Reaper. Currently they are on 7.45. You would be good through 8.99999. How long does that mean? Reaper 7.0 was released in 2023. Reaper came out with V6.0 in 2019. Reaper 5.0 came out in 2015. So you are probably looking at another 6-7 years to get to Version 9.0. And it won't die when a new version comes out. I started on V 4.something and stayed on v 5.99 until I started working with someone and we both went to V7.0. I skipped 6.x entirely. V5.99 is still on my computer. It only takes up about 150 to 200MB on the drive. My reverb IRs take up 400MB alone!

One other nice thing about Reaper is that the license is portable. The same license works on PC, Mac or Linux. I have the software installed in 5 computers, including a Linux machine that I used just to test it. Per the license agreement, you should only be using one copy at a time, but if you had two systems in different rooms, as I do, plus a laptop or two, you can have the software available to use on each with no special fees. I can work on a mix down here in the basement, put the project files on the network drive and move upstairs to a different system. I can dump the project to my laptop and take it with me.

I pointed out the Elitebook as my daughter uses that for work. We got her a refurb unit a couple years ago. She has an HP dock that runs off the Thunderbolt port. It handles 3 monitors, plus Ethernet, keyboard and mouse. She connects through a wired line to a VPN for work from home. It's quite a nice little setup. Her unit is a 9th Gen I7 that she has run for work and schooling (she completed her masters).

 

[bouldersoundguy]

If the computer is used to download mp3 files, it's going to be online. That means you will want to stay up to date on security fixes. If that weren't the case you could potentially just get a setup that works and leave it alone for years. A studio I work in is still using a Windows 7 machine which was unconnected to the internet for a decade or so. I just had to get it online to do some updates so it would work with a new interface, but now I could conceivably take it back offline (except it's using the router to control the interface, and the router is online).

I definitely lean toward Windows over Mac. Macs are fine, but I think you can get comparable processing power for less with a Windows machine. Macs mostly (with some substantially exceptions) make things simpler for the user, but the tradeoff is that sometimes that puts roadblocks in your way. Updates can obsolete things on either system, but I've had more trouble with Apple products than Windows.

 

[TalismanRich]

Don't need to be online to get MP3s. I have 32GB of MP3s on an SD card in my car. I dumped a bunch of CDs from my collection to my computer via CDex. I could have used Windows Media Player as well. I don't subscribe to Spotify or Apple or any of the other music services. Of course I'm online and have downloaded some MP3 files before for CDs I've bought from Amazon, Bandcamp, and a few others, but those are minimal compared to the 300+ CDs I have.

 

[Serendipity Records]

Okay. Very clear recommendation. That is kind of pricey though.

M4 is massive overkill. Last I checked M2 computers were still available on the official Apple refurbished site. Excellent computers that have not been overdriven by any of the “pros” who’ve tried to push its limits (Colt Caperrune I think was among them?)