Are instrumentals 'songs'?

[rob aylestone]

So George Gershwin was a song writer but never wrote a word that was sung? Rick Wakeman got a CBE today - his songs don't usually have any words either?

Andrerw Lloyd Webber is in the Songwriting hall of fame and never writes lyrics? Do his songs only get called songs when somebody produces the words? If the award is for writing songs, then shouldn't the person who wrote the lyrics get a credit too? Some actually do, but some don't - indicating the words might not be vital for giving somebody a song writing award? Maybe?

 

[Mickster]

Man......another thread that exposes the uniquely human need to be right....and not just right.......but exclusively knowledgeable.

Very interesting.

2 cents worth of......come on man.

Mick

 

[gecko zzed]

Don't look up the definition of 'dog,' since that is what 'was' and is not 'is.' Brilliant deductive and inductive reasoning.

You may have not noticed exactly what I wrote: "Dictionaries can only report on what was. They cannot report accurately on what is". The key word in the second sentence is "accurately". Dictionaries are compiled after the event, and they cannot report on usages that have come into being after they've been compiled. Of course not every word changes its meaning, Nor does every word lose a meaning if a new usage for it arises.

The Global Language Monitor reports that about 5,400 neoligisms (which include re-purposed words) pop into being each year, with about 1000 making it into dictionaries.

I did look up 'dog' in the online Oxford dictionary. It provided six definitions plus tweny idiomatic uses. There will be many more uses in street slang that the dictionary hasn't listed.

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

Speak my version of English and you don't need to worry about any of that. Words are noise.

Oxford never gave me nothing..I hate neoligists, they are panzies.

What was...you lost me. Its not that complicated.

You go to the lady, say..I want a burger hold the ketchup, and large fries...or onion ring. Pay . Eat your food. Kick, everyones ass.

 

[grimtraveller]

BD, lighten up. You're not being disagreed with, but you are dogmatically dismissing any hint of nuance. And the entirety of human existence is shot through with nuance, especially language and its development.
What you really need is to listen to a stack of my ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?instrumental songs.


? ? ? ?

 

[grimtraveller]

Speak my version of English

You'd be a heck of a lot easier to fathom if we all did speak [and understand] your version of English. ?

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

What does 'it all' mean? .... What does 'et al' mean? ....same thing..

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

Ubi Est Bubula.... Latin for, 'where's the beef'..

 

[TAE]

So with regard to Elton is a songwriter...yes he is ..and probably always was but just didn't have the confidence to put his own words out there. In the early years for certain he was not a songwriter but part of a songwriting team...two different things. If you can't write lyrics to your musical compositions then you are a composer not a songwriter....Now I say this all tongue n cheek because that is just how I see it...and IMO I am right...that said reality is what we agree we see... In the Jury system we humans have decided it only takes 12 humans to decide what is reality. If all 12 agree then it is reality , if one in 12 says black is white and the other 11 say the opposite...there is no decision made either way. Hard to stomach sometimes because one stupid dumbass can't see what the other 11 see but that's the rules we have set forth in America.

Here in this open forum way more than 12 people have expounded upon their perception / belief of what a song is or isn't and it really is a pretty silly yet fun thing to discuss. I'd never really given it much thought but in doing so I have concluded what I have concluded and it is clear others here have concluded differently. But that's OK cause I am right and and anyone who disagrees with me even one iota ( what's an iota?) is just a "JERK" and doesn't know shit from Shinola. Of course I'm just kidding but on the shit from Shinola thing I figure as a PSA I'd post this video below for a little levity in this dead serious, life or death topic.

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

.. In the Jury system we humans have decided it only takes 12 humans to decide what is reality. If all 12 agree then it is reality , if one in 12 says black is white and the other 11 say the opposite...there is no decision made either way. Hard to stomach sometimes because one stupid dumbass can't see what the other 11 see but that's the rules we have set forth in America.

t that's OK cause I am right and and anyone who disagrees with me even one Ray Liotta

That is thankfully not how reality works, what IS true IS, and we keep going.

So you are giving up reality? Bye.

I am one. You and your fantastic college friends don't plot anybodies coarse. My truth is more powerful than your fiction.

Shift this thing into high gear huh? Give up and just go to a jailing society. Jail them all. Whats wrong with that? Bad news.

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

Ripley : I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

but that's the rules we have set forth in America.

Hell, with that. Isnt this/it the United States?

'one in 12 says black is white and the other 11 say the opposite' , Nothing united about that. Further, just so we are square, when you call 'black' saying it is 'white' knowingly..that is a lie. Lying is fraud. That lying Jury would be hung. Hung by the crowd of people that did time when they were innocent.

It is your DUTY to stand up to an oppressive government. 11 on 1 sounds pretty oppressive. Better have your facts straight. The scales of justice are a motherfucker on the payback.

I am curious why you have the need to define things so specifically. Nothing changes one way or the other, song or instrumental. It comes off to me as elitist behavior. No, IM SAYING IT MEANS...kind of thing. Why? Talk to yer fellow peoples, they might learn you something new.

I have no need to do such things. I wouldnt even think about.

 

[grimtraveller]

The other thing worth mentioning about the dictionary definitions is that they don't take into account the recording age and how language has moved along within that field. There are lots of interchangeable terms. For example, tracks, numbers, songs, pieces, compositions, ditties and tunes have all been used interchangeably for both songs with vocals and instrumentals over the last 70 years.

 

[gecko zzed]

And sometimes a song is a hit. A hit? How can that be? A hit is when you strike something. How can that mean a successful record?

 

[rob aylestone]

I fell over this old topic. It never had a result we could all agree about.

I just remembered a song from Elton John. Song for Guy. It is an instrumental. Elton thinks it a song………..

 

[Papanate]

I fell over this old topic. It never had a result we could all agree about.

I just remembered a song from Elton John. Song for Guy. It is an instrumental. Elton thinks it a song………..

Isn’t a song a song no matter if has vocals - spoken words - repeated words occasional - Tequilla comes to mind - it’s song right?

 

[rob aylestone]

yes - I would call that one a song. I suppose I'd take a piece of music with melody, words or an instrument playing the melody and if it has a verse and chorus, that would tick my song box. Yet, imagine the Top Gun music - it has a very clear melody, but in my head is NOT a song - yet it sort of has a chorus and verse? I cannot really explain it?

 

[Serendipity Records]

What do you do with a song? You sing it. Do you sing an instrumental? No. Therefore, an instrumental is not a song.

 

[TalismanRich]

Are thumbs fingers?

It's just semantics.

Is this a song?


How about this?


Or this?

 

[Papanate]

yes - I would call that one a song. I suppose I'd take a piece of music with melody, words or an instrument playing the melody and if it has a verse and chorus, that would tick my song box. Yet, imagine the Top Gun music - it has a very clear melody, but in my head is NOT a song - yet it sort of has a chorus and verse? I cannot really explain it?

Well I’m in the camp that everything is a song - even at that I would describe TopGun as a Musical Piece - most sound tracks I would consider them musical pieces.