Input levels and configuring analog preamps with audio interface.

[Clockworkcreep]

Hello, I set up all of my equipment and tried a recording but found that the process of getting levels is confusing and I might be doing something wrong. I use about 6 different preamps and getting levels on one results in a loud signal and on the other the signal is good but I have to turn down the other tracks a lot to hear it in the mix. After mixing the sound is OK but I need a way to configure my setup so my levels are consistent on the way in. It was much easier to do this with my interface that had built in preamps. Also when using a mixer connected to an Interface. I feel like the different preamps and the audio interface are complicating the whole process. Any thoughts on this? The recording I did is attached.

 

[rob aylestone]

I don’t understand its the same on a mixer or a preamp? You adjust each preamp gain knob to set the level on its way into the mixer or preamp. That way every channel will have undistorted but optimal level. It also means that some faders will end up very low compared to others, that is very normal, and on some mixers there are ways to adjust this to get a bit more fader friendliness. What are you having issues with?

 

[Clockworkcreep]

I don’t understand it’s the same on a mixer or a preamp? You adjust each preamp gain knob to set the level on its way into the mixer or preamp. That way every channel will have undistorted but optimal level. It also means that some faders will end up very low compared to others, that is very normal, and on some mixers there are ways to adjust this to get a bit more fader friendliness. What are you having issues with?

The audio interface I’ve gotten is somewhat complicated, to me at least. I have each external preamp going to the inputs on the back of the interface. Now each input has settings that affect those inputs. There is one for “Lo Gain” & “+4 Db” which makes me believe I have to set one or the other properly. While recording, each preamp required different gain settings. I guess that’s normal since they’re all different. 3 of them, though, weren’t getting as loud as I was hoping. They all have a limiter at the end so maybe that’s why. I don’t really know. I am trying to figure out this gear as I go. How do I know which setting to use, Lo gain or +4 db?

 

[Papanate]

The audio interface I’ve gotten is somewhat complicated, to me at least. I have each external preamp going to the inputs on the back of the interface. Now each input has settings that affect those inputs. There is one for “Lo Gain” & “+4 Db” which makes me believe I have to set one or the other properly. While recording, each preamp required different gain settings. I guess that’s normal since they’re all different. 3 of them, though, weren’t getting as loud as I was hoping. They all have a limiter at the end so maybe that’s why. I don’t really know. I am trying to figure out this gear as I go. How do I know which setting to use, Lo gain or +4 db?

What interface and what DAW?

 

[rob aylestone]

You have each source connected to a pre-amp, and each of those goes to another pre-amp? OK.
What you have to understand is gain staging. Every connection stage has to work at optimum - so assuming the first interface is the 'highest quality' one, you set the gain stage there to be at the optimum settings to maximise gain, without going into distortion. The output then goes to the next pre-amp in your change and you repeat the process.

The sound quality will then be at the best in terms of noise and distortion, unless you are unlucky, and the performance of one of them to get it's best performance put the other in it's most noisy state? Remember it is common for many interfaces to take in a high level input at line level, reduce it to mic level internally, then amplify that!

Many two pre-amp chains produce worse performance than using one.

If the external preamps are special, boutique or somehow wonderful, and what they do to the signal distorts it in some nice way you want, then if this works for you, great. My experience of cascading preamps is pretty well that the results are less good.

I don't own (or want) any external preamps. I have interfaces that sound great, and if I want I can get a 32 channel nice digital desk out and multitrack with that. There seems little point as all the interfaces I own, do what I need. I could buy something clever and hyped, with tubes and a vintage pedigree, but I don't subscribe to that. I others do, and that is fine - but I've never been able to see that route economically sensible and for me, distortion and noise matter more than all those descriptive words enthusiasts of the clever gear seem to use.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Maybe it would be a good idea to tell us what interface and preamps you have.

For the most part, set your preamp to make the signal around -18 dBFS in the DAW.

 

[Clockworkcreep]

Maybe it would be a good idea to tell us what interface and preamps you have.

For the most part, set your preamp to make the signal around -18 dBFS in the DAW.

The interface is the RME UFX II and the preamps are the Daking MicPre II, Warm WA273, Drawmer MXPro-60, & Audient ASP 880.

 

[Clockworkcreep]

You have each source connected to a pre-amp, and each of those goes to another pre-amp? OK.
What you have to understand is gain staging. Every connection stage has to work at optimum - so assuming the first interface is the 'highest quality' one, you set the gain stage there to be at the optimum settings to maximise gain, without going into distortion. The output then goes to the next pre-amp in your change and you repeat the process.

The sound quality will then be at the best in terms of noise and distortion, unless you are unlucky, and the performance of one of them to get it's best performance put the other in it's most noisy state? Remember it is common for many interfaces to take in a high level input at line level, reduce it to mic level internally, then amplify that!

Many two pre-amp chains produce worse performance than using one.

If the external preamps are special, boutique or somehow wonderful, and what they do to the signal distorts it in some nice way you want, then if this works for you, great. My experience of cascading preamps is pretty well that the results are less good.

I don't own (or want) any external preamps. I have interfaces that sound great, and if I want I can get a 32 channel nice digital desk out and multitrack with that. There seems little point as all the interfaces I own, do what I need. I could buy something clever and hyped, with tubes and a vintage pedigree, but I don't subscribe to that. I others do, and that is fine - but I've never been able to see that route economically sensible and for me, distortion and noise matter more than all those descriptive words enthusiasts of the clever gear seem to use.

Ok, interesting. I’m plugged into the inputs on the back of an RME UFX-II. I think they are considered Line in. So the question is about the settings on those inputs. They have a setting for either “Lo Gain” or “+4 db”.

 

[rob aylestone]

Yes - try them and pick the one that works for you best. If you set up your exotic preamps to output lots of level, select the appropriate one on the interface, or if you output at a lower level, try the other. If the interface has to have it's gain set high, that's going to ramp up noise. if you have to turn it right down, then you are sending too much.

You have spent five and a half grand (UK) on getting sound into your DAW - without really having a grasp of what these things actually will do for you. Forgive me, but this is crazy. I cannot see how you selected these items? You posted the pics of your studio, with the acoustic tiles and the monitors. This is all a mismatch of stuff. With the basic acoustic treatment, and the monitors being quite small (can't quite see what they are), all this money in the boutique stuff might not even be audible? If they add something, will you actually hear it. The RME interface is well specified, but to get the maximum channel count, it needs very specific devices connected via the available inputs - to connect more than 4 mics requires more kit - which I guess is why you have invested in the other stuff - it's lovely gear but reaching over and turning up a gain knob becomes a real convoluted process that will I suspect, drive you mad!

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Looking at the manual, the +4 setting seems like it might be a bit hot. What I'd do is get a source going on a mic preamp, set it so the preamp's meter is reading 0 dBVU (which on most gear means +4 dBu), then set the line input gain on the RME to whatever makes the DAW's digital meter read as close to -18 dBFS as possible. And I'd err on the lower end of that number. In the case of the Drawmer, keep the output at 0. One use for that is that if you want to deliberately drive the input too hard, you can compensate by dialing the output back to maintain a proper recording level. For the record, I have quite a bit of experience with the original DaKing preamp and a Drawmer 1960.