I could not have said it better myself

Dave Matthews said:
Because the loss of a democracy in Ukraine by Putin is just as disastrous as the loss of democracy in USA by Trump.
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Lol... How did Trump "lose" democracy in the US? Is the regaining of a democracy in another country worth bankrupting our own country? Who wants a democracy that self-destructively bankrupts itself fighting a dumb war for dumb people against dumb people?

Meseems democracy (21st century definition) seems to be a losing model. [Is there even such a thing as a definition in the 21st century?]
 
Serendipity Records said:
Lol... How did Trump "lose" democracy in the US? Is the regaining of a democracy in another country worth bankrupting our own country? Who wants a democracy that self-destructively bankrupts itself fighting a dumb war for dumb people against dumb people?

Meseems democracy (21st century definition) seems to be a losing model. [Is there even such a thing as a definition in the 21st century?]
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Trump "tried" to circumvent/stop democracy and failed for godz sake. And he's STILL trying.
If we don't stop this shit worldwide China and Russia etc. will take whatever they damn please, and we'll all be the loser for it.
 
brassplyer said:
Besides that the point you're trying to make is absurd, bump stocks have nothing whatsoever to do with people breeding in poverty.
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leddy said:
Then you didn’t understand my point, which was that while the liberal immigration policy gone too far has an unintended consequence of not keeping violent immigrants out of the country, so too the conservative policies of loose gun laws has consequences. Both are deadly.
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The specific comment that you replied to was about people having kids beyond their means to care for them related to the woman with 15 kids.

This set you off on a tangent about "Republican policies" and invoking the Las Vegas shooter and bump-stocks as if that has anything to do with people procreating irresponsibly.

Try to focus and make your inaccurate comments (they always are) about what's being discussed.
 
Dave Matthews said:
Trump "tried" to circumvent/stop democracy and failed for godz sake. And he's STILL trying.
If we don't stop this shit worldwide China and Russia etc. will take whatever they damn please, and we'll all be the loser for it.
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:facepalm: The only way they can do that is if our country/ies are insecure of themselves. The first step in the way of prevention is securing our own finances and being as self-sustainable (as a country) as possible not fighting someone else's war half-way across the globe.
 
brassplyer said:
The specific comment that you replied to was about people having kids beyond their means to care for them related to the woman with 15 kids.
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“families like hers” I did think was referring to the convo about the victim’s family being liberal and subsequent awful comment that was deleted. Not the mom with the million kids.
 
leddy said:
“families like hers” I did think was referring to the convo about the victim’s family being liberal and subsequent awful comment that was deleted. Not the mom with the million kids.
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That was a wrong assumption I was talking about the mom with 15 kids ( now 17)
 
Serendipity Records said:
:facepalm: The only way they can do that is if our country/ies are insecure of themselves. The first step in the way of prevention is securing our own finances and being as self-sustainable (as a country) as possible not fighting someone else's war half-way across the globe.
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So you never would have been involved with WW1 or WW2, right? We'd all probably have been speaking German had we not.
Don't try and tell me or anyone else that Trump didn't try to circumvent democracy. That would be ignorant at best, and downright dumbass at worst.
 
Dave Matthews said:
Because the loss of a democracy in Ukraine by Putin is just as disastrous as the loss of democracy in USA by Trump.
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We’re not supposed to be a democracy. We’re supposed to be a constitutional republic.

But the media (and politicians) are always screaming democracy, so let’s go with that.

No we don’t have a democracy. Democracy is in its simplicity a rule by majority. If 51% say vanilla milkshakes are racist then a law is passed to outlaw vanilla shakes.

But we don’t have that system. We are actually ruled by minorities.

Bankers..minority
Corporations.....minority
Military industrial complex....minority
Think tanks.....minority
LGBT..... minority

I could go on but minorities are determining policy for this country and we have the pride flag adorning the WH and every single embassy.

Minority rule
 
RFR said:
We’re not supposed to be a democracy. We’re supposed to be a constitutional republic.

But the media (and politicians) are always screaming democracy, so let’s go with that.

No we don’t have a democracy. Democracy is in its simplicity a rule by majority. If 51% say vanilla milkshakes are racist then a law is passed to outlaw vanilla shakes.

But we don’t have that system. We are actually ruled by minorities.

Bankers..minority
Corporations.....minority
Military industrial complex....minority
Think tanks.....minority
LGBT..... minority

I could go on but minorities are determining policy for this country and we have the pride flag adorning the WH and every single embassy.

Minority rule
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I don't care that you or anyone else wants to use "Constitutional Republic". That's fine with me.
The facts are that the voting system is a democratic process.
 
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Dave Matthews said:
I don't care that you or anyone else wants to use "Constitutional Republic". That's fine with me.
The facts are that the voting system is a democratic process.
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Here’s some “democratic process” for you Dave.

In California gay marriage was put up for a vote. TWICE the voters in a liberal state voted against gay marriage

The people had spoken!

The government (Ca Supreme Court) said fuck you to the voters.
So a minority got what they wanted despite the wishes of a “democratic” vote.
 
RFR said:
Here’s some “democratic process” for you Dave.

In California gay marriage was put up for a vote. TWICE the voters in a liberal state voted against gay marriage

The people had spoken!

The government (Ca Supreme Court) said fuck you to the voters.
So a minority got what they wanted despite the wishes of a “democratic” vote.
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That's entertaining... when was that?
 
RFR said:
Almost 20 years now?? Didn’t memorize the dates. Sorry.

When it occurred isn’t quite as important as what occurred.
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Yeah OK, I understand the importance. So we're thinking it's around 2000 or so...
One wonders what the sentiment was at the time in different sates. Was it same, similar everywhere?
 
Dave Matthews said:
Yeah OK, I understand the importance. So we're thinking it's around 2000 or so...
One wonders what the sentiment was at the time in different sates. Was it same, similar everywhere?
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Obviously the sentiment at the time was not in favor of gay marriage as expressed by the vote.
By your own metrics it was the democratic process in action, but the government intervened and said “fuck your democracy”.

The whole point is that this was a real life example of things not being a democracy.
Despite harping endlessly about ‘saving our democracy’ the government doesn’t give a shit. They have their own agendas, voters be damned.
 
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Serendipity Records said:
Wilson's redrawing of Europe was disastrous.

And we allowed Communism to take over (look at Russia nowadays!)

Don't tell me this is for the good of worldwide democracy. The only people it benefits is the high-profile American leaders, not the people whether American or otherwise.
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Arms manufacturers are making a fortune, and when everything is blown up, the ‘rebuild Ukraine’ people are gonna make a fortune.
And I’d wager that the US will have one or two permanent military bases in the country when it’s all over.
‘To defend democracy’ of course
 
RFR said:
Obviously the sentiment at the time was not in favor of gay marriage as expressed by the vote.
By your own metrics it was the democratic process in action, but the government intervened and said “fuck your democracy”.

The whole point is that this was a real life example of things not being a democracy.
Despite harping endlessly about ‘saving our democracy’ the government doesn’t give a shit. They have their own agendas, voters be damned.
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I disagree.
The Fed gov (at the time) would have a particular agenda, but in the US the states have a very often different agenda.
I'll have to go and look at the way back machine...
 
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