I have finally finished mixing my 'album', now I'm looking for feedback!

[Hugo Huijer]

Hey guys,

So lately I have finally found some time again to record music, and I'm proud to say that I have finished recording 10 songs. I have already started recording these way back in 2013 (I was also posting here for feedback at that time lol, some things never change). I have been working on the same material ever since on and off, in between too much other non-music related stuff, but now I'm finally finished. I'm looking to get my mixes as good as possible.

https://soundcloud.com/hugo-huijer/sets/album-2016-demo-tracks

I have uploaded 3 tracks on soundcloud (HERE) which I feel are representative for the rest of the material.

I record very dreamy, ambient, alternative rock music. Some of my biggest influences are Radiohead (ofcource), Andrew Bird, Pink Floyd, but also some more jazzy artists lately. Some people would call this music dull and boring, which is my main critique I guess. I can live with that. I'm mostly looking to get the audio quality to a level as high as possible. I know that I'm easy on the reverb/effects, which I will be looking to tone down a little before mastering these tracks. Also, I'm not big on compressing. I feel like especially this music needs to keep all its dynamic range in order to not become more boring.. Any other feedback is absolutely welcome and much appreciated!

What I used for recording:
DAW: Reaper
Guitar & bass: Epiphone SG400, directly through line-in, I use Plug&Mix plug-ins for the effects. I absolutely love these VST's.
Drums: Toontrack EZDrummer
Vocals: Rode NT1A
My budget is still not that big after all these years lol

Thanks in advance!

BTW: I want to thank you guys on this forum and the entire internet, as you have learned me to record music this way and therefore grow an incredible passion for music. I can't believe how much fun it is to read back my old posts. I think a lot has changed since then, partially thanks to you!

BTW2: enough with the feel-good crap lol, I'm looking for good constructive critism here. Don't hold back

 

[andrushkiwt]

great vocals, but they're much too overpowering. The drums are incredibly quiet, particularly the snare, in each track of the 3-track list. What's up with that? No problem putting them lower in the mix, but that's a few steps too far, no? That mic sounds great, works nice on your voice too. Very airy - good mic choice for the genre.

 

[Hugo Huijer]

Thanks for the reply, Much appreciated! Does the volume of the vocals bother you? On all three songs? As for the drums, I use a lot of stick drums early on in songs, where I leave out the snare but use the stick sound in EZDrummer. I do this do create some tension, so that once the snare joins in with the chorus, it has more sensation. It might also be the sample I'm using. I have heard before how EZDrummer samples can sound a little thin.

 

[andrushkiwt]

can't tell so much that it's thin...it's really too quiet to even gauge its properties. perhaps others will disagree.

i'm impressed with the new talent posting in the clinic. hope it keeps coming.

 

[Hugo Huijer]

I have heard that before. A good friend of mine who is quite serious in recording/studios/sound engineering can not get over the sound of the drums. They are too "weak". I have to agree, to a degree, as I've only got the nice samples of EZDrummer. I have applied Plug&Mix's Analoguer to try and 'fatten' the sound and add some room reverb for more body, but I reckon it's still not enough.

But as I re-read your comment, I see that this might be a matter of volume in the first place? Should I just turn up the track volume of the percussion?

 

[famous beagle]

I agree that the drums in general are just mixed too quietly. I think the sounds in EZDrummer are great (I have it as well), so I don't think it's a matter of sound quality. I just think they're too low, IMO.

Other than that, I think all the performances are really great. The vocals are super nice, and the guitars sound very nice too. Great work!

 

[Hugo Huijer]

I agree that the drums in general are just mixed too quietly. I think the sounds in EZDrummer are great (I have it as well), so I don't think it's a matter of sound quality. I just think they're too low, IMO.

Other than that, I think all the performances are really great. The vocals are super nice, and the guitars sound very nice too. Great work!

Yes, I´m definitely going to raise the volume on the drums on some places. Do you personally use any other plug-ins to get the sound that you want from EZDrummer?

Thank you very much for your kind words. Much appreciated!!!

 

[famous beagle]

Yes, I´m definitely going to raise the volume on the drums on some places. Do you personally use any other plug-ins to get the sound that you want from EZDrummer?

Thank you very much for your kind words. Much appreciated!!!

I'll often use some compression many times, depending on the type of song. It can help fatten it up a bit and/or give it some more presence. When working in the box, this is usually the CLA 2A compressor by Waves. But I only use computer recording for my work stuff. When I do my own music, I record all analog and try to use real drums. If I can't use real drums, then I'll use EZ Drummer, either with the 2A plugin or with one of my hardware compressors, such as the FMR RNLA or a DBX 163x.

Also I'll usually EQ the kit. I have an API 550 plug by Waves that I like for that or some EQs by T-Racks (IK Multimedia) that I use as well.

Cheers!

 

[BroKen_H]

I won't pick on the drums...or the too loud vocals. I think you've got that. I liked the bass tones all the way through.
There are a bunch of clicks between the vocal ahs at the beginning of "wanderers" Probably wouldn't be a problem if the vocals were in the mix, but they really stand out and you might as well edit them out. Great guitar tones, but they could have a little more air and a little less mid to fit into the mix better...bit too much reverb on them for my taste as well (but that's taste). Nice tune. Will sound wonderful when everything is balanced.
Like the dreamy echo/reverb in "mysteries." Vocal has a pushy quality (600? 1200?) not sure, but it almost gets grating (starting at "end of the day". Bit too much effect(s) on the guitar solo (and volume).
Nice intro on "Coloured Dreams"! I really like this song! You're having loud Ks, like on "covers" and a bit of a sibilant problem (S & Sh).
Hope that gives you a starting point. I'm not trying to be negative, but constructive. I think this is excellent material.

 

[Hugo Huijer]

I'll often use some compression many times, depending on the type of song. It can help fatten it up a bit and/or give it some more presence. When working in the box, this is usually the CLA 2A compressor by Waves. But I only use computer recording for my work stuff. When I do my own music, I record all analog and try to use real drums. If I can't use real drums, then I'll use EZ Drummer, either with the 2A plugin or with one of my hardware compressors, such as the FMR RNLA or a DBX 163x.

Also I'll usually EQ the kit. I have an API 550 plug by Waves that I like for that or some EQs by T-Racks (IK Multimedia) that I use as well.

Cheers!

Thanks for your insight. Always interesting to read about other peoples work methods. If I understand correctly, you apply compressing to the drum tracks to raise the overall/average volume a little? As in, the peaks will remain the same volume, but you are able to raise the volume of another element? Or does your compressor also creates a characteristic sound? The only situation where I use compressors, is to take out some dynamic range, for the sake of volume consistency. For example, if my playing has been a little off (for bass and rythm guitar), or usually where another element of the song should get more attention. I also try side-chain compression occasionally, linking the bass to the kickdrum, but the effect has not been that big in my music.

I won't pick on the drums...or the too loud vocals. I think you've got that. I liked the bass tones all the way through.
There are a bunch of clicks between the vocal ahs at the beginning of "wanderers" Probably wouldn't be a problem if the vocals were in the mix, but they really stand out and you might as well edit them out. Great guitar tones, but they could have a little more air and a little less mid to fit into the mix better...bit too much reverb on them for my taste as well (but that's taste). Nice tune. Will sound wonderful when everything is balanced.
Like the dreamy echo/reverb in "mysteries." Vocal has a pushy quality (600? 1200?) not sure, but it almost gets grating (starting at "end of the day". Bit too much effect(s) on the guitar solo (and volume).
Nice intro on "Coloured Dreams"! I really like this song! You're having loud Ks, like on "covers" and a bit of a sibilant problem (S & Sh).
Hope that gives you a starting point. I'm not trying to be negative, but constructive. I think this is excellent material.

Haha thanks man! Great feedback.

Do you mean that the vocals on 'Wanderers' are a little too loud compared to the rest, or do they just not fit in for you? I assume with the clicks you mean the tiny sounds between words, for example the opening of your mouth where your lips 'pop'? (if you know what I mean lol) I have read about mixers who get rid of every vocal sound between words, including breathing etc. But I have left it all in, I think sometimes it adds to the sensation

About 'Mysteries', could you explain what you mean with 600 and 1200? Are those frequency ranges that you think are boosted a little too much? I don't know if I boosted them but I don't think so. I'll see if I can revisit the guitar sounds, maybe they are indeed a little too loud. I tried to create an exploding sensation with this solo, so I went nuts on the volume, effects and layering lol.

Thanks for you complements on 'Coloured Dreams'. I tried to instrumentally create a sensation of falling asleep after the intro, where the intro is kinda stressfull with big drums and rides, ramping up to a cliff where you fall off (at 01:04), and it's like you have finally fallen asleep. Don't know if it makes sense, but that was what I was trying to create there. I really like how it has turned out. About the sibilant problem: I have heard that before, I think it is also a problem caused by the big reverbs that I use, so the S & Sh's will be even heavier. I tried de-essing some parts by putting the de-esser after the other effects, such as reverb. It helps, but apparantly not enough. Anything else I can do about this, except for re-recording the takes?

 

[cakewalkKaKed]

nice stuff,i listened while browsing .. very enjoyable ...


bookmarked

 

[Hugo Huijer]

nice stuff,i listened while browsing .. very enjoyable ...


bookmarked

Thanks a lot!

 

[BroKen_H]

Haha thanks man! Great feedback.

Do you mean that the vocals on 'Wanderers' are a little too loud compared to the rest, or do they just not fit in for you? I assume with the clicks you mean the tiny sounds between words, for example the opening of your mouth where your lips 'pop'? (if you know what I mean lol) I have read about mixers who get rid of every vocal sound between words, including breathing etc. But I have left it all in, I think sometimes it adds to the sensation

What I meant was: The pops are very noticeable while the vocals are very loud. They are fairly rhythmic and I wasn't sure if they were gleeks and pops or maybe quiet drum taps in an already too quiet drum part... Either way, they didn't fit well.

About 'Mysteries', could you explain what you mean with 600 and 1200? Are those frequency ranges that you think are boosted a little too much? I don't know if I boosted them but I don't think so. I'll see if I can revisit the guitar sounds, maybe they are indeed a little too loud. I tried to create an exploding sensation with this solo, so I went nuts on the volume, effects and layering lol.

Okay, I was rambling a bit...rephrase: Starting at "end of the day" the vocal has a different quality that's a bit grating like you were pushing your voice too hard while recording the take. Yes 600/1200 are Hz that I'm guessing might fix the harshness. Not necessarily that you boosted them on the track, but that they were emphasized by the extra strain on your vocal cords. Do a sweep and find the main frequency and give it a decent cut (4-6dB) then multiply by two and cut less (2-3dB). i.e. if you find the actual offending frequency is 862 Hz, cut that and also 1722 Hz to a lesser degree. If you found the right frequencies (everyone's voice has harsh tones) it will sound a lot cleaner...or you could just retrack the line that's harsh. That would be much easier!

Thanks for you complements on 'Coloured Dreams'. I tried to instrumentally create a sensation of falling asleep after the intro, where the intro is kinda stressfull with big drums and rides, ramping up to a cliff where you fall off (at 01:04), and it's like you have finally fallen asleep. Don't know if it makes sense, but that was what I was trying to create there. I really like how it has turned out. About the sibilant problem: I have heard that before, I think it is also a problem caused by the big reverbs that I use, so the S & Sh's will be even heavier. I tried de-essing some parts by putting the de-esser after the other effects, such as reverb. It helps, but apparantly not enough. Anything else I can do about this, except for re-recording the takes?

What I've done in the past when I have a huge reverb going: Manually attenuate the actual waveform at those points. Zoom way in, find the 'S', make a cut on either side of it, and drag the wave size down considerably. Then listen again and see if it needs more or less. Repeat as necessary. There's a few others (members) I've talked to around here that do similar, as well as with Ks or Bs or Ps when cutting (or high passing) 160-200Hz doesn't help.

Keep up the good work!

 

[Crazy Luke]

I can always tell when an instrument is mixed too low when it makes it's debut in the song, and in the case of "Mysteries" when the drums come in, there's little change in dynamics.
For reference, check out an album called "Avalon" by Roxy Music, which is offers ethereal, yet rhythmically driven songs like yours.
Great songs here!

 

[VomitHatSteve]

I have read about mixers who get rid of every vocal sound between words, including breathing etc. But I have left it all in, I think sometimes it adds to the sensation

Ah. I was going to comment on the lip smacks, 'cause I always find them kind of gross. I wanna hear you singing, not licking my ear. yaknowwhatimean?

Yeah, the drums are really quiet. I'd recommend bringing them up, especially at the beginning of wanderer. Maybe wash them with more 'verb, etc so that they add power with driving too much?

Pretty songs, tho!

 

[Crazy Luke]

Yeah, the drums are really quiet. I'd recommend bringing them up, especially at the beginning of wanderer. Maybe wash them with more 'verb, etc so that they add power with driving too much?

Pretty songs, tho!

Great idea re: a reverb was on drums, VHS. The drums would be more present and perform it's function, while matching the externalism of the other instrumentation.
I use, imo, a good verb/room plugin called Reverberate.

 

[Hugo Huijer]

What I meant was: The pops are very noticeable while the vocals are very loud. They are fairly rhythmic and I wasn't sure if they were gleeks and pops or maybe quiet drum taps in an already too quiet drum part... Either way, they didn't fit well.

Thanks, it is clear to me now that I have to get rid of them. Too much must be annoying, indeed.

Okay, I was rambling a bit...rephrase: Starting at "end of the day" the vocal has a different quality that's a bit grating like you were pushing your voice too hard while recording the take. Yes 600/1200 are Hz that I'm guessing might fix the harshness. Not necessarily that you boosted them on the track, but that they were emphasized by the extra strain on your vocal cords. Do a sweep and find the main frequency and give it a decent cut (4-6dB) then multiply by two and cut less (2-3dB). i.e. if you find the actual offending frequency is 862 Hz, cut that and also 1722 Hz to a lesser degree. If you found the right frequencies (everyone's voice has harsh tones) it will sound a lot cleaner...or you could just retrack the line that's harsh. That would be much easier!

This song was one of the hardest for me to do vocally, as the chorus pushes my vocal ranges a little. I'm very interested in your explanation, could you help me with the 862 Hz/ 1724 Hz theory? Is it true that the wavelength of 2 x 1724 Hz is equal to the wavelength of a single 862 Hz and could therefore resonate the other? Or do I have some reading to do? lol. This kind of theory is exceeding my knowledge at the moment, but I would love to learn about these kind of things and apply it in my recordings.

What I've done in the past when I have a huge reverb going: Manually attenuate the actual waveform at those points. Zoom way in, find the 'S', make a cut on either side of it, and drag the wave size down considerably. Then listen again and see if it needs more or less. Repeat as necessary. There's a few others (members) I've talked to around here that do similar, as well as with Ks or Bs or Ps when cutting (or high passing) 160-200Hz doesn't help.

I have tried that multiple times before, to find the harsh frequencies when a SH/S/TS sound is playing, but I never knew if this was good practice. I will try this thing again! Just one question, should I do this at the start of my FX chain, or near the end? Like, before compression, reverb and other plug-ins, or after?

Keep up the good work!

Thank you very much for the awesome feedback!

 

[Hugo Huijer]

I can always tell when an instrument is mixed too low when it makes it's debut in the song, and in the case of "Mysteries" when the drums come in, there's little change in dynamics.
For reference, check out an album called "Avalon" by Roxy Music, which is offers ethereal, yet rhythmically driven songs like yours.
Great songs here!

I see what you mean, the drums do add a lot to the mix there. I will first simply try raising the volumes of the drum tracks, and see if that already changes a lot. I will post updates here soon, hopefully. Thank you very much for the compliment and the feedback!

 

[Hugo Huijer]

Ah. I was going to comment on the lip smacks, 'cause I always find them kind of gross. I wanna hear you singing, not licking my ear. yaknowwhatimean?

Yeah, the drums are really quiet. I'd recommend bringing them up, especially at the beginning of wanderer. Maybe wash them with more 'verb, etc so that they add power with driving too much?

Pretty songs, tho!

Haha, I think you convinced me there. I will at least reduce the level in between vocal lines. But don't you think at least the breathing is part of it? It always sounds a little static if I can not hear inhaling in between lines.

Great tip about the reverbs on drums. On some of the songs, I already put a spacey room reverb in there. It might just be the thing that I could use on Wanderers as well.

Thanks for your comment!

 

[BroKen_H]

A little music theory. Briefly: When you find a frequency that you'd like to cut (especially in resonant instruments, like voice or strings) you also want to cut the octave of that frequency (and occasionally the sub-octave (the one below) . Each octave doubles the Hz. i.e. A=440Hz is standard tuning, therefore A an octave above would be 880Hz, 1760Hz, etc. the sub-octave would, of course, be 220Hz. Hope this helps.

AFA cutting the Ss, I'm talking about the source...the actual recorded track. Physically find the S/T/TS/K/P, whatever and reduce it in the actual wave. So the VERY beginning of the signal chain.