Noob PC recording question

  • Thread starter Thread starter notsram
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notsram said:
You're absolutely right. I was contemplating a USB A/I, thanks to the advice of the posters above... but only had a brief glance at a couple, and didn't realise they came with built in Midi ports. How thick am I!

I'll now look at them a bit more closely. This does seem like the way to go and, as you point out, it'll save me having to buy a new midi-USB cable.

The Steinberg you linked looks pretty good, especially as it comes with a version of Cubase, which I've used in the past. I know it's a cut down version, but it'll probably be more than adequate for my needs for a while!

Thanks!
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I get a bit of stick here for my hobby-horse railing against cheapskate AI mnftctrs who don't fit MIDI ports to some of their budget (and NOT so budget!) AIs.

Peoples often respond that "everything is USB these days" It ain't. Then the MIDI-USB cable is trotted out as a final catchall but I remember some 5 years ago that peeps were having driver problems with those!

If anyone is at all serious about MIDI get a fekkin' interface with DIN ports and there is no better software than Cubase for MIDI (started life as a sequencer after all!) even if you use Reaper for everything else.

Dave.
 
Yeah, my first version of Cubase (back in about 1800AD) was simply a sequencer. I think I'll probably try and get to grips with Reaper. Seems pretty good and it's also cheap. I don't have much of a budget and looks like that's all going to go on the A/I (and a couple of midi cables, since I'm pretty sure I don't have any, any more).

I'm curently swaying between the Steinberg 45840 UR22 MKI (£95) and the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (£129). Both look more than adequate for my needs, but the Focusrite seems to have more features that I'll probably use (and it's a lot prettier!). If anyone has any suggestions or experience of anything around that price range, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks again for all your help, guys. I'm new here, but this seems to be a very friendly forum!
 
notsram said:
Yeah, my first version of Cubase (back in about 1800AD) was simply a sequencer. I think I'll probably try and get to grips with Reaper. Seems pretty good and it's also cheap. I don't have much of a budget and looks like that's all going to go on the A/I (and a couple of midi cables, since I'm pretty sure I don't have any, any more).

I'm curently swaying between the Steinberg 45840 UR22 MKI (£95) and the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (£129). Both look more than adequate for my needs, but the Focusrite seems to have more features that I'll probably use (and it's a lot prettier!). If anyone has any suggestions or experience of anything around that price range, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks again for all your help, guys. I'm new here, but this seems to be a very friendly forum!
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What are the features of the 2i4 that attract you?

Dave.
 
I think you're missing something. When you plug your synth into the computer using the midi-usb cable, you were expecting sounds, but you did not mention what you wanted to use to generate the sounds. And you said you wanted to use the sounds out of your keyboard. To do that, you need an audio interface to record from the Main Outs.

So, you really need the AI. You are correct in that you don't want to use the soundcard in your PC. Dave and Dave (ecc83 and DM60... I'm another Dave, there's too many of us in this thread) are correct when they say get an interface with Midi. ecc83 is wrong when he says you can't do midi with usb. Absolutely you can, I've been doing it for years. But in this case, I'll agree with him to get an interface with midi built in. (Still USB Dave!!)

If you want to record the sounds from your synth, you'll have to connect the audio outs to the interface.

Latency is not a problem with audio. Every AI has the ability to provide Direct Monitor so you don't have to worry about latency. Latency becomes an issue when you want to use soft-synths or virtual instruments in real time. But you said you want to use your keyboard sounds, so you can Direct Monitor as you're recording.

Here's another trick, as you're recording your audio, you can capture the midi data. You can then edit to correct any flubs or change a passage or whatevers, play it back to your synth and re-record the audio part again. Copy n paste whole sections, create loops, etc.

The focusrite is a good unit and much cheaper than the ka6. Drivers are good and it too has low latency. 6ms!! You can't hear that. But again, if you're recording the audio from your keyboard, you don't need to worry about latency.

I like Cubase, but there is no reason why you can't use any other DAW program. If you have reaper already, then learn how to use it. And pay for the license. $60 is cheap and we don't encourage theft at this site. The learning curve can be steep, but once you're past it, you can concentrate on being creative.
 
Yep, I didn't know that I needed an A/I :) I wasn't budgeting for one, so it's a good thing I asked (and have received a lot of very helpful answers).

As you rightly point out, the Focusright has built in midi ports. Hopefully, that'll be my problem solved. I'm leaning towards that one. It seems very good value. It has a good feature set, a LOT of excellent reviews, and also comes with a load of plugins (that may or may not be useful) and a bucket load of samples (which certainly will). I've got some old sample CDs, but they're all 20 years or so old, so hopefully the ones that come with the Focusrite will give me a good basic selection of some more modern stuff.

I completely agree that Reaper is excellent value. I have a few weeks to play around with it before I have to buy it, so plenty of time to decide if it's right for me. I loved Cubase when I used to use it, but even the cheapest version is more than twice the cost of Reaper.
 
Dave/Chilli (you can call me Mac if it helps!) . I did NOT say MIDI will not work over USB. Of course it does. I said you cannot do it ALL over USB! (naughty Mod, misquoting the plebs.)

If you have one of the many keyboards/controllers about now, yes they interface via USB but then you are stuffed! You have no MIDI inputs!

I shall say it again! MIDI costs peanuts to implement on an AI (or indeed many guitar amps) so the mnfctrs cannot even claim to be saving the punter a wedge by leaving it off. Panel space might be an issue on some busy, compact designs (but even here it is obvious to me that they took a design decision NOT to include it!) but peeps like RME squeeze in a connector and breakout cable. My 2496 cards do the same...Fork! Even the ancient SB cards had a game port that could be used for MIDI with the appropriate cable. #

Dave (aka ecc83, aka Mac)
 
Ah, the happy days of trying to configure my Soundblaster 16 (I think that was the model) to work with midi. Endless IRQ errors. IIRC, the only way to get it to work reliably was to take out my network card...
 
ecc83 said:
Even the ancient SB cards had a game port that could be used for MIDI with the appropriate cable.
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Wow, I remember those cards.

Dave, I misquoted you a little bit, but, it was, it was... poetic license without the poem part. ;)

I have always agreed with you to use midi DIN connectors if the user has more than one midi device. Daisy chain them together. But honestly, with everyone using VSTi's these days, most everyone only needs one midi controller and that controller is going to have a usb connection. Rare is the person who has several keyboards and synth sound modules to tie together.
 
Something that most don't consider (until, like I did, you ruin a take): When you are recording with a microphone (i.e. vocal or guitar) you want everything to be quiet in the room. Make sure the sounds on your PC are suppressed (not sounding) because there's nothing quite so distracting while you are trying to wail out your latest vocal perfection as "You've Got Mail!" piping through your cans...or recording that perfect guitar solo with "DING" chiming in at an unexpected point.
There are other tweaks that can help a system if you don't think you're getting the performance you think your machine should. There is an optimization guide at Sweetwater that is excellent except for their advice about shutting down ALL Services... that can earn you a lot of trouble. Google Black Viper for a better solution.
 
BroKen_H said:
Something that most don't consider (until, like I did, you ruin a take): When you are recording with a microphone (i.e. vocal or guitar) you want everything to be quiet in the room. Make sure the sounds on your PC are suppressed (not sounding) because there's nothing quite so distracting while you are trying to wail out your latest vocal perfection as "You've Got Mail!" piping through your cans...or recording that perfect guitar solo with "DING" chiming in at an unexpected point.
There are other tweaks that can help a system if you don't think you're getting the performance you think your machine should. There is an optimization guide at Sweetwater that is excellent except for their advice about shutting down ALL Services... that can earn you a lot of trouble. Google Black Viper for a better solution.
Click to expand...

That optimisation guide looks like it may be very helpful. Thanks!

And yes, background noises can be an annoyance! I learned years ago to mute all my PC notifications. Fortunately, I live alone (or will be doing pretty soon, hence my wanting to get back into recording), so don't have much general noise in the house. The walls are pretty thick so I rarely hear anything from the neighbours and it means I can sing/play at a reasonable volume without disturbing them :)
 
I took the plunge yesterday and ordered the Focusrite. Along with a couple of new midi cables (did find my old ones, but they've been in a box full of junk for the past 10 years and looked a bit battered!). It's arriving today so, hopefully, that'll be my midi and audio recording problems sorted out.

Thanks again for your help and advice, everyone :)
 
Very happy to report that my computer and SY85 are now talking to each other via the Scarlett :)
 
notsram said:
Very happy to report that my computer and SY85 are now talking to each other via the Scarlett :)
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Cool.

While bored and surfing the net, I found a VSTi for the SY85. Don't know if it's any good, but the demo sounded nice.
Something like that might be useful if you can't get your floppies working.
 
It seems to be working very well so far. I've downloaded the free trial of Cubase elements as it's more familiar to me than anything else and have sequenced a couple of tracks. I've had a few teething problems, but they're partly down to me not being used to the software and partly down to the simple fact that I've forgotten pretty much everything I used to know about Midi settings on the SY85. Guess I'll just have to bite the bullet, sit down and read the midi section in the manual...

Thanks again for all your help. I'm sure I'll have more daft questions soon!
 
Chili said:
Wow, I remember those cards.

Dave, I misquoted you a little bit, but, it was, it was... poetic license without the poem part. ;)

I have always agreed with you to use midi DIN connectors if the user has more than one midi device. Daisy chain them together. But honestly, with everyone using VSTi's these days, most everyone only needs one midi controller and that controller is going to have a usb connection. Rare is the person who has several keyboards and synth sound modules to tie together.
Click to expand...

Fairy nuff but! MIDI is SO cheap to implement and SUCH a universal "World Standard" (and we have precious few of those) that I don't want to see its basic functions lost for a ha'poth or tar.

I do not have your experience of course but if as you say the need to connect another MIDI device is rare that is indeed fortunate because without a DIN input they are stuffed anyway!

So I shall keep calling manfctrs that don't fit MIDI ports beancounting, shortsighted bsdts!

Dave.
 
I wondered lonely as a synth
whose mid ports have ceased to be
when all at once, I saw a crowd,
a host of midi USB(s).

There you go... poem (loosely speaking!) to utiliise licence with :)
 
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