I want to learn drums

[Nola]

But I'm in an apartment.

Would my best option be an electric kit? If so, can you recommend one? Should I get a real kit and get some type of muting device for all the drums?
If not, what other options do I have? Right now I'm using some chop sticks are drum sticks, my stomp box for a kick drum through my amp, and then hitting my kitchen pan as a high hat and a book as a snare. So, it's pretty ghetto. But before investing money I wanted to see if I have any knack for it.

My goal is to tighten my guitar playing because I didn't practice for a few years and got pretty sloppy, and beyond that maybe understand rhythm better for programming drums/thinking like a drummer and just exploring this side of music. And maybe if I get an electric kit I can play that instead of programming drums, though I really don't know much about those kits and how good they sound.

Anyway, this instrument is totally foreign to me so I'm curious to hear thoughts on the best path for this situation.

 

[bruiser1964]

I was on this journey, I bought an electronic kit because I thought it wouldn't annoy the missus, I got an Octapad, Roland snare, hihat, and kick, the sounds are good but it took a long time getting used to it and trying to learn a new instrument and the wife thought the constant tappity tap tap was the most annoying thing she had ever heard. And the midi delay was a headache.
I sold it all apart from the Octapad which may still have its uses, bought a Mapex kit from an internet dealer and cymbals off the bay some new skins and put it in the shed, I'm having loads of fun and I don't take the piss out of drummers any more since I realised its really hard
If you can make noise without getting yelled at, get a real kit. if not get a drum machine and programme it TBH i think that is a more satisfying experience than rtying to compromise with an e-kit.
Best
Bruce

 

[Nola]

I was on this journey, I bought an electronic kit because I thought it wouldn't annoy the missus, I got an Octapad, Roland snare, hihat, and kick, the sounds are good but it took a long time getting used to it and trying to learn a new instrument and the wife thought the constant tappity tap tap was the most annoying thing she had ever heard. And the midi delay was a headache.
I sold it all apart from the Octapad which may still have its uses, bought a Mapex kit from an internet dealer and cymbals off the bay some new skins and put it in the shed, I'm having loads of fun and I don't take the piss out of drummers any more since I realised its really hard
If you can make noise without getting yelled at, get a real kit. if not get a drum machine and programme it TBH i think that is a more satisfying experience than rtying to compromise with an e-kit.
Best
Bruce

Thanks for the first hand experience, Bruce.

So I'm currently programming drums and getting better at that.
Maybe I'll keep going with my ghetto jug band drum kit to work on "real" drums/rhythm then take that to the drum machine and program. Is that a good plan if I can't make much noise? Because I do want to somehow learn how to drum (actually moving my limbs), at least on a basic level, b/c I think it will improve me as a guitarist/musician.

 

[ibleedburgundy]

Electronic drum kits always end in disappointment IMO. All this technology and they still can't beat the classic drum set from 60 years ago.

If you want to tighten up your guitar playing, practice with the metronome religiously. Start ridiculously absurdly stupidly slow.

 

[Nola]

If you want to tighten up your guitar playing, practice with the metronome religiously. Start ridiculously absurdly stupidly slow.

Yeah, exactly, that's what I've been doing on temp of 45! The metronome has a great feature where you can make it go silent then come back in later, so you can see how good you are without it for some bars, too. It's actually fun.

But I still want to actually get 3 or 4 limbs moving at different times like a real drummer. I just feel like this somehow makes someone a better musician if you can think on your own instrument percussively rather than just harmonic/melody. I'll just stick to my ghetto jug band because it sounds like the electric kits stink. Is there any way to severely mute a real kit for apartment practice? If so I'd get a kick and snare and hit hat.

 

[Greg_L]

I certainly think that being a drummer has made me better at other stuff.

Ekits do mostly suck, but with one you can at least learn the limb independence and some of the chops to be a real drummer. They're not real drum loud, but they aren't quiet either. They tap tap tap tap. A pissy neighbor will probably hear it. Apartment walls and floors aren't high quality. But it's maybe worth a shot.

A muted real kit will still be loud enough to aggravate people.

 

[Robus]

I'm thinking along the same lines Nola. I hope to grab an electronic kit for the same reason. Taking up bass in a serious
way improved my guitar playing more than anything I had done in 35 years of playing. I hope drums will do the same.

 

[Nola]

I certainly think that being a drummer has made me better at other stuff.

I'm thinking along the same lines Nola. I hope to grab an electronic kit for the same reason. Taking up bass in a serious
way improved my guitar playing more than anything I had done in 35 years of playing. I hope drums will do the same.

Exactly, guys. This was a revelation. I know it's not really because most guitarists practice with a metronome (I never did/didn't take lessons, etc so I have catching up to do). BUT, I think getting 3 or 4 limbs moving independently must do something to help with any other musical endeavor. And we don't do that when just practicing on a metronome as guitarists. I mean I can feel my brain hurting as I practice on my homemade kit, and then when I do other things, they feel easier. I don't know if this is real or placebo, but I like it.

Robus, how did you get more serious about bass? I'd like to do that, too. Like what exercises did you do to improve dramatically? I think you once mentioned playing behind the beat instead of on it...is it stuff like that?

 

[Robus]

Nola, I'd pissed around on bass for years, playing like a guitar player does--too many notes, too little groove. When I decided to get serious, of course the first thing I had to do was buy a nice bass. Then I just started studying and playing many hours a day. Fortunately my work situation allowed that. I started with the Hal Leonard Bass Method book by Ed Friedland, which I highly recommend. Then Bass Grooves by the same author, also highly recommended, and a lot of other books. I learned to read bass clef and studied a lot of songs, especially genres like Motown, R&B, Funk, and Country. There's a great site with good quality, free notation for a bunch of Motown and R&B tunes, if it's still up.

All that began 3 years ago this summer. I'm no more than an intermediate on bass, but miles ahead of where I started. When I began playing more guitar again to record my own music, I noticed first and foremost that my timing had improved. Also, I was seeing harmonic combinations that I wouldn't have thought about before, because I was hearing songs from the bottom up, if that makes sense. I was also playing fewer notes, but more musical ones.

In my opinion, every new instrument you study improves your musicianship. Ultimately it's all simple: play cleanly, musically, and in time. It's the foundation of every genre. Stuff like playing behind the beat or ahead of the beat comes from hearing, which comes from practice.

If you decide to take up bass, my strongest advice would be to learn finger style. Playing with a pick will come naturally and is worth practicing for when you need that sound. But the feeling you get through your fingertips connects you to the instrument and to the music in a different and deeper way. YMMV etc.

BTW, easlern has bought himself a Fender Jazz--my weapon of choice--and is having a blast with it last I heard.

Oh, and try flat wounds!

 

[Nola]

Cool robus! That's all great info; thanks for that.

I have a p-bass with flatwounds on it, and i put foam behind the saddle to mute it more b/c i love the motown bass sound!

I can play it with the fingers okay, but I usually use a pick just because my timing is better with the pick and the dynamics are more consistent (probably just signs I need to practice more).

 

[Robus]

You got the bass, then. If it can't be done on a P bass with flats, it's probably not worth doing. It took me about a year to feel in control fingerstyle. But it wasn't all drudgery. There was incremental improvement along the way, and since. Technique is critical. Early on, I saw one of Scott Levine's youtube videos that explained the technique I've been using ever since. There are various approaches to muting, but two things you absolutely must get right are alternate picking between the first and index finger, and follow-through. And of course there are oddballs who do it "wrong" and sound great!

I think this was the one:

 

[Mr Clean]

I got an ekit to learn on and use it to trigger EZDrummer. No latency issues. Sounds better than the stock kits in the brain. I got a older Roland kit, second hand, works awesome for my needs. However, I have a room where I can play them loud, anytime. Best thing I bought in a long time, musically.

 

[fat_fleet]

If you want to play a real kit in your position you basically have 2 choices- Rent a rehearsal space, or move.

When I decided to learn drums, I lived in a 3rd story apartment in the city. I had a rehearsal spot but my band and 3 others practiced there and there wasn't space for another kit, and it was too noisy to record there anyways. So I looked for a single-unit house outside the city. We checked out about 12 places that year and rejected them all for either "Too close to the neighbors" or "Not enough space". It took about 10 months to find the place I live now, which is on a nature preserve about 500 yards from our nearest neighbor. Perfect from a recording standpoint, if a little overkill.

But also people play and track drums in suburban houses all the time with a little soundproofing. The bass player in my last band had a house in the city very close to other houses, so we built a jam room in his basement.. built partitions on all side and boarded it (and the ceiling) with Homasote 440 and crammed insulation behind all of it. We could play full volume down there with the drummer and it would barely be audible at the end of his yard, and we were very fucking loud. Tracked an ep down there on a Korg standalone and it actually came out half decent.

But the place I live now is great. I'm glad I took the time and made the effort to move. It saved me years worth of half-measures, like getting an e-kit or tracking a practice amp. Nothing against e-kits or practice amps.. people transcend both limitations all the time and get great results, but half-measures in recording are like mistakes- they stack up with the track count.

 

[Greg_L]

If you want to play a real kit in your position you basically have 2 choices- Rent a rehearsal space, or move.

When I decided to learn drums, I lived in a 3rd story apartment in the city. I had a rehearsal spot but my band and 3 others practiced there and there wasn't space for another kit, and it was too noisy to record there anyways. So I looked for a single-unit house outside the city. We checked out about 12 places that year and rejected them all for either "Too close to the neighbors" or "Not enough space". It took about 10 months to find the place I live now, which is on a nature preserve about 500 yards from our nearest neighbor. Perfect from a recording standpoint, if a little overkill.

People play and track drums in suburban houses all the time with a little soundproofing. The bass player in my last band had a house in the city very close to other houses, so we built a jam room in his basement.. built partitions on all side and boarded it (and the ceiling) with Homasote 440 and crammed insulation behind it. We could play full volume down there with the drummer and it would barely be audible at the end of his yard, and we were very fucking loud. Tracked an ep down there on a Korg standalone and it actually came out half decent.

But the place I live now is great. I'm glad I took the time and made the effort to move. It saved me years worth of half-measures. Like getting an e-kit and using a practice amp are half-measures. Nothing against e-kits or practice amps.. people transcend both limitations all the time and get great results, but half-measures in recording are like mistakes- they stack up with the track count.

Thread winner. ^^^^

 

[BroKen_H]

If all you want to do is learn, look into practice pads. DW makes a 5 piece setup for under $200. The pads are pretty realistic to what a drum feels like. Problem is learning cymbal/hi-hat techniques would have to come separate. But it is a bit cheaper than buying a cheap e-kit that doesn't feel anything like real drums.
I have an e-kit in my home and find it difficult and frustrating to play, but I also have a nice set of Pearls at the church that I play every week. BTW, my e-kit wasn't even a cheap one @ $750 and I need to upgrade it to mesh heads to get some feel in the kit...don't know how a piece of flat rubber on a flat board feels better than what these companies come up with (maybe the designers never played a real drum...best guess), but you've got to look at $1700+ kits to get anything like real drum feel, and more likely $3000.
You can buy a DW Performance Series set for that $3k and have a over a grand left to soundproof and insulate...assuming you have the space. I've run the e-kit gambit and wish I hadn't. I'm sure there are lots of people who are very happy with e-kits, but as one who has an actual drum set, it is a bit of a let down.

So, depending on what you're looking at for a budget (and I would never suggest to someone who's just starting to learn that they need a $3k investment...) I would find a way to get a real kit working, or just learn using practice pads. You can build your own set pretty cheap.

 

[BroKen_H]

BTW, if your apartment is not on the bottom floor, your downstairs neighbors are still going to hear every time you kick the pedal...

 

[andrushkiwt]

If all you want to do is learn, look into practice pads. DW makes a 5 piece setup for under $200. The pads are pretty realistic to what a drum feels like. Problem is learning cymbal/hi-hat techniques would have to come separate. But it is a bit cheaper than buying a cheap e-kit that doesn't feel anything like real drums.
I have an e-kit in my home and find it difficult and frustrating to play, but I also have a nice set of Pearls at the church that I play every week. BTW, my e-kit wasn't even a cheap one @ $750 and I need to upgrade it to mesh heads to get some feel in the kit...don't know how a piece of flat rubber on a flat board feels better than what these companies come up with (maybe the designers never played a real drum...best guess), but you've got to look at $1700+ kits to get anything like real drum feel, and more likely $3000.
You can buy a DW Performance Series set for that $3k and have a over a grand left to soundproof and insulate...assuming you have the space. I've run the e-kit gambit and wish I hadn't. I'm sure there are lots of people who are very happy with e-kits, but as one who has an actual drum set, it is a bit of a let down.

So, depending on what you're looking at for a budget (and I would never suggest to someone who's just starting to learn that they need a $3k investment...) I would find a way to get a real kit working, or just learn using practice pads. You can build your own set pretty cheap.

think it was determined a few posts back that ekits are still too loud to be smashing on. I'd agree...clackclacktaptapclcikclcak. probably annoying as hell.

 

[Nola]

hey thanks broken i was looking at those pads yesterday. what would i do for a high hat.

this looks fine and cheap to learn how to move all the limbs independently, but i'd definitely need something for a high hat.

Amazon.com: DW Drum Workshop CPPADTS5 Go Anywhere Pad Set with Stand: Musical Instruments

 

[Robus]

Disadvantage to the pads is that it is more difficult to record and analyze your performance.

 

[Nola]

Disadvantage to the pads is that it is more difficult to record and analyze your performance.

yeah, but i could always record it on a phone with metronome to see how the hits are.

i think the pads are a good idea until i move somewhere better. but, the lack of high hat stinks...if there's some solution to that i'd probably get the pads. i'm most interested in getting 3 or 4 limbs moving, in time, and at once than recording or playing a real kit at this point. it's more for coordination.