This City - alternative-pop-rock

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andrushkiwt

andrushkiwt

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Hey guys, old song redone with the new equipment and learned techniques from some helpful members. How did this turn out? I spent considerable time...maybe 2 weeks on the mix, but alternated with another one i'll put up next week so I didn't get too fatigued listening to the same thing over and over. I did buy an AT4040 last week, but it is not used on these vocals. The vocals are with the same Sterling ST51 I've been using. I tried using a slight boost around 3.5khz on the vocals for a more upfront, intense sound, in addition to the mix having a sloped boost in the highs. How do they sound? I also used some verb on the snare (flat plate, minimal pre-delay) for a more "live-feel". Does it work?



Burn it away and taste all the ashes,
I feel her passionately.
Catch this city and leave when you want to,
I'll waste here without you, alone.

When she breaks down,
and she found out,
I stood right there...alone.

Catch this city and wait by the ocean,
I feel her emotions on me.
Catch this city and sleep on the sidewalk,
you whisper when we talk alone.

I won't be so kind, you give it all...
and I won't break.

It's too late.
 
It sounds pretty polished already, as usual. I need to give it a couple more listens before commenting on the mix. It always surprises me to hear that you have taken two weeks on the mix. For me, the songwriting is by far the most time consuming part of the process, and writing lyrics most of all. Maybe I should invest more time in my mixes. ;)
 
Robus said:
It sounds pretty polished already, as usual. I need to give it a couple more listens before commenting on the mix. It always surprises me to hear that you have taken two weeks on the mix. For me, the songwriting is by far the most time consuming part of the process, and writing lyrics most of all. Maybe I should invest more time in my mixes. ;)
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The "song" is always finished way before there are any lyrics to it, and in about 10-20 mins. That's just the way I like to approach it - I try to write in non-specific, vague phrases that are open to interpretation by the listener. Then, I focus on "top lines" and words that are dramatic or allude to something. The melody is so much more important to me than any one line, but I do consider keeping it honest, open, and deep. The vowel sounds are what I start with for any single phrase, then I search for a word that fits it, then I complete the line. Almost backwards from what many do. I won't spend more than 10 mins on lyrics or else I'm trying too hard IMO.

But yes, taking my time with the mix seems to pay off better. If I can keep myself honest to it, I'll take a day away from it and listen to other things. I'm trying to record and mix commercial-pop=rock stuff, so I have a lot to compare it to via radio or my cd's... looking forward to your specific critiques, thanks dude
 
I'd be over my head to comment on the mix, it sounds pro to my ears.. and the arrangement seems very good. The song is catchy as well. Nice work. Are you using real drums? (not software)
 
Ashway said:
I'd be over my head to comment on the mix, it sounds pro to my ears.. and the arrangement seems very good. The song is catchy as well. Nice work. Are you using real drums? (not software)
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Thanks Ashway. Amp sims and Superior Drummer. The kick needs some bottom to it, now that I listen on my work buds.
 
I always enjoy your songs and the mixes are always really really good. I follow you on Soundcloud.

What do you use to record guitars? What about plugins etc?
 
PhilLondon said:
I always enjoy your songs and the mixes are always really really good. I follow you on Soundcloud.

What do you use to record guitars? What about plugins etc?
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Hey Phil, thanks, although I think there's lots of room for improvement. But I do appreciate it and that's very kind of you.

I use budget stuff, really. AudioBox USB interface, Sterling 51 mic, Studio One Pro, Superior Drummer and stock plugins. I have a Gibson Studio Gothic guitar, Stagg bass, and Recabinet 4 with Lepou amps. Untreated room. HD280 Pro headphones.

I don't believe an expensive compressor is going to make anything sound "radio", so I have been focusing on the basics and the reasons for using various tools.
 
Okay, I like the mix a lot. You've created a lot of openness in the center, which is something I'm a fan of. As a result, the vocal stand out cleanly. It sounds like you haven't got as much doubling of guitars either, or if you have, you've mixed the doubles low. Good. I can hear more detail in things like the delay on that guitar. Your mixes are always good, but sometimes a little too crowded for my tastes. This isn't crowded at all. I like this mix best of the ones I've heard from you recently. The vocal on the opening verse is panning left of center for me--I assume that's intentional.

I'm not coming up with many suggestions for improvement just now.
 
Robus said:
Okay, I like the mix a lot. You've created a lot of openness in the center, which is something I'm a fan of. As a result, the vocal stand out cleanly. It sounds like you haven't got as much doubling of guitars either, or if you have, you've mixed the doubles low. Good. I can hear more detail in things like the delay on that guitar. Your mixes are always good, but sometimes a little too crowded for my tastes. This isn't crowded at all. I like this mix best of the ones I've heard from you recently. The vocal on the opening verse is panning left of center for me--I assume that's intentional.

I'm not coming up with many suggestions for improvement just now.
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The hard panned distortion rhythms are doubled. The 75% supporting octaves and such are doubled. The verse guitar is one take copied and pasted. It was a picking-only section, so that would have been tough to play identical.

Each set has a different virtual mic and cabinet. That helps too. And yes, that intro vocal is panned 25 L. I wanted the loud vocals to be distinct and different and grab attention, so I moved the ones before that to the left sidr.
 
Good mix. Everything seems to have it's place.
I like the contrast in vocal tone between the quiet verses and loud chorus.

There's something weird about the chorus vox FX tho that makes it sound like you've got some really heavy vocal processing. Something about the way you crack your voice and the different layers going on makes it sound like electronic glitches. (Not quite the kind you get from autotune, but similar)

I might also second guess your panning on the verses. The vox are distinctly leaning left, and everything else is distinctly right.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
Good mix. Everything seems to have it's place.
I like the contrast in vocal tone between the quiet verses and loud chorus.

There's something weird about the chorus vox FX tho that makes it sound like you've got some really heavy vocal processing. Something about the way you crack your voice and the different layers going on makes it sound like electronic glitches. (Not quite the kind you get from autotune, but similar)

I might also second guess your panning on the verses. The vox are distinctly leaning left, and everything else is distinctly right.
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Hey thanks Steve. the contrast is probably due to a single track (though with a copied and pasted stereo chorus along with it) in the verses but a doubled tracked chorus.

What sounds like heavy processing is probably the doubled tracks - the same effects are affecting the verse vocals since they are on the same bus, so there's nothing different about the chorus vox than the fact that they're doubled. Perhaps there's more technique to doubling vocals than what I've done - i'll look into that. The tiny areas were my voice hits those cracks are probably slightly different on one take than they are on the other, so you probably just have really good ears for that and are picking it up. think that might be it? again, the chorus has two vocals takes, so i'm guessing you're picking up the nuances of one take when up against the other.

the intro (1st verse) vocals are panned left for effect, the second verse is dead center.
 
So I see some techniques for double tracked vocals are: panning slightly to each side, compressing one set much heavier than the other, leaving reverb off one set and adding delay to it instead... not one size fits all, but these are some ideas I can try for when I decide to thicken it up with a double take.
 
I thought this was really good. Very polished.

Levels on everything are well balanced. Tone on everything sounds good and appropriate for the genre.

No real issues that I can hear. Good sound.
 
TripleM said:
I thought this was really good. Very polished.

Levels on everything are well balanced. Tone on everything sounds good and appropriate for the genre.

No real issues that I can hear. Good sound.
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Hey thanks. Always something there to improve, but I do appreciate it. Thanks Triple
 
andrushkiwt said:
Hey thanks Steve. the contrast is probably due to a single track (though with a copied and pasted stereo chorus along with it) in the verses but a doubled tracked chorus.

What sounds like heavy processing is probably the doubled tracks - the same effects are affecting the verse vocals since they are on the same bus, so there's nothing different about the chorus vox than the fact that they're doubled. Perhaps there's more technique to doubling vocals than what I've done - i'll look into that. The tiny areas were my voice hits those cracks are probably slightly different on one take than they are on the other, so you probably just have really good ears for that and are picking it up. think that might be it? again, the chorus has two vocals takes, so i'm guessing you're picking up the nuances of one take when up against the other.

the intro (1st verse) vocals are panned left for effect, the second verse is dead center.
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You know, on a second listen, a de-esser might help a lot actually. The chorus (effect) is really emphasizing the sibilants.

Oh yeah, you do pan back to the center on subsequent verses. cool.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
You know, on a second listen, a de-esser might help a lot actually. The chorus (effect) is really emphasizing the sibilants.

Oh yeah, you do pan back to the center on subsequent verses. cool.
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It has to be my technique. I need to work on how i'm singing those words, because I have a de-esser and it's floored. Its threshold is literally at -40db and reducing the sibilant words about 11db's at the most. I have a pop filter, but that doesn't seem to do anything for esses. I have a slight bump on the master in the 8khz area and up, on a 1.5 db slope. That isn't much. It has to be how I'm singing. I have a jaw issue - underbite - and it gets in the way of singing, eating, sleeping, etc...
 
The vocals sound really good to me. The background vocals are a real nice touch. I think the crashes are a little weak maybe but we do what we can with what we've got. Maybe some compression can give them some sustain that might help, or double them w/ a sample? That's really all I can hear that I'd like to see improved I think. Every time you work on this one it gets better, really like it.
 
easlern said:
The vocals sound really good to me. The background vocals are a real nice touch. I think the crashes are a little weak maybe but we do what we can with what we've got. Maybe some compression can give them some sustain that might help, or double them w/ a sample? That's really all I can hear that I'd like to see improved I think. Every time you work on this one it gets better, really like it.
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cool thanks. i don't like the NY Avatar cymbals in Superior Drummer. Those were the best sounding to me, and there a much worse options. I need to do some research on which packs have more sustained/stronger cymbals, though perhaps there's something within SD to change/edit that.
 
I think it's a great mix! Very polished. I like the tune too. People may start saying I never have nits and always praise people's music, but a lot of the stuff in the clinic now is really good..like this one. Nothing to really criticize
great tune man
 
Are you using a 4001 for the bass? I love the tone! Your guitars and vocals are amazing as always. Love the effect on "It's too late". Always amazes me to hear how well you do bottom end in cans. The crashes tend not to ring out, but I see that was already noted. I kind of like the way the sibilance sounds. The word "break" is very hard to understand, but I love the effect you're doing there where it goes from out of focus and a bit back to sharp and in your face.
 
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