Feedback on Alternative Mix please? "Waiting"

[andrushkiwt]

I didn't say anything about "style" or genre. I only spoke on the mix. I think it's real bad.

haha, i seriously would like to get into this here.

1. you say take out the cuts - there are maybe 2, 1db cuts on the guitars in the low mids, so, you're saying zero cuts is the thing? that goes against what most people, including yourself, probably do.
2. you say take out the boosts. there is 1 thing boosted and that's a db around 13khz. lol. there is nothing else boosted greg.
3. you say strip off the compression! the 1.4:1 master compressor? that's ruining the mix for you?

point: i don't think you know what you're talking about. i do, however, believe you don't like the mix. that's ok. but the things you say don't make-a-sense-eh?

 

[Greg_L]

point: i don't think you know what you're talking about.

That's fine then. Why do you want me to explain further if you don't think I know what I'm talking about? That makes no sense. If you wan to defend your bad mix, I can't stop you. I just shared my thoughts on it. Thoughts you asked for. They're not what you wanted to hear, so here we are.

 

[andrushkiwt]

That's fine then. Why do you want me to explain further if you don't think I know what I'm talking about? That makes no sense. If you wan to defend your bad mix, I can't stop you. I just shared my thoughts on it. Thoughts you asked for. They're not what you wanted to hear, so here we are.

jesus christ man, you don't see the point there? none of those things are happening. i think you are angry because you've spent tens of thousands of dollars over decades while people like me who write songs have spent $300 and in one year are getting decent results. they aren't the greatest, far from it, but i;m here to learn. that's why i post here. unfortunately for you, this is my posting, so i have a right to question what you say, do i not? if not...ok then, greg, thanks for saying this is the worst thing you've ever heard. i have heard probably as much music as you have in my life and I would be inclined to say it isn't near being that bad...but is very far from perfect. the end.

 

[Greg_L]

I'm not angry at anything. And I didn't say this is the worst thing I've ever heard. You're over reacting. You don't know what you don't know - even with your extensive one whole year of experience. Your ears still have a lot of training to do. It's cool. You're just not hearing at a high enough level yet to appreciate what I've said. I do understand.

If you want to make this a competition though, you will lose, so let's keep it friendly, yeah? I'm not competing. You asked for feedback, I gave you some. I thought you could handle it. My mistake.

 

[andrushkiwt]

you asked for feedback, I gave you some.

you gave feedback for things that do not exist, while (paraphrasing) saying it's one of the worst things you've heard. how is that helpful? a mixing competition? yes greg, your $5,000 console and twenty years experience will beat my mixes. is that not obvious to everyone?

 

[Greg_L]

They do exist. You missed the broader, simpler, and more profound point because you're focused on anger and butthut. Go back and read your posts, then read mine, and try again. Until you actually understand what's going on here I can't help you any further. I'd like to, but I can't until you have a calmer and more rational understanding of these basic concepts.

And stop making assumptions about me. You have no idea what you're talking about. If you want to know something about me, just ask. Stop making assumptions.

 

[Greg_L]

One more thing....your reactions tell me that you're in a very dangerous place....as far as experience and knowledge goes. You're not a complete clueless absolute beginner, but you don't have any practical useful experience either. You're in that new-hobby zone where you know just enough to be dangerous. Like a pilot that can take off but he cant land. You think you know stuff, but like I said, you don't know what you don't know. You clearly are not hearing things the way they are. Everyone enters and hopefully passes through this zone. It happens with any field, hobby, career, etc. What helps you through it faster is not lashing out and getting defensive towards those that have already been there and done that and can help you through it. If you ever do make it through this unnecessary but comical belligerent defensiveness, you'll see what I mean, and whether you admit or not, you will think to yourself "Goddammit, that motherfucker Greg was right".

 

[andrushkiwt]

Go back and read your posts, then read mine, and try again. Until you actually understand what's going on here I can't help you any further.

i read your original post twenty times already. believe me, i'm trying to find something useful in it that doesn't sound like a deep anger. again, there is a standard low-mid cut on the guitars, only one 1db boost at 13khz on the master, and very minimal compression. those are the things you mentioned, and i'm giving you the details of the settings for those things. at any time here you can chime in.

 

[andrushkiwt]

One more thing....your reactions tell me that you're in a very dangerous place....as far as experience and knowledge goes. You're not a complete clueless absolute beginner, but you don't have any practical useful experience either. You're in that new-hobby zone where you know just enough to be dangerous. Like a pilot that can take off but he cant land. You think you know stuff, but like I said, you don't know what you don't know. You clearly are not hearing things the way they are. \

and i agree with this...100%. so, i've been asking you to give me something useful. you're not the only one with a perspective here. from this seat, you are someone with the experience and knowledge to help others but he would rather just tell them it's practically garbage because they are using EQ and compression...come on man.

 

[Greg_L]

i read your original post twenty times already. believe me, i'm trying to find something useful in it that doesn't sound like a deep anger. again, there is a standard low-mid cut on the guitars, only one 1db boost at 13khz on the master, and very minimal compression. those are the things you mentioned, and i'm giving you the details of the settings for those things. at any time here you can chime in.

Okay great. Again.......undo all of that, and the other stuff you didn't list, start fresh, record better sounds if you can. Try again.

For example. Hear me out: Why is there a "standard" low-mid cut? WTF kind of shit is that? There's a problem. Not that you used a cut, but that you think it's fucking standard.

 

[Greg_L]

and i agree with this...100%. so, i've been asking you to give me something useful. you're not the only one with a perspective here. from this seat, you are someone with the experience and knowledge to help others but he would rather just tell them it's practically garbage because they are using EQ and compression...come on man.

You're totally hung up on the wrong things. I'm not the only one with a perspective, but you've focused your grief at me. So here we are.

 

[andrushkiwt]

You're totally hung up on the wrong things.

i tried. honestly, i did. haha, i don't think you understand how useless the majority of your comments are. they are condescending...not helpful. i'm starting to think you actually have no idea on how this mix could be improved... you have philosophies, but no real answers.

 

[Greg_L]

i tried. honestly, i did. haha, i don't think you understand how useless the majority of your comments are. they are condescending...not helpful. i'm starting to think you actually have no idea on how this mix could be improved... you have philosophies, but no real answers.

Would you like me to mix it for you? When I blow your fucking mind, will you apologize to me an STFU from here on out forever?

One of your many problems is that you're looking for "answers" instead of trying to learn how to do better. You want someone to say "cut here, this much, boost here, that much, compress to 1.21 jigawatts". It's not that simple.

 

[Robus]

I would like to hear Greg's mix. How about it?

 

[Greg_L]

I would like to hear Greg's mix. How about it?

You won't hear it. It will be just between him and me.

Why don't you take a shot at it too?

Put those tracks up for everyone to mix.

He could be right, it might need a shit-ton of EQ and compression because the tracking is bad. Or it might need very little. There's no way to tell from one bad mix where pretty much all of it is bad. Starting from ground-zero is a good thing IMO.

 

[andrushkiwt]

Would you like me to mix it for you? When I blow your fucking mind, will you apologize to me an STFU from here on out forever?

One of your many problems is that you're looking for "answers" instead of trying to learn how to do better. You want someone to say "cut here, this much, boost here, that much, compress to 1.21 jigawatts". It's not that simple.

lol. so angry greg, geez. told you it's bottled up in there somewhere. i don't want to take someone's specific settings - do you think i'm an idiot who can't use general settings to make it tailored to my own track? if you can't offer help, why are you here? to say "you suck" and leave? no place else to go? take it easy over there. let's just relax and call it a day here. lesson learned...next time i'll say "thank you greg for slamming my mix without any useful suggestions on how to help". later

 

[Greg_L]

lol. so angry greg, geez. told you it's bottled up in there somewhere. i don't want to take someone's specific settings - do you think i'm an idiot who can't use general settings to make it tailored to my own track? if you can't offer help, why are you here? to say "you suck" and leave? no place else to go? take it easy over there. let's just relax and call it a day here. lesson learned...next time i'll say "thank you greg for slamming my mix without any useful suggestions on how to help". later

Again with the defensive butthurt nonsense. You don't want help. You only want to be told what you want to hear. You and the other new clinic crusader sycophants have a good night.

 

[andrushkiwt]

Okay great. Again.......undo all of that, and the other stuff you didn't list, start fresh, record better sounds if you can. Try again.

For example. Hear me out: Why is there a "standard" low-mid cut? WTF kind of shit is that? There's a problem. Not that you used a cut, but that you think it's fucking standard.

just saw this one, and finally a legitimate comment. you are right, and i agree with you. if it was tracked better, i may not need a cut there - however, using 6 guitars will ultimately require a cut in those areas. it just builds too much. if you think i shouldn't use 6 guitars, then we are at the point where we branch into styles of music. It's difficult getting all those guitars to build a wall, but I am trying. it's not impossible, but i surely can use some help clearing it up. if you're going to get stuck on the use of that many guitars, then i just don't think you can help. again, i think your approach and tastes are different... i listen to 30seconds to mars and breaking benjamin - i don't think you would like how their million dollar production sounds. you like organic and raw, i like processed and somewhat electronic - it's just another avenue for me to get creative in and have fun with. but yes, i agree i should track better, so we have that! (ps i am using an Audiobox USB with 2 inputs into a laptop and the stock amp sim. i'm trying with what i've got - you know).

 

[Armistice]

Well, that escalated quickly....

I'm hearing that your bass ain't quite on the same groove as your drums in various spots - a tendency to lead in a bit ahead - more in the verses than the chorus. Have a close listen from about 0.40 to the chorus. And the bass notes are dying off really quickly - sounds a bit unnatural to me.

Bit over-reverbed on the lead vocal in the quiet bits for my tastes too. I'm only listening on headphones via the work PC, so can't give you much more than that.

Don't mind the song at all, for this genre, but that bass is driving me nuts, I'm afraid.

 

[kcearl]

well all the arguing made me listen lol

Im on my 770's and using a vrm as a grot box (studios off limits) but they do make some things stand out..firstly its a good solid song for its genre

the mix is, obviously, better in the quieter parts, the vox seem a bit bright to me but that could be the way theyre processed, I think theyd sit better drier.
The bass is a bit woolly/boomy but when the whole chorus comes in it gets crowded fast...Id maybe cut a couple of the guitar tracks out first and see what room that leaves you with.
Youve mentioned the cymbals but I think the kicks fighting with the bass and the snares getting lost in there. Id sidechain a bit of room, also maybe try a m/s EQ and cut everything on the sides to 50khz and see if that tightens up the low frequencies. I dont want to offend, and its maybe me projecting but this sounds pseudo mastered smashed..Id take everything of the master channel (if theres anything) or just stick up the clean mix with no attempts to give it any loudness or sheen..theres a good song in there but the mix is a bit brutal just now imo


I dont know your previous dealing with Greg, I know him personally, he's a great guy, and will improve your mixes if you can take the harsh critique (hes certainly not miserable)...I get that hes saying it might be best to zero this track and take a more measured approach in the mix (translation lol) sometimes things get overcooked very quickly...I bet it wouldnt take to much to improve this. hope this helped...