Having an Objective View of Your Abilities

I am my own worst critic...

If I'm being objective with myself, here are a few things I know for sure:
  • I have an above average ear. I can hear discrepancies within 5 cents of a pitch... This helps me tune my instruments and perform/sing with good intonation.
  • I have a decent idea of how to write music, as in I know chords and how to compose melodies. This came from an inherent musical sense (much like the ear) but also from a bit of schooling and independent research.
  • I'm only a decent instrumentalist. I can play guitar, keyboard, and a few other instruments at a mediocre level. However, this is acceptable because they accompany what is my best attribute, my voice (affirmed over the years by many people). Also, the style of music I write is of a folksy,singer/songwriter variety, so it works.
  • I am a strange lyricist...
  • I don't have aspirations of stardom. I have a decent idea of how an "indie" musician can sustain some novel success by building relationships with fans, performing regularly, and releasing new material.
  • In order to do the above, I need better demos. These demos would largely serve as a representation of my live sound to potential bookers, and if they are of good enough quality, could even serve as potential revenue (should I choose to monetize, which I will eventually).
All of this leads to the most humbling fact I can ascertain of myself... I am not so good at mixing and mastering. Also, when I choose to add too many instruments to a recording, my idea of the "topography" gets cloudy and muddled. I am getting booked locally at a modest rate (a few shows a month), but that's only because, by and large, people have seen me play live before, and they dig it. There's a lot to learn... But I'd be a fool not to use the resources available to me, such as this forum.
 
Within 5 cents! That is pretty accurate. Anyone else on here that accurate, just curious as that seems rather extraordinary.
 
DM60 said:
Within 5 cents! That is pretty accurate. Anyone else on here that accurate, just curious as that seems rather extraordinary.
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nah ...... i'm a piano tuner for 40 years now ..... 5 cents is an amount that anyone should be able to hear.

Now, it is true that nowadays there's plenty of 'musicians' that can't hear that .....but that's more an example of the abysmal level of general musicianship than anything else.
5 cents is pretty out of tune.
 
This thread is right up my alley. Everyday, life shows me what my limits are. I am just too stupid to quit.
:)

I was reading yet another book on home recording and it mentioned this forum, so I decided to join to learn more. I am a singer and guitar player and my recording and mixing skills stink. That is, as a recording person, I am a decent musician.

I have learned the hard way, both from study and actual foul-ups, that the most important part is getting a good sound in the initial recording. Mic, proximity, levels. If you get a good and quiet track with no clipping, the rest is mostly aesthetic choices. Whoever said "fix it in the mix" did a dis-service, I have found. You can always boost track volume after recording. But fixing clips and glitches is not only time-consuming but, in some cases, it will squash the dynamics, which are already reduced by recording into some medium.
 
An Objective View!!??!! bigshock.gif

Whaaaaa... and kill all the fun?

I've gotten this far without one, why start now?
 
I've been pondering this topic quite a bit.

I've been multi-tracking since '97, back when nobody I knew on the amateur level had such abilities. I never considered a formal education in music until recently, finally admitting to myself that I need to jump-start my potential of doing anything professional. I always assumed that the experience would happen naturally - I'd be recording demo's with my band(s) and get better and better. Well, bands have been few and far between for me and I'm just not the sort of songwriter that can spearhead a band of my own. That's not to say I don't write a lot of music. I write and record quite a bit on my own, but the experience of putting together several songs(let alone a full album) into a project in which they need to share production quality and flow from one to another and be intended for commercial release... has eluded me.

It goes without saying that professionals gain experience by being amateurs, but at what point do I tell myself I'm good enough to offer my services to artists expecting to get their money's worth? I'm certainly not the type to buy a bunch of impressive gear and deck my place out to look like a real studio and then sell myself on it. I'd rather say "Hey, this is what I can do. If it fits your needs, then we should work together."

Does this business model work?
 
I think it would work only on a amateur level. There's a movie on Netflix called Artifact and it goes through a higher level band/recording/contract hell....and the big money still tends to use the bigger places/bigger faces.

What youre describing is a recording studio (maybe portable) to record demo's and would only be made a "buzz on the street" if you had the Beatles or some meteoric band take off that mentioned your studio in the press, which generally causes a stir of the follower-copycats wanting the "same sound". Like SUN records or something...or Gold Star.

With that said, I know of a guy recording small time- local and not having to work a real job, by recording a lot of bands at $200 total-completion. He has a good combination of recording/mastering skills and sales/business skills.

I tried recording local bands and there wasnt much money and all the live bar gig-reocrding sessions I spent the money I made on beer.
 
Supercreep said:
This thread may not be directed to you, so grains of salt are recommended.
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On the other hand, if you are one of those who have a tin ear and don't know it, or you show up for open mic night and can't understand why no one "Gets You" and you spend all your time in the make shift studio you put together? Who am I to rain on your parade? Why should I be the one who ruins it for you when you don't have any talent? If the salesman at Guitar Center can tap you for a commission for 15 to 20 years following "The Sound" you have in your head that you can't seem to get recorded? You are what the most profitable aspect of the music industry is built upon along with several reality shows. And if attempting to write is what makes you happy? Then immerse yourself in your art.

Or you can be one of those tormented souls that does have talent, has had a chance to have done something real and has watched themselves become a has been, just like everyone will one day become a has been. We all have our time to shine and there is nothing as pathetic as an old rocker trying to revive the glory days.

Let the youth have a go at it. Let them enjoy it while they can. Everyone gets a chance to dance and make a fool of themselves. Why should I be a discouragement to them? I have watched many a musician become a bitter version of themselves. They are like old Pugilists who had a few good fights and now they see their entire life behind them. I have recently gotten back into music and when I started looking around after about 13 years of being out of it I found out that many of my former band mates are dead.

"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."

Give it Hell boys. We only live for a little while and the relentless clock never stops.
 
Hi obsoleteman -

Reading your comment, I wonder if perhaps you didn't misunderstand my advice.

obsoleteman said:
On the other hand, if you are one of those who have a tin ear and don't know it, or you show up for open mic night and can't understand why no one "Gets You" and you spend all your time in the make shift studio you put together? Who am I to rain on your parade? Why should I be the one who ruins it for you when you don't have any talent? If the salesman at Guitar Center can tap you for a commission for 15 to 20 years following "The Sound" you have in your head that you can't seem to get recorded? You are what the most profitable aspect of the music industry is built upon along with several reality shows. And if attempting to write is what makes you happy? Then immerse yourself in your art.
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I don't think I am raining on anybody's parade. I am definitely not ruining anything, and don't think it is your responsibility to ruin or rain on anyone. By definition, self-awareness cannot be imposed on someone. It is literally not possible. :shrugs:

obsoleteman said:
And if attempting to write is what makes you happy? Then immerse yourself in your art.
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There is nobody here, as far as I am aware, that disagrees with that.

obsoleteman said:
Or you can be one of those tormented souls that does have talent, has had a chance to have done something real and has watched themselves become a has been, just like everyone will one day become a has been. We all have our time to shine and there is nothing as pathetic as an old rocker trying to revive the glory days.
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See, I don't see my life in music like that. I reject the notion that someone doing something they love is pathetic or in any way a waste of time. I humbly submit that our time to shine is while we are alive, and that the value of music transcends the cheap and tawdry mechanisms through which it is (and rather poignantly which it is not) monetized. Perhaps we disagree.

obsoleteman said:
Let the youth have a go at it. Let them enjoy it while they can. Everyone gets a chance to dance and make a fool of themselves. Why should I be a discouragement to them? I have watched many a musician become a bitter version of themselves. They are like old Pugilists who had a few good fights and now they see their entire life behind them. I have recently gotten back into music and when I started looking around after about 13 years of being out of it I found out that many of my former band mates are dead.
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The youthful and exuberant masses should ignore the advice of old rockers like me? Is that what you mean? :D

It's always a sobering and unpleasant experience to have somebody tell you you're too old to play, but it's really pretty silly. Somebody has to buy the nice gear, right?

Also, I make MUCH better music today than I did when I was "in my prime". How is this possible?

Unlike your friends who have passed on, there is nothing at all obsolete about you.
 
Ok. Let me take another stab at this. #1. Ain't no one accusing you personally of a dammed thing. #2 Musicians take themselves WAY too seriously, as you just did. You made it all about you, just like so many musician types do. Face it, most musicians are far too selfish with their talent. They insist on their way or the highway and watch decent band just crumble to the ground. But as long as they are far enough away when it happens, that is alright, there is always the next project and that will be enough until the new wears off and we become aware that it is no longer about us. We can't stand the lead singer so we bail. #3 I don't have time to argue with you. Like so many musicians you will no doubt start with the credentials and accolades...And I really don't care because I know the recording industry was ruined a long time ago and the chance of making any money at it has pretty well been shot in the ass. So by all means, write and record music! I'm not discouraging you. So why start an argument with me? Maybe you should spend more time writing and less time arguing.

Dude, I don't know you from Adam. But I have spent a lifetime dealing with musicians. And for the most part, they are their own worst enemy. The same ego that drove them to become talented also becomes the reason they never get anywhere with it. There are millions of talented people out there, you and I are just a drop of water in the ocean of talent. No reason to get offended...unless you are just one of those who want to argue. If you are then I will take my leave of this forum and you can have your little collection of insiders. And that is usually what these forums come down to is a handful of posters who want it all to themselves.

So now it is time for you to get indignant. Me? I gotta go to work. I have a mortgage, taxes and bills to pay. My days of sitting around on my ass playing a couple of gigs a week are over. I had to grow up and go to work. I stopped playing publicly when I was 46. I looked up and saw the end not too far down the road. I'll be 60 in January and have no need to argue with people like you.
 
Doesn't have to be that way.
I've been full time gigger for 46 years and I'm paying a mortgage with the income so you can do it as a profession although you have to work your ass off!

I'm also not bitter or grumpy about it but I know what you're talking about ..... I see guys my age (64 ) that are bitter about not 'making it' whatever that may mean to them.
But for me all I ever wanted was to play and for me it's the act of playing that brings me happiness and I still love playing as much now as when I started.
I look forward to every gig .... even the crappiest and even though I often gig 6 or 7 night s a week, i'll go on my night off or after finishing a gig and sit-in with bands 'cause I never get enough.

Yes, that's not usually the norm but I just wanted to speak up and point out that it is possible, even if difficult, to pay your bill by gigging and it is possible to get old but not get bitter and angry.
 
I think my biggest weakness is not having enough patience. Not having patience to get the guitar tone right....
not having patience enough to get the tempo perfect before tracking...
not having patience to tweak the arrangement before recording....
Not having patience to listen to mixes in several systems and tweak tweak tweak before putting a song out there to be heard by all.

the lack of patience has caused me to make very flawed recordings in the past and also, to post flawed mixes of good recordings. I have tried to dicipline myself to have patience and I'm winning the battle! I have some recordings I'm working on now that I think will be some of the best recordings I have produced. Having patience pays off.

Advice to people new to this hobby.
Have paitence!
Don't make the mistakes I have made like:
recording before you even know how to make a tempo grid and click track on your DAW...
Recording an out of tune instrument because you were in a hurry...

Spend wasted time trying to "fix" clipped drum tracks and timing issues ...because you wanted to get drums down on 5 songs instead of one in your last session.

having the paitence to slow down and take you time will save you so much time it's unreal.
Ironic huh, but it's true.
anyway, that's my 2 cents
 
To the guy saying there is nothing as pathetic as an old rocker trying to revive the glory days....

Sure there is. There are a lot of things more pathetic than that.

An old rocker who quits playing because of what young punks think or say about him is more pathetic...

A young person who doesn't honor, respect, and celebrate the older rockers who paved the way for them is more pathetic...

Old people who wanted to rock, but never learn how and now regret that is more pathetic....

young people who can't play themselves but ridicule an old rocker are probably the most pathetic of all.
 
Supercreep said:
This thread may not be directed to you, so grains of salt are recommended.

Gear is nice. Having the right bit of kit for the right project is of supreme importance - whether it's a mic, a guitar, or a cymbal.

Having a well-treated room is important, too. A well-treated room is going to sound more open and balanced than an untreated one. Money spent on room treatment is generally money well-spent.

Now for the rub: If you have a tin ear, none of this is going to help you turn around a decent product.

If you don't have an ear for pitch, and your instruments are out of tune with themselves and other instruments, your recordings will suffer.

If you are a "producer", and don't have a knack for arrangement, or understand how to incorporate space and silence into an piece, your client's recordings will suffer.

If you are a musician in a band, and you lack the ability to transpose chords, use different inversions, or envision and arrange your parts as pieces of an ensemble, your recordings will suffer.

Before you spend a fortune on things that will expose and highlight deficiencies in your technique and approach, work on identifying deficiencies in your technique and approach. That is, put the horse in front of the cart.

With all of that said, you are in the right place to learn, and the world is full of internet know-it-alls just like me.

Jump in and make it happen.
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:eek: Oh no say it ain't true Jackson !!
Ha Ha I am only kidding , that is very fine advice :)
 
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