Set up mixer to record with PC.

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tercept

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Hi people,

First of all, yeah, I know this have been asked in a multitud of threads around the internet. But I have read several of those, and none works with my gear.

That being said, let's go to my problem:

I have a Behringer Eurorack UB222FX-PRO, and I'm been all day trying to hook it to my M-Audio Audiophile 2496 in order to record guitar and, maybe, bass and monitor this trough my headphones. I tried connecting the TAPE OUT to the IN of the card, and then the OUT of the card to the TAPE IN of the mixer, no results. Also tried connecting the direct out of the line in which my guitar is plugged, to the IN of the card; and then the OUT of the card to the TAPE IN of the mixer, this kinda works, but it puts on a lot of noise.

So, to make it short, how can I plug the mixer to the card, and monitor the recording through my headphones?

Thanks in advance.

P.S: Yeah, I know what you're thinking "You could do the same with a guitar USB interface! And save yourself the headache". The thing is I already had the mixer, I just bought the Audiophile second hand.
 
tercept said:
An eletric guitar plugged to the line in of the mixer.
Click to expand...

Electric guitars aren't line level instruments, and are hi-z. You're going to have to connect it to a Hi-Z instrument level input for starters, not a line level one.
 
MrWrenchey said:
Electric guitars aren't line level instruments, and are hi-z. You're going to have to connect it to a Hi-Z instrument level input for starters, not a line level one.
Click to expand...

Noted. Thanks for the clarification.
 
arcaxis said:
I had a 2496 installed in a computer a few years ago and I remember having some difficulty getting things routed within the computer to get the inputs to loop back out to the outs. First of all do you have the Delta control software installed which allows setting up of the routing as well as some other parameters of 2496? The control software for me wasn't very intuitive as to how to set it up and sometimes it seemed like luck that I got things to work. I have a foggy recollection that I couldn't get the 2496 to play well with Audacity, but Reaper had a way to enable monitoring of the recorded tracks along with the inputs that Audacity couldn't seem to do. The 2496 is capable of full duplex play and record, so it's just a matter of getting the DAW software to play with the 2496 nicely.

I think ecc83 (Dave) has a bunch of experience with the 2496, so hopefully he'll see this post and lend some ideas.

The manual for the 2496 if you don't have it....
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/media/i3d/01/A/man-migrate/MANUAL000018747.pdf
Click to expand...

Hi, thanks for your reply!

And yeah, I have the M-Audio control panel installed. But I can't manage to get it to work with the mixer.
 
Phew! Quite a mixer!
Now there will be many peeps come in and a say "FFS get an interface!" Do not listen to them.
I will agree that HAD you not already got this rig I would not have advised it but you can be sure that it is every bit as good as most interfaces and vastly more flexible than anything under $500. But first some basics.

Are you sure you have identified the inputs and outputs on the 2496 correctly? Not easy to see when installed, check manual.
Find a radio programme or youTube track and play it. Do you get the green bars running in the mixer as per the attachment? If not check in Device Manager that the card is installed and enabled (no yellow "!") . If it isn't that is a side issue we must deal with. We shall assume all is tickerty boo! If you still do not get the meters running (all faders to max as shown) you will need to go into the Windows Sound Menus and set the card as Default, then check "levels" push to 100%. Ok! Got greenness? Now plug the 2496 RCA out into the mixer RCA tape/cd inputs. Plug in headphones and you should get sound. Ok? Nearly 1/2 way there! Try various positions of the two monitor buttons.

Keep the cans on and plug in guitar to line input One. (yes, not optimum but will work) Leave channel fader at "0" and gain about 1/2 way and dick about with the monitoring buttons again. At some point you should get the guitar. Assuming this is so, connect Tape out to 2496 line in, the guitar should blip the 2496 meters. The beauty of this "card/mixer" method is that you do not have the confusion of a DAW, setting tracks etc. The soundcard will accept and repro signals all on its tod.

So try all of this and if you are stuck at any point come back and I will deal with specific issues. Getting the system setup for the first time can be daunting but once done it will be FAR more stable than most AIs (save the KA6 of course!) and, despite its age, the 2496 still delivers excellent sound quality and lower latency than almost any other sub$500 AI (save the Ka6 OF COURSE!) .

If things get really sticky PM me (I SHALL report back, Promise mods!)

Dave.
 

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Okay, if it was me, I'd:

(and, no, I'm not saying buy an interface...you have one!)

-Get a DI to allow you to plug your guitar into one of the mic inputs

-Forget the tape in/outs. Instead, get a pair if RCA to quarter inch adaptors and feed the 2496 back into one of the mixer Line inputs.

-Feed either the main L/R outs or selected Bus outs into the 2496 for recording.

-Get ecc83 to sort out routing the playback from your computer back into those Line inputs.

-Set Aux 1 and Aux 2 to the "pre fade" option on your mic and guitar channels and pick one to be your headphone monitor send.

-For recording, select the "Solo" option on the Aux send you're using, plug your 'phones into the mixer and use the channel Aux send knobs to create a mix you like between pre recorded stuff, your mic and your guitar. This will create your headphone mix in the mixer, avoiding a lot of 2496 set up issues and latency risks. Make sure the fader for the computer return is down to avoid creating a loop.

-When you want to playback what you've recorded, just release the solo and bring up the fader for the computer output.

FYI, this is a small scale version of exactly how a big studio with a ten foot long mixer would be working...the pre fade Auxes are used to create the monitor mix(es).
 
"-Forget the tape in/outs. Instead, get a pair if RCA to quarter inch adaptors and feed the 2496 back into one of the mixer Line inputs.

-Feed either the main L/R outs or selected Bus outs into the 2496 for recording."

Hi Bobbs,.

Now, OP, Bobbsy knows infinitely more about the use of "pro" mixers than I but in this particular case I think he is wrong (for now*)

The 2496 is a great card but it is a "prosumer" soundcard and has a maximum input of +2dBV which is as close to 0dBu as never mind.
The mixer OPERATES at 0dBu (which needs therefore to be at about -18dBFS in any DAW) and has a maximum output of +22bBu from most outputs (I suspect and hope the Tape I/O is attenuated to -10dBV but the diagram does not show it) .

If you run from the full level main outs the mixer's meters will be useless, bumbling about at neg 20 and you will probably find fader "throw" is restricted.
Also, the main TRS outs appear to be properly electronically balanced and plugging in a TS plug will short one side of the drive.SHOULD do no harm but best avoided.

My idea Bob is to make haste slowly and for the OP to K.I.S.Sir. Once he has any sort of sounds going both ways we, mainly you, can get cuter?

I have also had a bit of a re think lately about plugging guitars into a low impedance input. The main problem is loss of level, usually about 6dB or more but also a treble cut. However top chop is one of the main effects of "emulated outputs" and where a guitar is to be used with wide band speakers is often no bad thing.

*The inputs to the 2496 can be fitted with passive attenuators to allow it to handle higher levels. I did this so that my (close to!) pro A&H zed 10meters would agree with the card's meters and any DAW in use (I am a bit anal about such things!). But Son did not like the arrangement and since he is the musician, we went back to ignoring the zed's LEDS!

The mixer has built in effects and reading the manual a bit it seems that they can be used to "sweeten" the monitor signal but allow "dry" recording? This is a facility you will only finds on quite expensive interfaces.
The mixer also has direct outs so multitrack recording is possible in the future.

Dave.
 
Hi there!,

Thanks a lot for your answers. I shall try those (maybe tomorrow, I don't think I'll have time to do it today) and get back to you with the results.
 
tercept said:
Hi there!,

Thanks a lot for your answers. I shall try those (maybe tomorrow, I don't think I'll have time to do it today) and get back to you with the results.
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OKADOKEY. I apologise for the rather heavy amount of "decibabble" and technical stuff in my last post. Going for a mixer/card system IS a bit more technical than the basic plug n play (if you are lucky!) of a basic AI but even with the AI route you will need to learn at least some of this stuff eventually if you are to progress.

Try to be as methodical as you can when you get back on the kit both in what you do and how you present the findings. In fact, taking a measured approach to these problems and having to explain them often helps you come up with your own solution! Vastly better for YOU to have a "light bulb over the head" moment than we telling you everything.

Can I just ask? How are you with basic electronics and do you own a test meter or solder iron?
Dave.
 
Dave is, of course, entirely right in the ideal world. It's a bad idea to mix up prosumer and professional levels.

Alas, in that pesky real world, I'm asked to do just that 10 times a day and, frankly, you can generally just play with levels and make it work.

My reason for saying "ignore the tape in and outs" is that the routing options on those are so limited that you'll be missing 90% of the reasons for actually having a mixer and trying to do simple things in a complicated way in the 2496 and software.
 
Bobbsy said:
Dave is, of course, entirely right in the ideal world. It's a bad idea to mix up prosumer and professional levels.

Alas, in that pesky real world, I'm asked to do just that 10 times a day and, frankly, you can generally just play with levels and make it work.

My reason for saying "ignore the tape in and outs" is that the routing options on those are so limited that you'll be missing 90% of the reasons for actually having a mixer and trying to do simple things in a complicated way in the 2496 and software.
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Agreed Bob. I just want the OP to get signals going in and out. He has the rest of his life to play with the mixer and looking at the book it will take a fair chunk of it!

Yes, we all have to cope with various signal levels (but back in the day when valve and transistor domestic kit was involved you don't know the half!) . You and I and the vast majority here will have developed a "nose" for getting gain staging right but it seems the instinct has to be learned.

Dave.
 
Hi there!,

I've tried Dave's advises. All went well until this part:

ecc83 said:
Keep the cans on and plug in guitar to line input One. (yes, not optimum but will work) Leave channel fader at "0" and gain about 1/2 way and dick about with the monitoring buttons again. At some point you should get the guitar. Assuming this is so, connect Tape out to 2496 line in, the guitar should blip the 2496 meters.
Click to expand...

The only thing I get out from the mixer is noise. Maybe is something wrong with the tape outs? Also tried messing arond with the mixer's solo, main and source buttons, but that thing is confusing. Still, nothing but that noise.

ecc83 said:
Can I just ask? How are you with basic electronics and do you own a test meter or solder iron?
Click to expand...

Oops, you got me there! I'm a total noob with that stuff. But I know a guy who is an electrical engineer, I could give him a shout and he'll help me out. Why are you asking?

Greetings!
 
Holy cow, I don't know what button I pressed this time, but it worked!

Thanks a lot for you help, guys. You were extremely helpful.

Just a couple of extra questions:

1) I have a Digitech RP155 pedal. Could I use that to record stereo? With its left and out connected to the mixer? In the Digitech's manual is a setup like that.
2) I'm getting background noise through the headphones. What could it be?

Greetings.
 
"When I had the 2496 in my PC I had a set of RCA cables semi-permanently connected which I labeled IN and OUT with a couple of paper string tags so I could easily tell what was what rather than crawl behind the PC. Easy to screw up what you think is in an out without a close look at the card."

Hah! I have the conns' Dymo'ed to the back of each computer! Then, I got SO fed up fishing about for wires that I built the "breakout" box* shown in the hastily grabbed photo attached.

You ask, new friend, "Why soldering and such?" Because even if you do go the "easy" route in this recording game you will always, eventually run up against a problem that needs a special cable or! The XLR plug will drop off the mic lead at 2 am on a Sunday morning.
The box in the photo is simply 6 TRS jacks wired down to RCA plugs for the cards. Marked "Old and "Star" because those are the names of the computers they routed to. Changed a bit now but I know the system so well now I don't need the labels.

The boxes are beer into water to make. Just drilling and soldering and the ability to follow a simple diagram.

*I am a bit obsessive! Got b.o. boxes for MIDI and S/PDIF.

Dave.
 

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Well, I guess it wouln't hurt learning some basic electronics. And I'm totally doing the IN/OUTS identification, as arcaxis says. Still, any ideas about that background noise?

Greetings!
 
tercept said:
Holy cow, I don't know what button I pressed this time, but it worked!

Thanks a lot for you help, guys. You were extremely helpful.

Just a couple of extra questions:

1) I have a Digitech RP155 pedal. Could I use that to record stereo? With its left and out connected to the mixer? In the Digitech's manual is a setup like that.
2) I'm getting background noise through the headphones. What could it be?

Greetings.
Click to expand...

The RP155 could indeed be very useful! It will serve you well as a high impedance buffer as has been discussed and yes, left and right go to chans' 1 and 2 on the mixer but do not forget to pan 1 to hard left and 2 to hard right otherwise you will get mono!

The RP will also perform as a basic audio interface with the computer . Don't worry! The 2496 card will not mind in the least, do it ALL the time! You will just set the default AI you want in Windows (actually rarely even that. Most DAW software overrides this and allows you to select in the DAW. Don't know if the 155 runs "ASIO" drivers but use those if it does.

N very B! If you do intend to connect the FX pedal to PC..DON'T do it yet! Go to the website and download all the drivers and software plus any and all notes and instructions. USB kit of every kind has its foibles of installation. ALWAYS follow the instructions to the letter. In fact NOW! Set a Restore point on your PC. Call it DAVE SAID!

Forgot! Hiss! Make sure every gain control and every channel fader on the mixer is at minimum when that channel is not in use. You MIGHT has one noisy channel but most likely you have not got the gain staging optimized yet. Live with it for now and we will get back to it.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
The RP will also perform as a basic audio interface with the computer.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it runs ASIO. In fact, that's what I've using as interface. I bought the M-Audio card to take advantage of the mixer and because the card gives 96Khz audio at a cheap price.

Well, I'll mess around with the mixer's gain to see if I get rid of that noise. Also, I have to give it a good clean up, it has a lot of dust.

Again, thanks a lot for your help, guys!
 
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