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Daniel J
New member
The main thought was for vocals, but I was thinking of acoustic guitar if I can get it to sound right. Will the bass traps shown in the video (above) work for a room like this? Floor to ceiling?
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
Again, sorry for the redundancy, but EVERY room will benefit from/and will likely sound like shit, unless worthy bass traps are placed in the room.
Especially when the room is small in size.
It seems as if you have been doing some research. Keep on that path man.
The only way for you to realize the importance of this is to do it.
How many Youtube or any threads for that matter have ever stated that proper acoustic absorption/bass traps were not effective? There are none because it is what every room needs. Are there shortcuts? Yeah, read the 1000000 half assed attempts at trying with blankets and pillows...
Ignore most of what you read, unless it comes from a forum like this.
There are professionals who spend their time giving the real advice here.
And just so you know, if poor advice is ever given on this site, it will be shot down almost immediately by the many knowledgeable members here.
You can feel safe in knowing that anything you read on the 'stickies' here has been proven or at least 'not' false information.
Again, why the hell would you wish to record anything like a acoustic guitar in an isolation/ish room?
Treat your control/main room and forget about the isolation room until you have a reason to use it.
Sorry, but I guess I just do not understand what you are trying to achieve.
You really should describe your intentions.
I actually feel bad for not asking that of you yet...
SELF
Especially when the room is small in size.
It seems as if you have been doing some research. Keep on that path man.
The only way for you to realize the importance of this is to do it.
How many Youtube or any threads for that matter have ever stated that proper acoustic absorption/bass traps were not effective? There are none because it is what every room needs. Are there shortcuts? Yeah, read the 1000000 half assed attempts at trying with blankets and pillows...
Ignore most of what you read, unless it comes from a forum like this.
There are professionals who spend their time giving the real advice here.
And just so you know, if poor advice is ever given on this site, it will be shot down almost immediately by the many knowledgeable members here.
You can feel safe in knowing that anything you read on the 'stickies' here has been proven or at least 'not' false information.
Again, why the hell would you wish to record anything like a acoustic guitar in an isolation/ish room?
Treat your control/main room and forget about the isolation room until you have a reason to use it.
Sorry, but I guess I just do not understand what you are trying to achieve.
You really should describe your intentions.
I actually feel bad for not asking that of you yet...
SELF
Mr Clean
AKA Teddy Wong
When Iso room was mentioned I thought he'd finally got it and planned a room for Amp isolation but then went back to climbing in there to do vocals and guitar.
I think he should build a little room under the stairs. It will be ideal for storing all the crap (guitar cases, drum cases, amps) and stuff that will eat up space in the main room.
As for going in there to sing and play guitar? You may as well go in a wardrobe/closet that already exists in the house. Seriously, forget that idea. You're pissing in the wind and you'll only end up with pissy shoes.
I think he should build a little room under the stairs. It will be ideal for storing all the crap (guitar cases, drum cases, amps) and stuff that will eat up space in the main room.
As for going in there to sing and play guitar? You may as well go in a wardrobe/closet that already exists in the house. Seriously, forget that idea. You're pissing in the wind and you'll only end up with pissy shoes.
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
Agreed.
By the way, That robot mic stand prototype thing is almost completed.
Will have better things to work on soon!
@Daniel J,
Listen to us man. We are only trying to give advice based upon our own experience and failures in making shit work best.
R
RAMI
Guest
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Daniel J
New member
Ignore most of what you read, unless it comes from a forum like this.
There are professionals who spend their time giving the real advice here.
SELF
Thanks for this. This has been a big part of the problem- I'm finding conflicting information from different sources and have been having a hard time knowing what information to go off of. I'll stick to this forum from now on. My goal is to record several instruments at once and want some isolation between the instruments. In a previous post, it sounded like I was getting closer to being on the right track (bigger room, bass traps in the corners) but now it sounds like I'm still making a mistake. I'm open to advice of how to go about recording with some isolation between instruments/vocals. As I mentioned, I have bigger space options available. Is that what I'm looking for? A bigger room? Thanks for all of the help! You guys may end up saving me a lot of time, money and helping me make my stuff sound better. I'm glad I found the forum!
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Daniel J
New member
Are you saying a room like this could serve a purpose? (amp isolation) or would I be better off scrapping the project all together? I'm glad that I found this forum! Looking forward to hearing more thoughts!
mjbphotos
Moderator
You won't get amp isolation unless you double-wall it, etc. DO what Mr Clean suggested - make it a storage closet!
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
If you are planning on recording guitars, I would say that you will benefit from a isolation room of sort.
It is really tough to judge the sound you are recording with an amp cranked up in your control room. They sound the best mic'd at high volume. Of course that really depends on the genre and type of guitar tone you are working with.
I have a remote control mic stand on the way so I can find the sweet spot without killing my ears in the room with the cabinet. I am friggen exited about that!
I would not use the room for vocals in any way myself.
Some use isolation boxes for recording a guitar speaker, but that is a whole other topic.
What style of music are you planning to record?
Mr Clean
AKA Teddy Wong
What Jimmy is talking about is what I thought you were planning on using the room for. Amping up guitars, bass, etc. That could be of use and could also double as a good storage room for all the stuff you don't want clogging up your main room.
D
Daniel J
New member
Jimmy69,
Your advice has been really constructive and helpful. I'd definitely like to find a way to record acoustic guitar and vocals with some isolation from other instruments playing at the same time, but it sounds like it may not be possible/practical if I'm wanting to make it sound good
The style of music will be up-beat- drums, guitar (sometimes electric, sometimes acoustic), bass and vocals with the occasional piano and or keyboard/synth. Thanks again for the help!
---------- Update ----------
Ah! I understand better now. Sorry- I did not communicate my intentions well from the beginning. I feel like I'm getting somewhere now. Thanks for clarifying!
Your advice has been really constructive and helpful. I'd definitely like to find a way to record acoustic guitar and vocals with some isolation from other instruments playing at the same time, but it sounds like it may not be possible/practical if I'm wanting to make it sound good
The style of music will be up-beat- drums, guitar (sometimes electric, sometimes acoustic), bass and vocals with the occasional piano and or keyboard/synth. Thanks again for the help!
---------- Update ----------
Ah! I understand better now. Sorry- I did not communicate my intentions well from the beginning. I feel like I'm getting somewhere now. Thanks for clarifying!
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
Acoustic guitar will be much like vocals. You want the biggest 'acoustically treated' room possible. That would be your control room.
In layman's terms and a vague example, grab yourself a cardboard box. Speak into it. What does it sound like? This is the effect that you will have with even a 5' x 7' room if not treated heavily.
The goal is to stop that from happening.
Bass traps will help to stop the standing waves from creating peaks and nulls from interfering with what is really happening.
Sound is much like water. Think 'Jurassic Park'. When the T-Rex is moving towards the car, the glass of water on the dashboard shows a ripple effect. The same with audio.
When the sound bounces off the walls and meets in the center, it will either meet the other reflections by enhancing them, or if out of phase, cancel them.
This is why a larger room is better. You have the ability in a larger space to 'absorb' some of that energy before it becomes an issue.
Trust me man, even if my analogy is a bit fucked, you will soon learn what room treatment does once you build/or install them. Best investment I ever made as far as recording.
Large rooms are always better. Sometimes isolation in limited spaces is also a need. Balance of what sounds best and how you can hear it is something we have to deal with when we don't have a million dollar studio.
Spend money wisely to make the best of what you have.
In layman's terms and a vague example, grab yourself a cardboard box. Speak into it. What does it sound like? This is the effect that you will have with even a 5' x 7' room if not treated heavily.
The goal is to stop that from happening.
Bass traps will help to stop the standing waves from creating peaks and nulls from interfering with what is really happening.
Sound is much like water. Think 'Jurassic Park'. When the T-Rex is moving towards the car, the glass of water on the dashboard shows a ripple effect. The same with audio.
When the sound bounces off the walls and meets in the center, it will either meet the other reflections by enhancing them, or if out of phase, cancel them.
This is why a larger room is better. You have the ability in a larger space to 'absorb' some of that energy before it becomes an issue.
Trust me man, even if my analogy is a bit fucked, you will soon learn what room treatment does once you build/or install them. Best investment I ever made as far as recording.
Large rooms are always better. Sometimes isolation in limited spaces is also a need. Balance of what sounds best and how you can hear it is something we have to deal with when we don't have a million dollar studio.
Spend money wisely to make the best of what you have.
D
Daniel J
New member
Very very helpful! I should mention too that I did quite a bit of "research" before this idea came to be, but it turns out all the research was probably in the wrong places! I was under the impression from various sources I read that it's best to record acoustic instruments (guitar, piano, vocals etc) "dead" so you have maximum control of the sound in post production (reverb, chorus etc.) Is there any truth to this? It sounds like I should put my time, money and energy into making my control room sound awesome and record as much as possible in there. As for isolation, this is still a goal- the "under the stairs" space is completely open right now (other than the actual nook under the staircase- the rest of the room is quite large- bigger than my "control room." It's currently unfinished. I wonder if this has any potential? If not, I'll stick to recording one instrument at a time. Thanks again!
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
The problem with the 'dead' room theory, is that it still takes tons of room treatment to get there. So many on the internet and a couple guys that have studios in my area think that a bunch of foam on the walls makes that happen. Yeah, you feel like you can hear yourself breathe but the low end is completely fucked. Then they spend hours trying to impossibly fix issues that could have been dealt with correctly to begin with.
Another room that is bigger than your control room is open? Hell yeah man, treat that a bit and make it your isolation room.
I now have a 15x35' control room, a 25x15' drum room, and a 15x12' guitar room (approximate measurements). Having the ability to choose which treated room to use makes a huge difference.
If you are serious about this, use the largest spaces you can and spend the money where actually needed.
Another room that is bigger than your control room is open? Hell yeah man, treat that a bit and make it your isolation room.
I now have a 15x35' control room, a 25x15' drum room, and a 15x12' guitar room (approximate measurements). Having the ability to choose which treated room to use makes a huge difference.
If you are serious about this, use the largest spaces you can and spend the money where actually needed.
D
Daniel J
New member
I can't express how helpful this has been! My Dad was going to help me build this "isolation room." since he's got the building skills. I told him about the advice I've been getting on the forum and that I've been basically talked out of the idea because it will sound like "singing in a closet" and he said "yeah, they are probably right!"
So... we're going to think this through and come up with a "plan b" for recording. I'm relieved that I have some time to explore (we were about ready to start building!) and learn! My basement is at least 50% unfinished, so.... lot's of time to think and come up with some ideas. Thanks again!
So... we're going to think this through and come up with a "plan b" for recording. I'm relieved that I have some time to explore (we were about ready to start building!) and learn! My basement is at least 50% unfinished, so.... lot's of time to think and come up with some ideas. Thanks again!
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
Good to hear man.
It is best to be patient and learn as much as possible before wasting money and time.
There are many of us here who have been through all of the things you are talking about, and have learned from our mistakes. Learn from ours and realize that there are people here that actually give a shit and will not steer you wrong.
Much of what you will be building and acoustic treatment of such, will be a personal thing and up to you to decide what you like for your particular recordings. The basics like bass traps in corners or first reflection point absorption in control room will never change. ALL SMALL ROOMS NEED THIS! Was that loud enough? lol!
Best to you and give your Dad a hand shake for me. Wish I had one to help me out.
Peace,
Jimmy
It is best to be patient and learn as much as possible before wasting money and time.
There are many of us here who have been through all of the things you are talking about, and have learned from our mistakes. Learn from ours and realize that there are people here that actually give a shit and will not steer you wrong.
Much of what you will be building and acoustic treatment of such, will be a personal thing and up to you to decide what you like for your particular recordings. The basics like bass traps in corners or first reflection point absorption in control room will never change. ALL SMALL ROOMS NEED THIS! Was that loud enough? lol!
Best to you and give your Dad a hand shake for me. Wish I had one to help me out.
Peace,
Jimmy